Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Frostitute]

I'm not a Dubas fanboy by any means nor am I a hater...

I think he has done some really excellent things for this team. Most moves I AM a fan of. Boy was I pissed when we aquired Murray though. I feel strongly that we should have (and maybe we did?) tried to aquire a real #1 stud even if it was an over payment. That's just me though, I'm not a fan of the 1A/1B thing.

I think Dubie gets a little too much hate over the big 4 contract situation. Honestly, had covid not happened and the cap continued to grow as expected, I don't think any of this would be an issue. No one could have predicted it and I see a guy trying to make the best of a "shitty" situation. If you could even call it that? I mean, we have arguably the best goal scorer in the game, a top 3 or 4 playmaker (IMO), Nylander on an incredible deal even WITH covid AND signed one of the most coveted FAs I can even remember.

He just seems to be shit at aquiring descent goaltending lol. Who knows, maybe the new pair will work out. I wouldn't bet on it though.

 

[DarkKnight]

Shouldnt his stoutest detractors also say genius if it pans out well? I mean we are fans of the same team right? Name on the front of the jersey mentality

Gambling isn’t genius, putting yourself in a desperate situation is poor management. I mean he will get applause if it works out, but as we sit here today it’s a risky proposition and he’s been on the job for years, still no stability in net.

 

[Nineteen67]

Really interesting looking at numbers from Dec. 1st to the end of the year (around 60ish games).

Top 10 teams in terms of points % with team defensive rating (xGA) and team save% rankings:

1. Colorado: 12th best D, 3rd best team save%
2. Florida: 16th best D, 17th best team save%
3. Carolina: 4th best D, 6th best team save%
4. Toronto: 3rd best D, 27th best team save%
5. St. Louis: 23rd best D, 9th best team save%
5. Minny: 11th best D, 14th best team save%
7. Boston: 1st best D, 7th best team save%
8. Tampa: 5th best D, 10th best team save%
9. Calgary: 2nd best D, 11th best team save%
10. NYR: 9th best D, 1st best team save%

Not too many surprises really with Florida run and gunning their meh D and goaltending, the Rangers having the best goaltending in the league, etc.. but the absolute insanity that are Toronto's numbers really stands out.

The 4th best record with a 27th ranked save% is just crazy but I think most would expect the D to have been part of that issue but it was actually the opposite. The goaltending was that bad in spite of one of the best defensive teams in the league. That 60-game stretch may have been statistically one of the worst stretches of goaltending we've ever seen......and the guy starting most of those games (with an .896 over that stretch)) made the all-star team and got a 5x5 contract. (what a crazy world)

Still not understanding the level of hate for these changes. The new guys have to be better no? Murray certainly wasnt my first choice but I did like the Samsonov pickup coming off a decent playoffs.

I think the thing that keeps me optimistic about 28 year old Murray is that he has 2 rings and more clutch performances in big games than literally all of Toronto's goaltending combined for almost 2 decades (Belfour the last clutch guy we've had in net really).

Enough whining already and wait and see what we have here folks.

The NHL is never going shrink the schedule and/or reduce the number of playoff teams to make the regular season more meaningful.

 

[Nineteen67]

You just know that if things pan out with either Murray, or Samsonov, or both, that the Dubie haters (and really there aren't that many, just a vocal few) that they will not give credit to Dubas. They'll point to luck, fluke, or divine intervention. Even those who are ambivalent to Dubas' job thus far admit that this was a gamble, but if it works out, I'll give him credit for doing his due diligence.

If Murray or Samsanov steal enough games to lead them to the SCF it’ll be one of the biggest redemption stories in Leafs’ history.

I think it’ll be a success if they are tandem for 70+ games.

 

[Nineteen67]

Gambling isn’t genius, putting yourself in a desperate situation is poor management. I mean he will get applause if it works out, but as we sit here today it’s a risky proposition and he’s been on the job for years, still no stability in net.

I think the feeling amoungst fans and media is he’s known about the goaltending issues since the day he was hired as the GM and the solution in year five is to try and catch lightning in a bottle.

 

[saltming]

Gambling isn’t genius, putting yourself in a desperate situation is poor management. I mean he will get applause if it works out, but as we sit here today it’s a risky proposition and he’s been on the job for years, still no stability in net.

It depends on what you consider gambling. It's just risk assessment and judgment. Every step in life is a gamble but my point is shouldn't we all as leafs fan be happy if he's right and Murray and samsonov do well because it means we do well

 

[Zybalto]

Gambling isn’t genius, putting yourself in a desperate situation is poor management. I mean he will get applause if it works out, but as we sit here today it’s a risky proposition and he’s been on the job for years, still no stability in net.

I think I see the disconnect here between so many.

The "gambling" narrative being pushed by many, especially in the media, isnt helping much either.

When it comes to goaltending, ANY move was a gamble with the flat cap and what was available. Did the Oilers take any less a gamble when they signed Campbell (a guy who is north of 30 and only has one full season as a starter) to a 5x5 contract? He wasnt exactly great his last 30 games and has an injury history, breaking down if he's played too hard. How about the Caps giving Keumper 5.25x5 until he is almost 38? He was great during the regular season but It's rightly seen the Avs won the cup in spite of his poor play, which is unusual for the playoffs (and indicative of just how weak their comp was in the west really)

What move for any goaltender should have been done on our side? I don't think there were any truly stable options, that's for sure. Just "gambles" on what could be a stable option. What are these big alternatives available that make this move such a big gamble?

Personally, I would have liked a Husso or Comrie 2-3 year "gamble" to go with Samsonov but can see why Murray has upside as well (to go along with 2 free picks and only a 2-year commitment). Much like many other keepers, health will dictate how well this deal comes off (and LTIR is always an option if so) but it's not a bad deal yet and could turn out to be better than any deal signed right?

I mean, a career 2.18, .921 goalie in 51 games in the playoffs with two rings thats still only 28 and been stuck on a bad team might actually be the right move on a team that been crying out for clutch playoff goaltending.

Lets wait and see here. I'm scared of the injury issues (just look at what happened to Andersen again last season) but the hate for the contract before he has even played a game is a little silly at this point.

 

[Mess]

I mean, a career 2.18, .921 goalie in 51 games in the playoffs with two rings thats still only 28 and been stuck on a bad team might actually be the right move on a team that been crying out for clutch playoff goaltending.

Matt Murray in his last 2 playoff years with Pens after (those stats you posted) nearly got sweeped in back to back playoffs with Murray going 0-4 vs NYI sweep in 2018-19 and going1-3, losing the best of 5 play-in to Montreal in 2019-20 for a pair of round #1 losses.

Going 1-7 in his last 8 playoff games is anything but clutch, and was done playing behind Cup winning teams of 2016 & 2017 with Crosby and Malkin.

That is why he ended up in Ottawa, his playoff failures as a Pen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018-19 - Pittsburgh vs NY Islanders round #1

Apr 10 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at New York Islanders OT
Apr 12 Pittsburgh Penguins 1 3 at New York Islanders
Apr 14 New York Islanders 4 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Apr 16 New York Islanders 3 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins

New York Islanders win series 4 games to 0

Matt Murray playoff stats 0-4 record
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2019-20 - Pittsburgh vs Montreal round #1 (best of 5)

Aug 1 Montreal Canadiens 3 2 at Pittsburgh Penguins OT
Aug 3 Montreal Canadiens 1 3 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Aug 5 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at Montreal Canadiens
Aug 7 Pittsburgh Penguins 0 2 at Montreal Canadiens

Montreal Canadiens win series 3 games to 1

Matt Murray playoff stats 1-3 record
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets hope this isn't the Matt Murray recent playoff results the Leafs are gambling on to win a playoff series.

PS.. Ilya Samsonov is also 1-7 in his last 2 playoff series with Washington and both round #1 losses.

Leafs new goalies are a combined 2 wins and 14 losses in their last 2 playoffs series each combined, and the main reason their former teams Pens and Caps cut them loose.

These are not performances that lead one to believe Leafs are locked and loaded for a Stanley Cup run,
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Gallagbi]

Matt Murray in his last 2 playoff years with Pens after (those stats you posted) nearly got sweeped in back to back playoffs with Murray going 0-4 vs NYI sweep in 2018-19 and going1-3, losing the best of 5 play-in to Montreal in 2019-20 for a pair of round #1 losses.

Going 1-7 in his last 8 playoff games is anything but clutch, and was done playing behind Cup winning teams of 2016 & 2017 with Crosby and Malkin.

That is why he ended up in Ottawa, his playoff failures as a Pen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018-19 - Pittsburgh vs NY Islanders round #1

Apr 10 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at New York Islanders OT
Apr 12 Pittsburgh Penguins 1 3 at New York Islanders
Apr 14 New York Islanders 4 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Apr 16 New York Islanders 3 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins

New York Islanders win series 4 games to 0

Matt Murray playoff stats 0-4 record
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2019-20 - Pittsburgh vs Montreal round #1 (best of 5)

Aug 1 Montreal Canadiens 3 2 at Pittsburgh Penguins OT
Aug 3 Montreal Canadiens 1 3 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Aug 5 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at Montreal Canadiens
Aug 7 Pittsburgh Penguins 0 2 at Montreal Canadiens

Montreal Canadiens win series 3 games to 1

Matt Murray playoff stats 1-3 record
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets hope this isn't the Matt Murray recent playoff results the Leafs are gambling on to win a playoff series.

PS.. Ilya Samsonov is also 1-7 in his last 2 playoff series with Washington and both round #1 losses.

Leafs new goalies are a combined 2 wins and 14 losses in their last 2 playoffs series each combined.

These are not performances that lead one to believe Leafs are locked and loaded for a Stanley Cup run,
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Is this a concern? Do 86 point teams make the playoffs?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Going 1-7 in his last 8 playoff games is anything but clutch, and was done playing behind Cup winning teams of 2016 & 2017 with Crosby and Malkin.

Records are team stats, not goalie stats, he wasn't 1-7 in the playoffs through 2018-2020, and he certainly wasn't 1-7 in 2016 or 2017 when Pittsburgh won cups with him.

That is why he ended up in Ottawa, his playoff failures as a Pen.

No it's not. He ended up in Ottawa because he was coming off a down year, he was due for a raise, and Pittsburgh had Jarry emerge, who was also due for a raise.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not a Dubas fanboy by any means nor am I a hater...

I think he has done some really excellent things for this team. Most moves I AM a fan of. Boy was I pissed when we aquired Murray though. I feel strongly that we should have (and maybe we did?) tried to aquire a real #1 stud even if it was an over payment. That's just me though, I'm not a fan of the 1A/1B thing.

I think Dubie gets a little too much hate over the big 4 contract situation. Honestly, had covid not happened and the cap continued to grow as expected, I don't think any of this would be an issue. No one could have predicted it and I see a guy trying to make the best of a "shitty" situation. If you could even call it that? I mean, we have arguably the best goal scorer in the game, a top 3 or 4 playmaker (IMO), Nylander on an incredible deal even WITH covid AND signed one of the most coveted FAs I can even remember.

He just seems to be shit at aquiring descent goaltending lol. Who knows, maybe the new pair will work out. I wouldn't bet on it though.

I kind of agree with wanting a #1 stud goalie even if it meant overpaying, but the problem as I see it is that there are so few #1 studs in the game and none are available. Or in other words, can't blame Dubas for not doing something that's simply not possible to do.

I agree with everything you said about the big 4 situation.

As far as "shit at aquiring descent goaltending", I can understand that sentiment. I've had similar thoughts at times, not sure if that's fair or not but it sometimes seems that way. I'm pretty optimistic about our new tandem though, could be that that's based more on hope than logic but still, I like having two guys who both seem to have the potential to be good for us.

 

[Zybalto]

Matt Murray in his last 2 playoff years with Pens after (those stats you posted) nearly got sweeped in back to back playoffs with Murray going 0-4 vs NYI sweep in 2018-19 and going1-3, losing the best of 5 play-in to Montreal in 2019-20 for a pair of round #1 losses.

Going 1-7 in his last 8 playoff games is anything but clutch, and was done playing behind Cup winning teams of 2016 & 2017 with Crosby and Malkin.

That is why he ended up in Ottawa, his playoff failures as a Pen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018-19 - Pittsburgh vs NY Islanders round #1

Apr 10 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at New York Islanders OT
Apr 12 Pittsburgh Penguins 1 3 at New York Islanders
Apr 14 New York Islanders 4 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Apr 16 New York Islanders 3 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins

New York Islanders win series 4 games to 0

Matt Murray playoff stats 0-4 record
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2019-20 - Pittsburgh vs Montreal round #1 (best of 5)

Aug 1 Montreal Canadiens 3 2 at Pittsburgh Penguins OT
Aug 3 Montreal Canadiens 1 3 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Aug 5 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at Montreal Canadiens
Aug 7 Pittsburgh Penguins 0 2 at Montreal Canadiens

Montreal Canadiens win series 3 games to 1

Matt Murray playoff stats 1-3 record
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets hope this isn't the Matt Murray recent playoff results the Leafs are gambling on to win a playoff series.

PS.. Ilya Samsonov is also 1-7 in his last 2 playoff series with Washington and both round #1 losses.

Leafs new goalies are a combined 2 wins and 14 losses in their last 2 playoffs series each combined, and the main reason their former teams Pens and Caps cut them loose.

These are not performances that lead one to believe Leafs are locked and loaded for a Stanley Cup run,
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

All I can say here is that going by wins and losses is an awful way to evaluate goaltending.

Mrazek had roughly the same winning% as Shesterkin last season......

 

[socko]

Going into last year you had Jack Campbell coming off a 0.921 season with the Leafs and on a sweetheart contract. And you had Mrazek coming off a 0.923 season with Carolina and Dubas who was blinded by his unsustainable stats in this fluke year and overpaid for him. The spreadsheet lied.

This year we bailed Ottawa out of Matt Murray's contract and they're probably still in disbelief of their luck. Murray was sporting a 0.906 last year and has never really been considered among the best goalies in the league. His claim to fame is that 6 years ago he was coming off of back-to-back impressive playoff runs. We'll just call him the Chris Kontos of the Dubas run. And of course he played for the Soo, I mean of course he did. And then there is Samsonov who some feel is talented, but 0.896 is 0.896. If that was a batting average that would be really good, but unfortunately that's his save percentage last year.

 

[vpasla1]

Going into last year you had Jack Campbell coming off a 0.921 season with the Leafs and on a sweetheart contract. And you had Mrazek coming off a 0.923 season with Carolina and Dubas who was blinded by his unsustainable stats in this fluke year and overpaid for him. The spreadsheet lied.

This year we bailed Ottawa out of Matt Murray's contract and they're probably still in disbelief of their luck. Murray was sporting a 0.906 last year and has never really been considered among the best goalies in the league. His claim to fame is that 6 years ago he was coming off of back-to-back impressive playoff runs. We'll just call him the Chris Kontos of the Dubas run. And of course he played for the Soo, I mean of course he did. And then there is Samsonov who some feel is talented, but 0.896 is 0.896. If that was a batting average that would be really good, but unfortunately that's his save percentage last year.

So the 0.923 Mrazek has unsustainable stats in this fluke year.
But for Samsonov, 0.896 is 0.896?

 

[socko]

0.902 for his career if that makes you feel better.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So the 0.923 Mrazek has unsustainable stats in this fluke year.
But for Samsonov, 0.896 is 0.896?

Don't you see...

If Dubas gets players coming off good years, then he's an idiot who believed his lying spreadsheets.
If Dubas gets players coming off poor years, then he's an idiot who got bad players.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Maybe theyre tanking

 

[socko]

Don't you see...

If Dubas gets players coming off good years, then he's an idiot who believed his lying spreadsheets.
If Dubas gets players coming off poor years, then he's an idiot who got bad players.

When the spreadsheet is based on a 12 game sample size from a goalie that is always injured (warning signs here Dubie?) and when the eye test says this players technique sucks and he's out of position all the time, then yes it's on Dubas.

 

[notbias]

Matt Murray in his last 2 playoff years with Pens after (those stats you posted) nearly got sweeped in back to back playoffs with Murray going 0-4 vs NYI sweep in 2018-19 and going1-3, losing the best of 5 play-in to Montreal in 2019-20 for a pair of round #1 losses.

Going 1-7 in his last 8 playoff games is anything but clutch, and was done playing behind Cup winning teams of 2016 & 2017 with Crosby and Malkin.

That is why he ended up in Ottawa, his playoff failures as a Pen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018-19 - Pittsburgh vs NY Islanders round #1

Apr 10 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at New York Islanders OT
Apr 12 Pittsburgh Penguins 1 3 at New York Islanders
Apr 14 New York Islanders 4 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Apr 16 New York Islanders 3 1 at Pittsburgh Penguins

New York Islanders win series 4 games to 0

Matt Murray playoff stats 0-4 record
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2019-20 - Pittsburgh vs Montreal round #1 (best of 5)

Aug 1 Montreal Canadiens 3 2 at Pittsburgh Penguins OT
Aug 3 Montreal Canadiens 1 3 at Pittsburgh Penguins
Aug 5 Pittsburgh Penguins 3 4 at Montreal Canadiens
Aug 7 Pittsburgh Penguins 0 2 at Montreal Canadiens

Montreal Canadiens win series 3 games to 1

Matt Murray playoff stats 1-3 record
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets hope this isn't the Matt Murray recent playoff results the Leafs are gambling on to win a playoff series.

PS.. Ilya Samsonov is also 1-7 in his last 2 playoff series with Washington and both round #1 losses.

Leafs new goalies are a combined 2 wins and 14 losses in their last 2 playoffs series each combined, and the main reason their former teams Pens and Caps cut them loose.

These are not performances that lead one to believe Leafs are locked and loaded for a Stanley Cup run,
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Why only an 8 game sample? Can we use a 7 game sample for Marner/Matthews to show how good they are in the playoffs?

When the spreadsheet is based on a 12 game sample size from a goalie that is always injured (warning signs here Dubie?) and when the eye test says this players technique sucks and he's out of position all the time, then yes it's on Dubas.

Didn't Toronto's goalie coach already comment on this and see a flaw in his game and sees a fix?

 

[socko]

It's amazing how everything Yzerman does makes sense. I'm not the biggest believer in Husso, but Yzerman understands where his team is at. They're not contenders, so he's rolling the dice on young goalies. He can afford to do that. Dubas is clueless. He needs to win now to save his job. And he takes a high risk low reward move at the games most important position. Just not meant for the GM role.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

It's amazing how everything Yzerman does makes sense. I'm not the biggest believer in Husso, but Yzerman understands where his team is at. They're not contenders, so he's rolling the dice on young goalies. He can afford to do that. Dubas is clueless. He needs to win now to save his job. And he takes a high risk low reward move at the games most important position. Just not meant for the GM role.

So who should he have picked up? Vasilevsky? Shesterkin? Saros? Sorokin? Markstrom? Demko? Hellebuyck? Bobrovsky?

I bet if Mark Hunter traded a first for Samsonov half of you would be fist pumping and calling him a genius.

 

[ACC1224]

So who should he have picked up? Vasilevsky? Shesterkin? Saros? Sorokin? Markstrom? Demko? Hellebuyck? Bobrovsky?

I bet if Mark Hunter traded a first for Samsonov half of you would be fist pumping and calling him a genius.

Talbot for me.
They signed Samsonov, didn’t trade for him.

 

[socko]

I would have stayed with Jack Campbell because to me he represented the lowest risk option that probably would have taken a slight discount from what he signed in Edmonton for.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Talbot for me.
They signed Samsonov, didn’t trade for him.

no shit, sherlock.

So your risk is talbot instead of murray and samsonov, so youre still taking a risk during a period of being contenders.

Why is your risk better? What makes any sense in adding talbot whos never won anything?

It's clearly not. The goalies this fan base actually wants arent available. Whining and moaning about Murray and Samsonov instead of Talbot is like crying about your dad buying a second hand toyota truck because the kid down the street has a lambo.

Problem is that kids dad didnt even buy the lambo, his grandfather did and theres no more lambo's available so you get a toyota but even thats not enough. Youre gonna cry and say "maybe the ford could have been better, dad!".

I would have stayed with Jack Campbell because to me he represented the lowest risk option that probably would have taken a slight discount from what he signed in Edmonton for.

So you would rather tie yourself up with a long term risk at more cost than leave any options open in case a better goalie does in fact become available via trade or signing?

Sounds like mediocrity at its finest.

 

[socko]

I would play for this season, yes. Campbell had a 0.914 in a year where it is largely assumed he was playing with a rib injury. 0.921 the year before that. I'm not walking away from that for a guy who was good in the playoffs 6 years ago.

How many more chances is Dubas going to get? Is the ghost of Harold Ballard running this team?