Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Hellcat]

The other goalie on the Soo with Campbell and Murray.

LOL ... beauty

 

[saltming]

Goalies are impossible to predict but when you suck as bad as Murray has since he arrived in Ottawa I think you can pretty much predict what we got in him, he will be the reason why we are in a dog fight for a playoff spot with Ottawa. Samsonov if healthy will be our #1 come playoffs. This is if we make the playoffs. The Sens are significantly better than last year, their talent level has gone up significantly and they play a harder game than the Leafs.



While I agree with you, mostly. A cup contender should not have "potential" in net. They should have a for sure thing.

Agreed but that's a perfect world. All we have are dice throws.
That said I am more comfortable with Sanford as the goalie coach and I'm expecting to see some reward for that move this season be it with or Murray or samsonov

 

[Leaf Fans]

Those 2 cup wins were in the last decade and there are a lot of first round picks working in the lumber section at Home Depot.

Which ones are working in the Lumber section at Home Depot? Samsonov is not one of them. As for Murray, he is still a two time Cup winner. Only two goalies have won a Cup this decade.

 

[Mess]

We have a 2 time Cup winner and a 2015 first round pick as a backup in net.

You do realize this is the 2022-23 upcoming season and those Cups are from 2016 & 2017 with that 2015 1st rounder?

You really don't believe in "what have you done for me lately" but prefer to live in past.

Curious if you also believe a player that has been on Cup winning team in the past, has any greater guarantee to be on a future Cup winning team as a result of that?

I don't mean to spoil the party, but there is Zero guarantee a former Cup winning player repeats that success, any more than a player never have won it previously the odds are the exact same. History is history, and the present is not the past. I hope you're not hanging your hat on the belief that increases Leafs odds, based on the Pens results of 2017.

PS. 2016 was a great year .. Leafs were finishing dead last overall, winning the draft lottery and Lou Lam was the GM and was drafting Auston Matthews #1OA. A lot has changed since then, come on into 2022 and join the rest of us.

 

[Zybalto]

Goalie kind of an important position, don't you think? I'd say it's much, much MUCH better to try and hedge your bets, and get someone good in there. A lot of Leaf fans reference how bad Campbell was last season, saying "Murray/Samsanov can't be any worse", but that makes no sense to me. We are trying to win NOW, no? Why wouldn't we put an absolute Banger in net, to help ensure that, and not waste the best years of Matthew's career?

Murray(& Samsanov) are both massive question marks.

Not good.

(Here's a helpful picture below, to illustrate my point)

View attachment 581553

Well, ignoring the fact that all cap team GM's were just thrown the biggest curveball in history with the covid flat cap leading to Florida dismantling the Presidents trophy team, Tampa shedding their top matchup dman and depth, etc. etc., which goalies did you want to acquire?

I think this thread would go much more smoothly if folks were putting out better solutions but I really cant see any out there better than what all other teams, not just the Leafs, did in the off season.

All the goalies available out there had their warts from inexperience to injury issues to underperformance.

The Leafs are one of the few top teams to have a stable collection of first-rounders and prospects so its not too late to make a mid-season move as well.

So who were your targets?

 

[Leaf Fans]

You do realize this is the 2022-23 upcoming season and those Cups are from 2016 & 2017 with that 2015 1st rounder?

You really don't believe in "what have you done for me lately" but prefer to live in past.

Curious if you also believe a player that has been on Cup winning team in the past, has any greater guarantee to be on a future Cup winning team as a result of that?

I don't mean to spoil the party, but there is Zero guarantee a former Cup winning player repeats that success, any more than a player never have won it previously the odds are the exact same. History is history, and the present is not the past.

PS. 2016 was a great year .. Leafs were finishing dead last overall, winning the draft lottery and Lou Lam was the GM and was drafting Auston Matthews #1OA. A lot has changed since then, come on into 2022 and join the rest of us.

I prefer to live in the present. It know that past Cup winning players are sought after. You are not spoiling any party. I am in 2022.

 

[Mess]

I prefer to live in the present. It know that past Cup winning players are sought after. You are not spoiling any party. I am in 2022.

If past winning players are sought after then why are Leafs not signing Braden Holtby off the Washington Caps winning team of 2018, but instead going with Samsonov the goalie that has lead the Caps to back to back round #1 losses in 2021 & 2022. if you're counting on HISTORY repeating itself like you apparently are with Murray?

Why did the Leafs acquire Jack Campbell from the LA Kings 3 years ago, who then lead them to 2 straight round #1 losses, instead of Jonathan Quick the 2 X Cup winning goalie of the Kings?

Agreed past Cup wining players are sought after for the playoff experience not that it grants their new team any more future playoff success that is a key distinction.. Just ask Jake Muzzin, he was Jonathan Quick's former Cup winning teammate and now a 4 X lost in round #1 member of the Leafs since his arrival in TO.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Goalie kind of an important position, don't you think? I'd say it's much, much MUCH better to try and hedge your bets, and get someone good in there. A lot of Leaf fans reference how bad Campbell was last season, saying "Murray/Samsanov can't be any worse", but that makes no sense to me. We are trying to win NOW, no? Why wouldn't we put an absolute Banger in net, to help ensure that, and not waste the best years of Matthew's career?

There are only a handful of "bangers" in the league, and none of them get traded.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If past winning players are sought after then why are Leafs not signing Braden Holtby off the Washington Caps winning team of 2018, but instead going with Samsonov the goalie that has lead the Caps to back to back round #1 losses in 2021 & 2022. if you're counting on HISTORY repeating itself like you apparently are with Murray?

Why did the Leafs acquire Jack Campbell from the LA Kings 3 years ago, who then lead them to 2 straight round #1 losses, instead of Jonathan Quick the 2 X Cup winning goalie of the Kings?

Agreed past Cup wining players are sought after for the playoff experience not that it grants their new team any more future playoff success .. Just ask Jake Muzzin, he was Jonathan Quick's former Cup winning teammate and now a 4 X lost in round #1 member of the Leafs since his arrival in TO.

There are a couple reasons for that: First, Holtby is injured and unlikely to play in 22-23 and second, we signed Murray.
LA wasn't trading Quick as he was a Cup winner. No one would ever trade for a former Cup winner to lead them to failure, but sometimes teams that aquire them don't cause success on their new teams. Just ask Jake Muzzin, he was Jonathan Quick's former Cup winning teammate and now a 4 X lost in round #1 member of the Leafs since his arrival in TO.

 

[Nineteen67]

Well, ignoring the fact that all cap team GM's were just thrown the biggest curveball in history with the covid flat cap leading to Florida dismantling the Presidents trophy team, Tampa shedding their top matchup dman and depth, etc. etc., which goalies did you want to acquire?

I think this thread would go much more smoothly if folks were putting out better solutions but I really cant see any out there better than what all other teams, not just the Leafs, did in the off season.

All the goalies available out there had their warts from inexperience to injury issues to underperformance.

The Leafs are one of the few top teams to have a stable collection of first-rounders and prospects so its not too late to make a mid-season move as well.

So who were your targets?

I wonder if they’d be in this position if they weren’t training the GM for first three years?
On the day he started, the goaltending was a known issue. Andersen came in with question marks and put up a big red flag in his first playoff game in Toronto, and the trend continued the following year.
They’ve tried to fix it, but they’ve failed and are once again rolling the dice.

 

[saltming]

Six years into Matthews' and Marner's careers, I expect MUCH better planning from my team, than two huge question marks in goal, who've had bad numbers for years now. Brutal.

It was 9 years for Mackinnon

 

[Mess]

I wonder if they’d be in this position if they weren’t training the GM for first three years?
On the day he started, the goaltending was a known issue. Andersen came in with question marks and put up a big red flag in his first playoff game in Toronto, and the trend continued the following year.
They’ve tried to fix it, but they’ve failed and are once again rolling the dice.

But with Leafs goaltending reclamation projects on the front burner now, Leafs nation fans should really adjust Toronto Cup success expectations accordingly from contenders to pretenders. This based on the "good teams are built from the goalie out" belief of legendary HHOF coach Scotty Bowman.

With the downgrade in net, I'm expecting my Leafs to drop at least double digit points in the standings, and may even lose home ice advantage like they had the past 2 years.

Leafs vaulted offense particularly lead by 60 goal man Auston Matthews will prevent the new goaltending from potentially derailing the upcoming season entirely IF this experiment fails and IF they perform at last years levels, as Leafs will score enough goals to mask any sub sv% and GAA goaltending concerns. IMO .. Leafs still finished 18th overall in actual goals against last year with Campbell playing at All-Star game levels the first 3 months.

If Petr Mrazek can win 10 of his 20 starts with brutal .888 sv% then the new goalies should be able to win at minimum 50% of their games, based on Leafs offense masking their shortcomings via for lots and lots of goals for from the core 4 in particular during the regular season.. When the playoffs start that's a different issue where your goalie must be able to make key saves at key times or its lights out on your season again.

 

[Nineteen67]

But with Leafs goaltending reclamation projects on the front burner now, Leafs nation fans should really adjust Toronto Cup success expectations accordingly from contenders to pretenders. This based on the "good teams are built from the goalie out" belief of legendary HHOF coach Scotty Bowman.

With the downgrade in net, I'm expecting my Leafs to drop at least double digit points in the standings, and may even lose home ice advantage like they had the past 2 years.

Leafs vaulted offense particularly lead by 60 goal man Auston Matthews will prevent the new goaltending from potentially derailing the upcoming season entirely IF this experiment fails and IF they perform at last years levels, as Leafs will score enough goals to mask any sub sv% and GAA goaltending concerns. IMO

If Petr Mrazek can win 10 of his 20 starts with brutal .888 sv% then the new goalies should be able to win at minimum 50% of their games, based on Leafs offense masking their shortcomings via for lots and lots of goals for from the core 4 in particular during the regular season.. When the playoffs start that's a different issue where your goalie must be able to make key saves at key times or its lights out on your season again.

They’ve never been a contender, in my book.

They could win the division this year, however points will likely be lower because the lower teams are little more competitive.

 

[Zybalto]

I wonder if they’d be in this position if they weren’t training the GM for first three years?
On the day he started, the goaltending was a known issue. Andersen came in with question marks and put up a big red flag in his first playoff game in Toronto, and the trend continued the following year.
They’ve tried to fix it, but they’ve failed and are once again rolling the dice.

Andersen was a top goalie for the first 2.5 years here and possibly even the team MVP for the majority of it. Were there even any upgrades around then? ....and are we forgetting about the injuries?

The last 3 seasons, Andersen was hurt or playing hurt half the time, Mrazek basically had the entire season wiped out with a bad groin and Campbell lost the last half of last season with an injury/playing with an injury and all of this coincided with one of the worst situations any GM has ever been put in with the stupid cap being put in place after all the big deals were signed in anticipation of it exploding higher with revenues soaring.

A majority of the board wanted to sign Campbell as fast as possible to a larger deal than he got before he melted down the 2nd half last season remember?

It's hard to find goaltending that A) is solid and clutch under pressure, B) wants to come to Toronto and C) doesnt want stupid money to do so as the cap killed ours(and everyones) situation. Outside of the maybe 5 teams confident in their goaltending, every other team out there is rolling the dice with the least resources in history to do it.

The Leafs chose to go with proven playoff performance in Murray with hopes of him putting his injury issues behind him (on a much better team) and a high pedigree guy who had real struggles with covid coming off a good playoffs as well. Is it a gamble? yes........but so is literally every other option out there.

Lets wait and see how it looks before condemning it is all I ask. We had bottom 5 goaltending the 2nd half of the season (and maybe I'm being generous calling it that with how good the team was in front of it). Give the new guys a chance.

Who did you want BTW?....and which guys did you think we missed out on?

I know some folks wanted Grubauer (the worst goalie in hockey last season).

It's a tough position to get a read on, thats for sure.

 

[34]

Not an NHL goaltender. Dubas punched his own departure ticket on this one. He is done.

The Leafs will be in the bottom of the standings.

 

[Zybalto]

But with Leafs goaltending reclamation projects on the front burner now, Leafs nation fans should really adjust Toronto Cup success expectations accordingly from contenders to pretenders. This based on the "good teams are built from the goalie out" belief of legendary HHOF coach Scotty Bowman.

With the downgrade in net, I'm expecting my Leafs to drop at least double digit points in the standings, and may even lose home ice advantage like they had the past 2 years.

Leafs vaulted offense particularly lead by 60 goal man Auston Matthews will prevent the new goaltending from potentially derailing the upcoming season entirely IF this experiment fails and IF they perform at last years levels, as Leafs will score enough goals to mask any sub sv% and GAA goaltending concerns. IMO .. Leafs still finished 18th overall in actual goals against last year with Campbell playing at All-Star game levels the first 3 months.

If Petr Mrazek can win 10 of his 20 starts with brutal .888 sv% then the new goalies should be able to win at minimum 50% of their games, based on Leafs offense masking their shortcomings via for lots and lots of goals for from the core 4 in particular during the regular season.. When the playoffs start that's a different issue where your goalie must be able to make key saves at key times or its lights out on your season again.

Thats a bold prediction for a team that put up the 4th best record in the league with the 27th ranked goalkeeping in the 2nd half.

Are you saying the Leafs will have even worse goaltending but for the entire season?

 

[Holymakinaw]

We have a 2 time Cup winner and a 2015 first round pick as a backup in net.

Uh, yeah. You might be delusional if you think THAT is what we actually have.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Well, ignoring the fact that all cap team GM's were just thrown the biggest curveball in history with the covid flat cap leading to Florida dismantling the Presidents trophy team, Tampa shedding their top matchup dman and depth, etc. etc., which goalies did you want to acquire?

I think this thread would go much more smoothly if folks were putting out better solutions but I really cant see any out there better than what all other teams, not just the Leafs, did in the off season.

All the goalies available out there had their warts from inexperience to injury issues to underperformance.

The Leafs are one of the few top teams to have a stable collection of first-rounders and prospects so its not too late to make a mid-season move as well.

So who were your targets?

Meh. Typical offseason excuses made by fans, for this franchise.

How about the "target" was someone we drafted & developed with a 1st or 2nd round pick, like 6-7 years ago? I know Goalies can be a crapshoot at times but why can't we EVER place any emphasis on them, and try to draft one with serious pedigree? We did with Rask and he ended up being a great Goalie.

Constantly focusing on offence all the time, and almost ignoring the Goalie position clearly has gotten us nowhere. Sure we'll outscore our shitty goaltending problems this upcoming regular season. But when things gets tough next post-season, we've got nothing. Once again.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I hated this move from the start.
For now I'm am crossing my fingers that this is a big brain 7D Chess move, where Murray gets 15-20 games to prove it; if he doesn't it's LTIR Island, freed up cap and we trade for a goalie at the deadline (while giving Samsanov a bit of a look).

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Meh. Typical offseason excuses made by fans, for this franchise.

How about the "target" was someone we drafted & developed with a 1st or 2nd round pick, like 6-7 years ago? I know Goalies can be a crapshoot at times but why can't we EVER place any emphasis on them, and try to draft one with serious pedigree? We did with Rask and he ended up being a great Goalie.

Constantly focusing on offence all the time, and almost ignoring the Goalie position clearly has gotten us nowhere. Sure we'll outscore our shitty goaltending problems this upcoming regular season. But when things gets tough next post-season, we've got nothing. Once again.

Samsonov was drafted in the 1st round in roughly that time frame.
It's a good idea in theory, but there has to actually be a goalie worth drafting that high (there often aren't). They should be getting an extra pick or 2 to throw more darts at goalies each year like Nashville did...most turn into nothing, but a bunch of 3-6 round picks are worth 1 starter.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Samsonov was drafted in the 1st round in roughly that time frame.
It's a good idea in theory, but there has to actually be a goalie worth drafting that high (there often aren't). They should be getting an extra pick or 2 to throw more darts at goalies each year like Nashville did...most turn into nothing, but a bunch of 3-6 round picks are worth 1 starter.

I'd rather take chances on Goalies we drafted & developed, than roll the dice on one year deals for guys that have been jettisoned or left their teams already at that age.

If we can't trade for a very good Goalie(and Freddy Andersen & Jack Campbell proved that we can) then we should always have guys like Samsanov anyway, from within. We don't.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I'd rather take chances on Goalies we drafted & developed, than roll the dice on one year deals for guys that have been jettisoned or left their teams already.

Going forward I agree, but the draft eligible goalies in the last several years haven't been stellar...and I personally wouldn't have trusted the goalie coaching staff we did have in place with developing anyone from the past 6-7 years into a bonified starter.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Uh, yeah. You might be delusional if you think THAT is what we actually have.

No, it is factual. Check for yourself.

 

[Holymakinaw]

No, it is factual. Check for yourself.

LOL.

Yeah, and Aki Berg was drafted 3rd overall once. Who cares? Meant nothing in his career.

CLEARLY we picked up some scrapings off the bottom of other team's barrels and are going on pure hope this season. Muarry & Samsanov are not "it", deluded Leaf fan.

 

[Leaf Fans]

LOL.

Yeah, and Aki Berg was drafted 3rd overall once. Who cares? Meant nothing in his career.

CLEARLY we picked up some scrapings off the bottom of other team's barrels and are going on pure hope this season. Muarry & Samsanov are not "it", deluded Leaf fan.

He was drafted 3rd overall. I don't care. Clearly we traded for a guy who has Stanley Cup pedigree and a golievwho was a first round pick in 2015 ( regardless if you care.)
Murray and Samsonov likely the tandom for the Leafs.

What also doesn't matter is whether you like it or not.