Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Stamkos4life]

Here’s our summer goalie predicament in a nutshell. Lost our starter and turfed our useless backup. Desperate to fill holes, over paid for a former glory tender, then took a flyer on a head case with upside. When the dust settles, the Leafs are left with a maybe and a could, but at least we have two, which increases the odds. He’s gambling big time, the only comfort, he put down two markers so at least we don’t rely on just one. Now roll the dice and hope it works out, then his devoted followers can claim “genius”.

Even if the gamble fails, the dubas fan boys will just blame it on someone else.

It's been their MO for the last 4 years.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Even if the gamble fails, the dubas fan boys will just blame it on someone else.

It's been their MO for the last 4 years.

The Dubas haters will find some to trash Dubas while us Leaf fans will be the only ones left to enjoy the games.

 

[Stamkos4life]

The Dubas haters will find some to trash Dubas while us Leaf fans will be the only ones left to enjoy the games.

Well unfortunately for leaf fans, dubas has given us lots to trash him about.

To be clear, I had no issues with us giving dubas the gm position. But based on our results since 2018, the fact there are still dubas fan boys is insane.

If you haven't noticed the constant excuses being made for kyle and the never ending stream of scapegoats, you have drank far to much kool-aid.

 

[DarkKnight]

The Dubas haters will find some to trash Dubas while us Leaf fans will be the only ones left to enjoy the games.

It’s funny you find it enjoyable.

 

[Leaf Fans]

It’s funny you find it enjoyable.

I enjoy all the games and will continue to do so.

Well unfortunately for leaf fans, dubas has given us lots to trash him about.

To be clear, I had no issues with us giving dubas the gm position. But based on our results since 2018, the fact there are still dubas fan boys is insane.

If you haven't noticed that constant excuses being made for kyle and the never ending stream of scapegoats, you have drank fat to much kool-aid.

I never drink Kool-aid.

 

[DarkKnight]

Well unfortunately for leaf fans, dubas has given us lots to trash him about.

To be clear, I had no issues with us giving dubas the gm position. But based on our results since 2018, the fact there are still dubas fan boys is insane.

If you haven't noticed that constant excuses being made for kyle and the never ending stream of scapegoats, you have drank fat to much kool-aid.

I had no issue with Dubas either, apart from wanting Lou one more year. This idea people went in hating Dubas just isn’t true, nor is it true people thought Lou should stick around for years. At least I didn’t.

 

[Tarmore]

He’s quoting TSN, it’s right there in the post.

IMO scary may not be the word but anyone that isn’t concerned is lying to themselves

I think any NHL team should be concerned about how their Goalies will play when they change their starter AND back-up from the previous season. Even if you get the two players you wanted, from other teams (this may or may not be the case for the Leafs, I don't know). You just don't know how the goalies will perform, new team systems, new city, new coaches specifically goalie coach, etc.

 

[Tarmore]

Really interesting looking at numbers from Dec. 1st to the end of the year (around 60ish games).

Top 10 teams in terms of points % with team defensive rating (xGA) and team save% rankings:

1. Colorado: 12th best D, 3rd best team save%
2. Florida: 16th best D, 17th best team save%
3. Carolina: 4th best D, 6th best team save%
4. Toronto: 3rd best D, 27th best team save%
5. St. Louis: 23rd best D, 9th best team save%
5. Minny: 11th best D, 14th best team save%
7. Boston: 1st best D, 7th best team save%
8. Tampa: 5th best D, 10th best team save%
9. Calgary: 2nd best D, 11th best team save%
10. NYR: 9th best D, 1st best team save%

Not too many surprises really with Florida run and gunning their meh D and goaltending, the Rangers having the best goaltending in the league, etc.. but the absolute insanity that are Toronto's numbers really stands out.

The 4th best record with a 27th ranked save% is just crazy but I think most would expect the D to have been part of that issue but it was actually the opposite. The goaltending was that bad in spite of one of the best defensive teams in the league. That 60-game stretch may have been statistically one of the worst stretches of goaltending we've ever seen......and the guy starting most of those games (with an .896 over that stretch)) made the all-star team and got a 5x5 contract. (what a crazy world)

Still not understanding the level of hate for these changes. The new guys have to be better no? Murray certainly wasnt my first choice but I did like the Samsonov pickup coming off a decent playoffs.

I think the thing that keeps me optimistic about 28 year old Murray is that he has 2 rings and more clutch performances in big games than literally all of Toronto's goaltending combined for almost 2 decades (Belfour the last clutch guy we've had in net really).

Enough whining already and wait and see what we have here folks.

Great post! Too bad I can't like it twice

 

[Stamkos4life]

I had no issue with Dubas either, apart from wanting Lou one more year. This idea people went in hating Dubas just isn’t true, nor is it true people thought Lou should stick around for years. At least I didn’t.

One more year of Lou would've been huge.

But I thought some of lous rules were outdated like no facial hair or no high numbers.

Although it didn't take long for me to miss LL. I mean the guy inherited a sub 70 point team and within 3 years set a, then, franchise record of 105 points. He literally turned us around from being a constant bottom of the barrel team into a genuine playoff team.

I remember the dubas fan boys harping on Lou for failing to get past the first round on two attempts despite the fact we had just finished last place. Now their boy has had four shots and it's crickets.

I just don't understand how they can be so blatantly biased and seemingly not even notice.

 

[Tarmore]

One more year of Lou would've been huge.

But I thought some of lous rules were outdated like no facial hair or no high numbers.

Although it didn't take long for me to miss LL. I mean the guy inherited a sub 70 point team and within 3 years set a, then, franchise record of 105 points. He literally turned us around from being a constant bottom of the barrel team into a genuine playoff team.

I remember the dubas fan boys harping on Lou for failing to get past the first round on two attempts despite the fact we had just finished last place. Now their boy has had four shots and it's crickets.

I just don't understand how they can be so blatantly biased and seemingly not even notice.

I like and agree with most of the first part of your post. Lou was a very good fit for the Leafs, when they got him and most of the job he did in the beginning of getting things going. It's the later stuff he did when things were going in the correct direction that there were problems IMO.

I don't love everything Dubas has done I think he has done overall a passable job. I like his drafting and ability to find and sign players for development. He got a bit of a raw deal with the Covid freeze on the CAP as a rising CAP was a major part of his strategy with the big 4 signings.

 

[ULF_55]

Well unfortunately for leaf fans, dubas has given us lots to trash him about.

To be clear, I had no issues with us giving dubas the gm position. But based on our results since 2018, the fact there are still dubas fan boys is insane.

If you haven't noticed the constant excuses being made for kyle and the never ending stream of scapegoats, you have drank far to much kool-aid.

Oh, I think there is much blame and many recipients of that blame.

None of the following are off the hook:

Players​

Coaches​

Management​

​

Dubas is the one who brought in Mrazek, Foligno, Tavares, ...

Matthews and marner combined for 1 goals in a 7 game series against the Canadiens.

Keefe is the one who puts the lines together, and swaps out future defenders for 3rd. pairing no future defenders.

The list goes on and on.
Goaltender
Depth players
Contracts
...

If you only evaluate one aspect of the team, you're overlooking quite a bit.

And if you're giving credit to only one person for the state or wealth of the current team, again you're not looking at the entire picture.
Getting 2 top 4 picks in 2 years, isn't due to the efforts of one. It's due to the efforts of the past 3 GM's, Burke, Nonis and Lamoriello.
Lamoriello was gifted a team in full tank direction, and just kicked the legs out from behind.
marner was drafted before Lamoriello was even on the books. He just took advantage and helped plunge them into the absolute worst team in the league.

 

[mydnyte]

What about comparing goalies that played on the same inferior teams.

2021-22 Season

Anton Forsberg - OTT ... 46 games 22 wins 17 losses 4 OTL 2 SO with 2.82 GAA & 0.917 sv% and GSAx of +8.5 (16th best)
vs
Matt Murray - OTT ....... 20 games 5 wins 12 losses 2 OTL 0 SO with 3.05 GAA & 0.906 sv% and GSAx of +3.2 (28th overall)

Why would anyone think Murray is the better choice here and when both played on the same team and why would anyone use Murray +3.2 GSAx as something special vs +8.5 and played double the games?

So what is Murray's excuse verses his own teammate?

Ilya Samsonov on a 100 point Washington playoff team.

2021-22 .. Washington ... 44 games 23 wins 12 losses 5 OTL 0 SO with 3.02 GAA & 0.896 sv% and GSAx of -12.1 (107 overall)

Samsonov GAA wasn't much different then Murray's poor season even worse sv% and his goals saved above expected at -12 among the worst marks in the NHL.
vs
Jack Campbell ... 49 games 31 wins 9 losses 6 OTL 5 SO with 2.64 GAA & 0.914 with a GSAx -2.3.

i dont like Murray... didnt want him when Ottawa picked him up, didnt want him now.
Samsonov was my 2nd choice behind Vanecek, because even though Vamecek was the older, and 'lesser' prospect, he had a great high danger save % but, Samsonov is only 25 and still has good starter potential.

washington was just sloppy in front of their netminders, and pretty much hangs them out the same way we used to, and occasionally still do.
Samsonov looks better in person than on the stats sheets

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Here’s our summer goalie predicament in a nutshell. Lost our starter and turfed our useless backup. Desperate to fill holes, over paid for a former glory tender, then took a flyer on a head case with upside. When the dust settles, the Leafs are left with a maybe and a could, but at least we have two, which increases the odds. He’s gambling big time, the only comfort, he put down two markers so at least we don’t rely on just one. Now roll the dice and hope it works out, then his devoted followers can claim “genius”.

I agree with most of this post, but in regards to the last sentence… look I’m not a “devoted follower” of Kyle Dubas and did not want Murray but he’s risking his career on these guys, if they deliver a good/great/excellent performance then he absolutely does deserve the credit. But anything less than that and he’s gotta be fired

 

[Gary Nylund]

I enjoy all the games and will continue to do so.


I never drink Kool-aid.

Me neither. Water, coffee, beer and scotch for me.

I remember the dubas fan boys harping on Lou for failing to get past the first round on two attempts despite the fact we had just finished last place. Now their boy has had four shots and it's crickets.

I just don't understand how they can be so blatantly biased and seemingly not even notice.

It seems like you've made literally hundreds of posts like this. There are like 2 Dubas fan boys who think he can do no wrong, that's it. But there are dozens who seem to have the POV that everything Dubas has ever done is wrong, it's pretty tiresome and you're one of those people. Dubas is going to be around a bit longer so get over it and stop your whining already, geez Louise.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree with most of this post, but in regards to the last sentence… look I’m not a “devoted follower” of Kyle Dubas and did not want Murray but he’s risking his career on these guys, if they deliver a good/great/excellent performance then he absolutely does deserve the credit. But anything less than that and he’s gotta be fired

I didn't want Murray but TBH, I'm not sure what I wanted because there weren't a lot of options out there. Now that it's done, I'm fine with it. We have two guys with potential, we only need one of them to work out so the chances of that happening seem decent but I agree if they both suck then it would be hard to argue that Dubas should keep his job.

 

[DarkKnight]

I agree with most of this post, but in regards to the last sentence… look I’m not a “devoted follower” of Kyle Dubas and did not want Murray but he’s risking his career on these guys, if they deliver a good/great/excellent performance then he absolutely does deserve the credit. But anything less than that and he’s gotta be fired

Sure, I’m merely saying he’s gambling and that isn’t genius. I almost feel like it’s left to luck, rather than shrewd decision making, no matter the outcome. Come on 7’s…..

 

[saltming]

Here’s our summer goalie predicament in a nutshell. Lost our starter and turfed our useless backup. Desperate to fill holes, over paid for a former glory tender, then took a flyer on a head case with upside. When the dust settles, the Leafs are left with a maybe and a could, but at least we have two, which increases the odds. He’s gambling big time, the only comfort, he put down two markers so at least we don’t rely on just one. Now roll the dice and hope it works out, then his devoted followers can claim “genius”.

Shouldnt his stoutest detractors also say genius if it pans out well? I mean we are fans of the same team right? Name on the front of the jersey mentality

 

[WTFMAN99]

Shouldnt his stoutest detractors also say genius if it pans out well? I mean we are fans of the same team right? Name on the front of the jersey mentality

There's a world where Murray has like 9 awesome games in a row and then gets injured...some will say I knew it and others will still claim Dubas is a genius, it's just unfortunate Murray got injured even though he's more injury prone lately.

 

[Racer88]

Shouldnt his stoutest detractors also say genius if it pans out well? I mean we are fans of the same team right? Name on the front of the jersey mentality

If we win this year I will eat crow and tip my hat to Dubas

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Shouldnt his stoutest detractors also say genius if it pans out well? I mean we are fans of the same team right? Name on the front of the jersey mentality

You just know that if things pan out with either Murray, or Samsonov, or both, that the Dubie haters (and really there aren't that many, just a vocal few) that they will not give credit to Dubas. They'll point to luck, fluke, or divine intervention. Even those who are ambivalent to Dubas' job thus far admit that this was a gamble, but if it works out, I'll give him credit for doing his due diligence.

 

[saltming]

There's a world where Murray has like 9 awesome games in a row and then gets injured...some will say I knew it and others will still claim Dubas is a genius, it's just unfortunate Murray got injured even though he's more injury prone lately.

There is speculation that Murray was reluctant to play through any type of injury as he didn't trust the medical team in Ottawa.
Hopefully he has a good health record here

If we win this year I will eat crow and tip my hat to Dubas

I really hope you have to eat crow.
I just want the season to start so we can see what they new goalies and coaches can do.
Like it's time already

 

[saltming]

You just know that if things pan out with either Murray, or Samsonov, or both, that the Dubie haters (and really there aren't that many, just a vocal few) that they will not give credit to Dubas. They'll point to luck, fluke, or divine intervention. Even those who are ambivalent to Dubas' job thus far admit that this was a gamble, but if it works out, I'll give him credit for doing his due diligence.

I'm sure there will be some but I have faith others will fess up as @Racer88 just said

 

[socko]

I gave Dubas credit for Jack Campbell because that was a good trade. Campbell was a hidden gem on the LA Kings roster. Cheap, starter upside, not asked to start but backup at first. All around sound hockey decision.

I'm certainly not going to give him credit for Matt Murray because that was flat out a bad move. His job should be on the line this year. Key word should. And he choses to put on a blindfold and walk through a minefield at the games most important position. The Leafs window is now and I can't believe just how bad this guy is.

 

[Racer88]

There is speculation that Murray was reluctant to play through any type of injury as he didn't trust the medical team in Ottawa.
Hopefully he has a good health record here


I really hope you have to eat crow.
I just want the season to start so we can see what they new goalies and coaches can do.
Like it's time already

I do too

You just know that if things pan out with either Murray, or Samsonov, or both, that the Dubie haters (and really there aren't that many, just a vocal few) that they will not give credit to Dubas. They'll point to luck, fluke, or divine intervention. Even those who are ambivalent to Dubas' job thus far admit that this was a gamble, but if it works out, I'll give him credit for doing his due diligence.

Kind of like the Dubas fan boys blaming bad luck, the refs and just about everything else but Dubas.

 

[rocketman588]

Which of those players would you not want to sign? I can see only 2.

You also included drafted players and players signed for the AHL, so you should probably have those in your 23 man total.

Jumbo
Ritchie
Simmonds
Murray
Clifford

You can do better then all of them

I have no idea what you mean by the second part they all played for the leafs and were aquired by dubas