Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Dekes For Days]

It does however have a lot to do with us paying one of the most overrated players in the NHL like a super elite player.

It doesn't have anything to do with our expenditures. If we had 20 mil in cap space right now, we still wouldn't have a Shesterkin or Vasilevsky.

 

[LeafEgo]

It's clearly not. The goalies this fan base actually wants arent available. Whining and moaning about Murray and Samsonov instead of Talbot is like crying about your dad buying a second hand toyota truck because the kid down the street has a lambo.

Maybe dad should have made better decisions over the years and he wouldn't be buying a broken down Toyota.

Particularly if he had a Maserati just a couple years ago.

Talbot would have been a good pick up given the circumstances but I don't think he was made available until after Murray was already acquired.

 

[socko]

It doesn't have anything to do with our expenditures. If we had 20 mil in cap space right now, we still wouldn't have a Shesterkin or Vasilevsky.

It's strange how Lou wasting cap space really bothers you, but Dubas wasting a lot more cap space is no problem at all.

 

[Menzinger]

Matt Murray in his last 2 playoff years with Pens after (those stats you posted) nearly got sweeped in back to back playoffs with Murray going 0-4 vs NYI sweep in 2018-19 and going1-3, losing the best of 5 play-in to Montreal in 2019-20 for a pair of round #1 losses.

Going 1-7 in his last 8 playoff games is anything but clutch, and was done playing behind Cup winning teams of 2016 & 2017 with Crosby and Malkin.

That is why he ended up in Ottawa, his playoff failures as a Pen.

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2018-19 - Pittsburgh vs NY Islanders round #1

Apr 10 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at New York Islanders OT
Apr 12 Pittsburgh Penguins 1 3 at New York Islanders
Apr 14 New York Islanders 4 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Apr 16 New York Islanders 3 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins

New York Islanders win series 4 games to 0

Matt Murray playoff stats 0-4 record
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2019-20 - Pittsburgh vs Montreal round #1 (best of 5)

Aug 1 Montreal Canadiens 3 2 at Pittsburgh Penguins OT
Aug 3 Montreal Canadiens 1 3 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Aug 5 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at Montreal Canadiens
Aug 7 Pittsburgh Penguins 0 2 at Montreal Canadiens

Montreal Canadiens win series 3 games to 1

Matt Murray playoff stats 1-3 record
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets hope this isn't the Matt Murray recent playoff results the Leafs are gambling on to win a playoff series.

PS.. Ilya Samsonov is also 1-7 in his last 2 playoff series with Washington and both round #1 losses.

Leafs new goalies are a combined 2 wins and 14 losses in their last 2 playoffs series each combined, and the main reason their former teams Pens and Caps cut them loose.

These are not performances that lead one to believe Leafs are locked and loaded for a Stanley Cup run,
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The defending cup champs have decided to gamble on a goalie who has zero experience leading a team in the regular season, let alone any past playoff success

A gamble that may very well pay off for them in the end. But the bigger lesson here is there are more than one team that is banking on a guess to work out beyond just the Leafs

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's strange how Lou wasting cap space really bothers you, but Dubas wasting a lot more cap space is no problem at all.

I don't like cap space being wasted by anybody, and wasted cap space was massively higher under Lou.

What does this have to do with goaltenders?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Maybe dad should have made better decisions over the years and he wouldn't be buying a broken down Toyota.

Particularly if he had a Maserati just a couple years ago.

Talbot would have been a good pick up given the circumstances but I don't think he was made available until after Murray was already acquired.

Was dad in power when they were selling Lambo's? We dont know yet, we've got a lot in the garage.

Sold a broken Maserati after we bought a repaired Lexus but the lexus f***ing broke again.

Maserati meanwhile never made it to the gig, the Lexus made it there but got a flat tire and now we have a broken down Toyota that dad hopes he can fix into an every day vehicle.

None of those cars are a Lambo and the Maserati is old and you cant fix it.

Also LOL at the bolded, not because I disagree but because you called him a pick up, like a truck. Like a pick up truck. Get it, you called him a truck and i used a vehicle analogy. Is funny.

 

[socko]

The defending cup champs have decided to gamble on a goalie who has zero experience leading a team in the regular season, let alone any past playoff success

A gamble that may very well pay off for them in the end. But the bigger lesson here is there are more than one team that is banking on a guess to work out beyond just the Leafs

I don't see how trading Kuemper for Georgiev is likely to payoff. Unless something is very wrong physically with Kuemper. Francouz looked like a good backup but their goaltending certainly looks weaker.

 

[andora]

This thread is not passing the tests

 

[mydnyte]

Maybe theyre tanking

good time to have an 'off' year ala Colorodo when they got Makar.

 

[mydnyte]

I don't see how trading Kuemper for Georgiev is likely to payoff. Unless something is very wrong physically with Kuemper. Francouz looked like a good backup but their goaltending certainly looks weaker.

to me Kuemper looked much worse than his stats. Georgiev, that was a bigger mistake than Murray and for 1 year longer, with minimal cap savings, and i think Murray is done, and over too.

 

[Frostitute]

I kind of agree with wanting a #1 stud goalie even if it meant overpaying, but the problem as I see it is that there are so few #1 studs in the game and none are available. Or in other words, can't blame Dubas for not doing something that's simply not possible to do.

I agree with everything you said about the big 4 situation.

As far as "shit at aquiring descent goaltending", I can understand that sentiment. I've had similar thoughts at times, not sure if that's fair or not but it sometimes seems that way. I'm pretty optimistic about our new tandem though, could be that that's based more on hope than logic but still, I like having two guys who both seem to have the potential to be good for us.

As for not aquiring the stud goalie, that's why I mentioned that perhaps he did try. None of us are privileged to that type of information so although he did not do it I wanted to be clear that it simply may not have been possible. I mean honestly, if I were GM I'd have called LL and said "Hey boss, take ur pick of any prospect you want + 2x1sts if we can have Sorokin." Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. Am I overpaying? Almost definitely, but I see a stud in him with a long future.

The big 4 situation is what it is now. I'm glad we agree on that as I read a lot here and we seem to agree on most things. It's pretty cool to find a like-minded fan. Some are quite unappealing to say the least but I try to lovem all haha.

As for the "shit goaltending" thing. I may have gone a little far based on my frustration with the current situation. He certainly found a good one at a descent price IMO with Campbell. And I LOVE that we picked up Samsonov. I still remember his WJC performance that blew my mind. It's just Murray that bothers me I suppose. I definitely wouldn't have made that move but I'm just a fan and he is GM so I guess we'll see where that goes before I poopoo it even more.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

After reading through this thread, I want to go on record as

a) never really caring much for Dubas
b) actually liking this move

Here is why. There were no goalies available. A resigned soup for what Edmonton through at him would have been a worse move. 5 years? No thanks. Was never sold on him, too streaky, reminded me a tonne of Reimer.

This is a "stopgap" type play, and signing Samsonov, also another gamble, hedges this play.

Gentlemen's bet here that one of them, and I can't predict which, will play as well/better than Soup did last year.

I remember back when we signed Belfour, he was washed up, old, done, all the same stuff spouted in here, and he put on an absolute clinic while here.

Goalies, I don't know what it is about them, they are fickle. Bernier was supposed to be an absolute steal. Nope. Turned into worse than what we had in Reimer. Toskala? god...brutal. Anderson? Meh. These were all goalies we traded assets for, and were all applauded at the time (myself included)

I remember Murray just coming in and ripping it up seemingly out of nowhere. Yeah, he came back to earth in Pitty, and then shit the bed in Ottawa. How many times have we seen players struggle on a basement dwelling team, get flipped off to a contender and then bounce back? Anyone remember the Justin Schulz deal? Everyone was ripping the Pens a new one considering how horrid he was on Edmonton, and he turned it around and shut everyone up.

Staying the course with what we had would have been a bigger mistake. Had Soup signed for 3-4 million, different story, but he went for the payday and Im not sure its going to work out in Edmontons' favour.

Im cautiously optimistic about this one.

 

[ACC1224]

After reading through this thread, I want to go on record as

a) never really caring much for Dubas
b) actually liking this move

Here is why. There were no goalies available. A resigned soup for what Edmonton through at him would have been a worse move. 5 years? No thanks. Was never sold on him, too streaky, reminded me a tonne of Reimer.

This is a "stopgap" type play, and signing Samsonov, also another gamble, hedges this play.

Gentlemen's bet here that one of them, and I can't predict which, will play as well/better than Soup did last year.

I remember back when we signed Belfour, he was washed up, old, done, all the same stuff spouted in here, and he put on an absolute clinic while here.

Goalies, I don't know what it is about them, they are fickle. Bernier was supposed to be an absolute steal. Nope. Turned into worse than what we had in Reimer. Toskala? god...brutal. Anderson? Meh. These were all goalies we traded assets for, and were all applauded at the time (myself included)

I remember Murray just coming in and ripping it up seemingly out of nowhere. Yeah, he came back to earth in Pitty, and then shit the bed in Ottawa. How many times have we seen players struggle on a basement dwelling team, get flipped off to a contender and then bounce back? Anyone remember the Justin Schulz deal? Everyone was ripping the Pens a new one considering how horrid he was on Edmonton, and he turned it around and shut everyone up.

Staying the course with what we had would have been a bigger mistake. Had Soup signed for 3-4 million, different story, but he went for the payday and Im not sure its going to work out in Edmontons' favour.

Im cautiously optimistic about this one.

Good post, love the optimism

Couple things I don’t necessarily agree with though.
“There were no goalies available”.
My impression of this summer is that quite a few goalies changed teams and were available.

“Belfour”
Great goalie but expecting (hoping) to get HOF level goaltending out of either of the new guys seems unlikely. If they can just play well enough the Leafs will be fine. If not…….

 

[Deuce Awesome]

Good post, love the optimism

Couple things I don’t necessarily agree with though.
“There were no goalies available”.
My impression of this summer is that quite a few goalies changed teams and were available.

“Belfour”
Great goalie but expecting (hoping) to get HOF level goaltending out of either of the new guys seems unlikely. If they can just play well enough the Leafs will be fine. If not…….

Im not expecting another Belfour performance out of either of these guys, but it is an example of getting a former winner off the scrap heap and having it pay off. Not always the case i know, but hell even if they play the way Raycroft did, which was a similiar gamble (cost us Rask though....man) Id be satisfied.

Ottawa and Toronto seem to have this hidden phone line to peddle off junk to each other.

 

[Mess]

The defending cup champs have decided to gamble on a goalie who has zero experience leading a team in the regular season, let alone any past playoff success

A gamble that may very well pay off for them in the end. But the bigger lesson here is there are more than one team that is banking on a guess to work out beyond just the Leafs

The Avs gamble is more than likely NOT going to work out, just like the odds are much greater Leafs gamble doesn't for them either, but I think the mood and focus because of timing would be different..

If Jack Campbell had lead the Leafs to a Cup last year and then Toronto let him walk to Edmonton as UFA and Leafs made this move would the new guys be viewed as the answer now or the focus be on why let a winning goalie go, or if a hail marry chance on the new guys will be able to repeat that success ?

The Avs fans are coming off a Stanley Cup so their mood is high, and not a long drought any longer, so their fan base will have more patience, still full and satisfied by last years success. GM and Coach necks in Colorado are not on the line if they don't have similar playoff success next year, but one couldn't say the same in Toronto if this experiment and gamble leads to more failure.

Now things in regards to this discussion would be very interesting IF Leafs had signed Darcy Kuemper off Avs winning team this summer, and then comparing it to Avs new strategy going forward, The Leafs would be attempting to repeat and follow a proven AVS winning strategy, as opposed to being compared to their new high risk gamble.

 

[ACC1224]

The defending cup champs have decided to gamble on a goalie who has zero experience leading a team in the regular season, let alone any past playoff success

A gamble that may very well pay off for them in the end. But the bigger lesson here is there are more than one team that is banking on a guess to work out beyond just the Leafs

Had the Leafs won the cup I doubt anyone would care what they are gambling on.

I only care what the Leafs do, other teams can do what they like. “If everyone jumped off a bridge……”.

 

[DarkKnight]

I don’t understand this logic of “wait and see” before commenting on the trade details. The circumstances surrounding the trade are known right now, they don’t change based on future performance, you made the deal with the realities at the time. Nobody here thought 50 percent retention was good value, given Ottawa was actively needing/wanting to dump a bad asset. This idea we suddenly had to up our offer because other suitors stepped up, only matters because we too were desperate, we put ourselves in a precarious position, which meant we couldn’t just walk away when the price rose. Nothing that transpires this year changes the fact we over paid for Murray, i don’t see other deals apologizing for being a “steal”. To me the deal is baked in, If he fails or not, we paid too much because of our own failings. There’s a reason Ottawa is ecstatic with the deal.​

 

[ACC1224]

I don’t understand this logic of “wait and see” before commenting on the trade details. The circumstances surrounding the trade are known right now, they don’t change based on future performance, you made the deal with the realities at the time. Nobody here thought 50 percent retention was good value, given Ottawa was actively needing/wanting to dump a bad asset. This idea we suddenly had to up our offer because other suitors stepped up, only matters because we too were desperate, we put ourselves in a precarious position, which meant we couldn’t just walk away when the price rose. Nothing that transpires this year changes the fact we over paid for Murray, i don’t see other deals apologizing for being a “steal”. To me the deal is baked in, If he fails or not, we paid too much because of our own failings. There’s a reason Ottawa is ecstatic with the deal.​

Exactly how I see it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don’t understand this logic of “wait and see” before commenting on the trade details. The circumstances surrounding the trade are known right now, they don’t change based on future performance, you made the deal with the realities at the time.​

I hope you apply this same thinking to all trades.

Nobody here thought 50 percent retention was good value, given Ottawa was actively needing/wanting to dump a bad asset. This idea we suddenly had to up our offer because other suitors stepped up, only matters because we too were desperate, we put ourselves in a precarious position, which meant we couldn’t just walk away when the price rose.​

Ottawa wasn't willing to retain 50%. There's no reports of us "upping the offer" or the price rising. That was just the price. We could have walked away if we wanted. We decided to go with the deal over other options.

 

[Mess]

Ottawa and Toronto seem to have this hidden phone line to peddle off junk to each other.

This is the most fascinating part of all this from me.

The Ottawa Senators have traded goalies with the Minnesota Wild, acquiring Cam Talbot in exchange for Filip Gustavsson.

This comes one day after sending struggling goalie Matt Murray to the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange with future draft picks and retention to dump the contract, Murray is coming off an injury plague season appearing in just 20 games posting 5 wins, while seeing time in the AHL, after clearing NHL waivers.

Talbot ranked 10th among NHL goaltenders in victories (32) over 49 regular-season games in 2021-22, with a .911 sv% and 2.77 GAA with 3 shutouts helping the Wild to a 113 point season.

"Cam is experienced and provides us with greater goaltending stability heading into next season," said Senators general manager Pierre Dorion in a news release. "He was instrumental in helping Minnesota reach the playoffs in each of his two seasons with the Wild. The tandem of he and Anton Forsberg sets us up nicely for the upcoming year."

Ottawa is willing to trade Murray their struggling goalie in the same Div to an arch rival team Toronto they're chasing in the standings, and then go out and replace him with a significant upgrade in net Talbot that just lead Minnesota Wild to a 113 point season, similar to Leafs 115 point season.

This looks like a move where the gap between Leafs and Ottawa is going to narrow in the standings this upcoming season with Ottawa improving on their own goaltending at Leafs expense now. With Leafs going to drop and Sens going to rise in 2022-23 standings but by how much?

Wouldn't Leafs going after Talbot and not Murray have made more sense for a team chasing playoff success?

 

[Tarmore]

I would have stayed with Jack Campbell because to me he represented the lowest risk option that probably would have taken a slight discount from what he signed in Edmonton for.

'probably would have taken a slight discount'
Conjecture, fantasy, BS

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wouldn't Leafs going after Talbot and not Murray have made more sense for a team chasing playoff success?

Don't see why it would. Some people seem to think Talbot is better than he is, and ignore the massively contrasting defensive play in front.

 

[Tarmore]

I've already tied Dubas playoff series win total. Think it over. Don't come to a hasty decision.

Let me know what team you won the Calder Cup with.

That required winning playoff series.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

This is the most fascinating part of all this from me.

The Ottawa Senators have traded goalies with the Minnesota Wild, acquiring Cam Talbot in exchange for Filip Gustavsson.


Wouldn't Leafs going after Talbot and not Murray have made more sense for a team chasing playoff success?

I think just about everyone would prefer Talbot, but we don't know what the ask was from us from Minny; maybe they knew we were desperate and wanted an outrageous package. Then when we go for the Ottawa deal they go "welp, guess we held out for too much" and go for plan B.

We'll never know.

*edit*

The more I think about it, Im not sure about Talbot. Upcoming UFA, if he DOES have a good year then we are right back to square one.

Kind of a crap sandwich all around.

Ill give the Sens props though for this off season (did I just say that?)

 

[socko]

I don’t understand this logic of “wait and see” before commenting on the trade details. The circumstances surrounding the trade are known right now, they don’t change based on future performance, you made the deal with the realities at the time. Nobody here thought 50 percent retention was good value, given Ottawa was actively needing/wanting to dump a bad asset. This idea we suddenly had to up our offer because other suitors stepped up, only matters because we too were desperate, we put ourselves in a precarious position, which meant we couldn’t just walk away when the price rose. Nothing that transpires this year changes the fact we over paid for Murray, i don’t see other deals apologizing for being a “steal”. To me the deal is baked in, If he fails or not, we paid too much because of our own failings. There’s a reason Ottawa is ecstatic with the deal.​

I'd agree with this if you just replace "we" with "Dubas". I certainly wouldn't include myself in desperate to overpay for Matt Murray. I don't even believe a lot of Leafs white collar types were in that boat. It was most likely just Dubas.