Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[ULF_55]

You can't include November because Campbell was outstanding and saved the Leafs season. He went 9-2 record in 11 games with a 1.27 GAA and .959 sv% & GSAx +18.2 (and named to All-Star game as a result).

View attachment 581371

That's who the Oilers signed.
They didn't sign the guy that played from January 1st. forward.

But Campbell did better than Andersen who didn't even make it to the playoffs.

Wherefore art thou Belfour?

 

[Mess]

That's who the Oilers signed.
They didn't sign the guy that played from January 1st. forward.

But Campbell did better than Andersen who didn't even make it to the playoffs.

Wherefore art thou Belfour?

Matt Murray only played in 20 games last year due to poor play, and injuries and didn't make it to the playoffs either as he missed the last 28 games of the season and what would have been the full playoffs as well only returning to the ice in August for the 1st time. .

The best ability is availability.

Now here's the thing--goalies are impossible to predict. The moment you think that one guy is great, he starts to stink. The moment you think that one guy sucks, he magically turns it on and has an unbelievable season. There are only a handful of goalies in this league who you can truly count on to be great all the time, and they're named Andrei Vasilevskiy.

So sure, Matt Murray has been downright horrendous since getting sent to Ottawa. He dealt with concussion issues in the 2017-18 season, more concussion and injury issues in the 2018-19 season, more concussions with Ottawa which ended his season last year, and now is at the point where the Sens had to package in 2 draft picks just to get rid of him. Pretty drastically steep fall from grace after winning back-to-back Stanley Cups in 2016 and 2017.

 

[Stephen]

Matt Murray only played in 20 games last year due to poor play, and injuries and didn't make it to the playoffs either as he missed the last 28 games of the season and what would have been the full playoffs as well only returning to the ice in August for the 1st time. .

The best ability is availability.

Now here's the thing--goalies are impossible to predict. The moment you think that one guy is great, he starts to stink. The moment you think that one guy sucks, he magically turns it on and has an unbelievable season. There are only a handful of goalies in this league who you can truly count on to be great all the time, and they're named Andrei Vasilevskiy.

So sure, Matt Murray has been downright horrendous since getting sent to Ottawa. He dealt with concussion issues in the 2017-18 season, more concussion and injury issues in the 2018-19 season, more concussions with Ottawa which ended his season last year, and now is at the point where the Sens had to package in 2 draft picks just to get rid of him. Pretty drastically steep fall from grace after winning back-to-back Stanley Cups in 2016 and 2017.

View attachment 581412

InGoal Radio was talking about how Murray's game traditionally has poor lateral mobility and one of the great reasons for his success is Mike Sullivan's system was built to protect against cross crease plays. As the Penguins championship personnel on defense moved on, this impacted Pittsburgh's ability to provide Murray with the protection that made him great.

The other factor that's in play now is Murray has been working on rebuilding his stance, which was traditionally very deep. Apparently he's been rebuilding his mechanics and stance over the past two years which includes standing with a more upright V which allows for more power to be generated when responding laterally. Sounds like he was beginning to integrate this and have success for stretches last year.

Now the true test is to see if the Leafs will have the game plan and defensive personnel to protect Murray and give him the defensive environment that lets him thrive and if he's successfully rebuilt his own play style to goaltend in an era where side to side plays are more and more prevalent.

 

[ULF_55]

Matt Murray only played in 20 games last year due to poor play, and injuries and didn't make it to the playoffs either as he missed the last 28 games of the season and what would have been the full playoffs as well only returning to the ice in August for the 1st time. .

The best ability is availability.

Now here's the thing--goalies are impossible to predict. The moment you think that one guy is great, he starts to stink. The moment you think that one guy sucks, he magically turns it on and has an unbelievable season. There are only a handful of goalies in this league who you can truly count on to be great all the time, and they're named Andrei Vasilevskiy.

So sure, Matt Murray has been downright horrendous since getting sent to Ottawa. He dealt with concussion issues in the 2017-18 season, more concussion and injury issues in the 2018-19 season, more concussions with Ottawa which ended his season last year, and now is at the point where the Sens had to package in 2 draft picks just to get rid of him. Pretty drastically steep fall from grace after winning back-to-back Stanley Cups in 2016 and 2017.

View attachment 581412

Yeah, I'm kinda looking forward to this season.

There are few real surprises in life, other than waking up each morning with another opportunity.

Time flies, Andrew Raycroft and Tim Thomas played together in Boston and then 5 years later at age 36 Thomas won the Cup. That was over a decade ago.

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah, I'm kinda looking forward to this season.

There are few real surprises in life, other than waking up each morning with another opportunity.

Time flies, Andrew Raycroft and Tim Thomas played together in Boston and then 5 years later at age 36 Thomas won the Cup. That was over a decade ago.

Oh, and his save percentage with Ottawa last year was very similar to Robin Lehner's and Fleury's.

 

[Mess]

InGoal Radio was talking about how Murray's game traditionally has poor lateral mobility and one of the great reasons for his success is Mike Sullivan's system was built to protect against cross crease plays. As the Penguins championship personnel on defense moved on, this impacted Pittsburgh's ability to provide Murray with the protection that made him great.

The other factor that's in play now is Murray has been working on rebuilding his stance, which was traditionally very deep. Apparently he's been rebuilding his mechanics and stance over the past two years which includes standing with a more upright V which allows for more power to be generated when responding laterally. Sounds like he was beginning to integrate this and have success for stretches last year.

Now the true test is to see if the Leafs will have the game plan and defensive personnel to protect Murray and give him the defensive environment that lets him thrive and if he's successfully rebuilt his own play style to goaltend in an era where side to side plays are more and more prevalent.

To me the biggest concern is going to be health of Murray .. He has already had a long list on injuries including 4 known reported concussions the last one in March that cost him the last 28 games of last season.

Murray only appeared in 20 games last year and 27 games previously for 47 games total over past 2 years. Leafs would be hoping for that amount next year,

The often injured Campbell played in 49 games last year.

Matt Murray's stats personally have been in decline since those 1st 2 years at Pitt and your explanation makes sense, As often the case with young goalies they come on to the scene unknown and then the more film and time teams figure out the weaknesses. So for Leafs attempting to correct this is good news on that front.

 

[Beaumaris]

HE is an RFA

Why couldn't the Leafs afford him?

Thats what I want to know also.

 

[Zybalto]

I know you are trying to prove Campbell is not good and Leafs is better off with Murray but if you are using stats, don’t just use stats that favor your opinion. Use the whole season instead of from Dec 1.

I was actually more alluding to the fact the Leafs have an absolutely incredible team to have put up that kind of record with that kind of goaltending. They literally had bottom 5 goaltending the second half of the season with good D numbers.

Campbell was incredible early this season and, as I have pointed out repeatedly, he had the 2nd best save% in the league over almost 2 calendar years with the Leafs and the big worry about him was his durability over a full NHL season as a starter (this was a VERY common worry about him no?) Things are so extreme around here that sometimes I find myself defending and criticizing Campbell.

....and Campbell was also looking to cash in after his career rebirth in Toronto so the decision was if you wanted to sign him long-term after his first full NHL season as a starter ended pretty rough or go in a different direction.

Will the new guys work out? I dunno....no one does. All we know for sure is that the last guys didnt....

 

[Gabriel426]

I was actually more alluding to the fact the Leafs have an absolutely incredible team to have put up that kind of record with that kind of goaltending. They literally had bottom 5 goaltending the second half of the season with good D numbers.

Campbell was incredible early this season and, as I have pointed out repeatedly, he had the 2nd best save% in the league over almost 2 calendar years with the Leafs and the big worry about him was his durability over a full NHL season as a starter (this was a VERY common worry about him no?) Things are so extreme around here that sometimes I find myself defending and criticizing Campbell.

....and Campbell was also looking to cash in after his career rebirth in Toronto so the decision was if you wanted to sign him long-term after his first full NHL season as a starter ended pretty rough or go in a different direction.

Will the new guys work out? I dunno....no one does. All we know for sure is that the last guys didnt....

I always admire you using stats and research, just pointing out that need to use the whole season that’s all.

I agree with what you said. It is going to be pretty hard unless injury for Murray to be as bad as he was the past season but the question is, it is bc of the Leafs playing in front of him or bc of him.
We will find out in the playoffs.

Also, I really won’t use we know for sure that the last guys didn’t get the job done in playoffs, since our top guys are in the same boat, lol.

 

[Stephen]

To me the biggest concern is going to be health of Murray .. He has already had a long list on injuries including 4 known reported concussions the last one in March that cost him the last 28 games of last season.

Murray only appeared in 20 games last year and 27 games previously for 47 games total over past 2 years. Leafs would be hoping for that amount next year,

The often injured Campbell played in 49 games last year.

Matt Murray's stats personally have been in decline since those 1st 2 years at Pitt and your explanation makes sense, As often the case with young goalies they come on to the scene unknown and then the more film and time teams figure out the weaknesses. So for Leafs attempting to correct this is good news on that front.

View attachment 581431

For me I think I’m more concerned about making sure Murray puts his best foot forward and brings quality hockey. This gets the fanbase on his side and builds trust with the team. That will be the foundation of his success. But of course health needs to be there for all that to happen.

 

[Nineteen67]

Murray and Campbell were teammates in the Soo in 2011-12

View attachment 581367

View attachment 581366

Both Goalies split the games fairly evenly.

When does Nishi get a chance with the Leafs?

 

[Nineteen67]

InGoal Radio was talking about how Murray's game traditionally has poor lateral mobility and one of the great reasons for his success is Mike Sullivan's system was built to protect against cross crease plays. As the Penguins championship personnel on defense moved on, this impacted Pittsburgh's ability to provide Murray with the protection that made him great.

The other factor that's in play now is Murray has been working on rebuilding his stance, which was traditionally very deep. Apparently he's been rebuilding his mechanics and stance over the past two years which includes standing with a more upright V which allows for more power to be generated when responding laterally. Sounds like he was beginning to integrate this and have success for stretches last year.

Now the true test is to see if the Leafs will have the game plan and defensive personnel to protect Murray and give him the defensive environment that lets him thrive and if he's successfully rebuilt his own play style to goaltend in an era where side to side plays are more and more prevalent.

Those guys give great insight

 

[Holymakinaw]

Will the new guys work out? I dunno....no one does. All we know for sure is that the last guys didnt....

Goalie kind of an important position, don't you think? I'd say it's much, much MUCH better to try and hedge your bets, and get someone good in there. A lot of Leaf fans reference how bad Campbell was last season, saying "Murray/Samsanov can't be any worse", but that makes no sense to me. We are trying to win NOW, no? Why wouldn't we put an absolute Banger in net, to help ensure that, and not waste the best years of Matthew's career?

Murray(& Samsanov) are both massive question marks.

Not good.

(Here's a helpful picture below, to illustrate my point)

 

[saltming]

Goalie kind of an important position, don't you think? I'd say it's much, much MUCH better to try and hedge your bets, and get someone good in there. A lot of Leaf fans reference how bad Campbell was last season, saying "Murray/Samsanov can't be any worse", but that makes no sense to me. We are trying to win NOW, no? Why wouldn't we put an absolute Banger in net, to help ensure that, and not waste the best years of Matthew's career?

Murray(& Samsanov) are both massive question marks.

Not good.

I think the debate is based on the fact that there was no clear banger availabile so we are deciding if this is better than all the other options that were available

 

[Holymakinaw]

I think the debate is based on the fact that there was no clear banger availabile so we are deciding if this is better than all the other options that were available

I don't buy that for a second. Besides the UFA market, there are trade options available, if you're willing to give up assets to secure someone legit. And besides, why haven't we been drafting top Goalie prospects with high picks(at least 2nds) since Rask? We could have developed our own guy by now.

There's no plan in goal.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I don't buy that for a second. Besides the UFA market, there are trade options available, if you're willing to give up assets to secure someone legit. And besides, why haven't we been drafting top Goalie prospects with high picks(at least 2nds) since Rask? We could have developed our own guy by now.

There's no plan in goal.

There is a definite plan: A Murray/Samsonov tandem.

 

[Holymakinaw]

There is a definite plan: A Murray/Samsonov tandem.

LOL. It's a shit plan.

 

[Leaf Fans]

LOL. It's a shit plan.

You might think it is shit, but it is a plan.

 

[saltming]

I don't buy that for a second. Besides the UFA market, there are trade options available, if you're willing to give up assets to secure someone legit. And besides, why haven't we been drafting top Goalie prospects with high picks(at least 2nds) since Rask? We could have developed our own guy by now.

There's no plan in goal.

We aquired Mackay, a promising NCAA prospect, Scott wanted it due to injury, we have a potential in Russia.
For now both Murray and samsonov have question marks but both have already started adjusting their styles to better suit today's game.
The potential is there.
What do you think we could trade for vasilesky or shesterkin? It takes 2 to trade. No team is giving up an elite goalie. Maybe we could get price but he may never play again and at 10 million and huge questions on if he will ever be the same, I would pass

 

[Holymakinaw]

You might think it is shit, but it is a plan.

Six years into Matthews' and Marner's careers, I expect MUCH better planning from my team, than two huge question marks in goal, who've had bad numbers for years now. Brutal.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Six years into Matthews' and Marner's career, I expect MUCH better planning from my team, than two huge question marks in goal, who've had bad numbers for years now. Brutal.

We have a 2 time Cup winner and a 2015 first round pick as a backup in net.

 

[Hellcat]

Matt Murray only played in 20 games last year due to poor play, and injuries and didn't make it to the playoffs either as he missed the last 28 games of the season and what would have been the full playoffs as well only returning to the ice in August for the 1st time. .

The best ability is availability.

Now here's the thing--goalies are impossible to predict. The moment you think that one guy is great, he starts to stink. The moment you think that one guy sucks, he magically turns it on and has an unbelievable season. There are only a handful of goalies in this league who you can truly count on to be great all the time, and they're named Andrei Vasilevskiy.

So sure, Matt Murray has been downright horrendous since getting sent to Ottawa. He dealt with concussion issues in the 2017-18 season, more concussion and injury issues in the 2018-19 season, more concussions with Ottawa which ended his season last year, and now is at the point where the Sens had to package in 2 draft picks just to get rid of him. Pretty drastically steep fall from grace after winning back-to-back Stanley Cups in 2016 and 2017.

View attachment 581412

Goalies are impossible to predict but when you suck as bad as Murray has since he arrived in Ottawa I think you can pretty much predict what we got in him, he will be the reason why we are in a dog fight for a playoff spot with Ottawa. Samsonov if healthy will be our #1 come playoffs. This is if we make the playoffs. The Sens are significantly better than last year, their talent level has gone up significantly and they play a harder game than the Leafs.

We asked Mackay, a promising NCAA prospect, Scott wanted it due to injury, we have a potential in Russia.
For now both Murray and samsonov have question marks but both have already started adjusting their styles to better suit today's game.
The potential is there.
What do you think we could trade for vasilesky or shesterkin? It takes 2 to trade. No team is giving up an elite goalie. Maybe we could get price but he may never play again and at 10 million and huge questions on if he will ever be the same, I would pass

While I agree with you, mostly. A cup contender should not have "potential" in net. They should have a for sure thing.

 

[Hellcat]

When does Nishi get a chance with the Leafs?

What is a Nishi?

 

[Racer88]

We have a 2 time Cup winner and a 2015 first round pick as a backup in net.

Those 2 cup wins were in the last decade and there are a lot of first round picks working in the lumber section at Home Depot.

 

[Nineteen67]

What is a Nishi?

The other goalie on the Soo with Campbell and Murray.