Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Dekes For Days]

And Murray who has been a trash goalie for 5 years has been performing at a high level?

Murray has not been a trash goalie for 5 years.

The only thing that happened was that you got caught trying to bullshit everyone about how good he is

Everything I've said about Murray is 100% true, and I haven't even been arguing "how good he is". I've just been countering false statements made about him, and pushing back on the people who think he's, as you put it, "trash".

Is he good based off this stat?

Last year, he was decent based on this stat, and had a positive impact.

Is he better then husso based off this stat?

Based on this stat, Husso had a better regular season last year, before being the worst goalie in the playoffs.

Does dubas value this stat?

He would utilize similar internal statistics, though that obviously doesn't mean using last season's list as the exclusive consideration.

There is no actual reason behind the move.

Of course there are reasons behind the move. We targeted a two-time cup winner that our staff was familiar with, that we felt we could help get back to what he was both stylistically and medically, that had a history as a starting goalie, of high end play, and of performing at a high level in precisely the critical moments our goalies have not. He's also relatively young and has short term,, and we picked up assets. Just because you choose to dismiss, or ignore, or disagree with reasons, doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Your player evaluation is terrible.

Name the teams that if their #1 center goes down they still can have a #1 and two #3s.

the rest of your post is on par with that.

You are in love with Dubas'. Without Mathews I don't this team does anything, we aren't on par with TB who could function without Stamkos . This team is not better than last year's so please accept why Dubas' will be fired if we lose in round one this year. I like our defense, if Sanding is signed, our goal is a question mark right now and I don't like our mix. Our stars' will get targeted and injured. All in all our odds right now are a quick exit, no first rounder and Dubas' gets ejected. It's better than 50/50 because we are in cap hell, yet another players walks for free as a weak prospect pool will reflect. You love Dubas' hopium and he has never won anything. 1967 the most pathetic record in pro sports. Then one day Mathews leaves saying, I couldn't bear the curse and I want a cup. And you never saw it coming because Dubas' is a genius and you like his glasses.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Both fanbases want to win, just one of them would have blown the Tampa team up after getting swept by Columbus and the other would have wanted to make minor adjustments.

I DON'T LIKE THE TRADE AND DON'T WANT MURRAY AS THE #1.

The "my life is so miserable, everyone else must suffer too" fans, are just exhausting, it is so tiresome listening to them yell about how we aren't a playoff team and we don't sign playoff winners, then we get a proven winner and he didn't win a cup recently enough. Those most recent stats are still better than Campbell/Husso/Kuemper/Fleury/any other goalie people wanted us to get, so what's the issue?

In the four years preceding the first round loss to the jackets, the lightening had won 7 rounds and made the finals once.

The anti dubas crowd just want at least a playoff series win, maybe two. Why do you think we would be upset with 7 in just four years? You are so deluded that you make up scenarios that aren't even remotely possible based on logic.

Right now we have zero wins in four years and the dubas fan boys couldn't be happier running it back for a 5th season but expecting different results. Isn't that called insanity?

Can you answer my question about what is more valid when evaluating a goalie? Or are you just going to keep simping for kyle?

The issue is that I've known since 2018 that with kyle as gm we would not be successful. I was called names and accused of not being a real leaf fan because I don't support dubas. You and the rest of your cheerleaders have been wrong for the least 4 season and yet you still act so smug and self confident. It's like you guys have zero self awareness.

How many more first round losses do you need before you accept that dubas is trash?

 

[Stamkos4life]

More likely the opposite. Many of the people who dislike Dubas want him fired and hope he fails and that happens. I am sure most people want the team to win, but not all.
It is a trick question. It if framed in such a way that there can only be one answer. When there are a set of fans who are against a member of the leadership who want to see that person fired over the team winning.
I can only identify which individual is cheering for the team to win - me. Though like I said there are people who are against one member, possibility more of the leadership.


More. We have 13.

The only ones making excuses for our failures are the dubas fan boys.

The actual leaf fans want results, not moral victories like getting respect in the hand shake line.

I made a poll and many dubas fan boys voted for the option that they want dubas to stay on as gm even if we keep losing in the first round. That is not a fan of the team. That is a fan of dubas.

No player is bigger than the team. No coach, gm or president is more important than the Leafs. It would be wise for the dubas fan boys to realize this.

 

[saltming]

You are in love with Dubas'. Without Mathews I don't this team does anything, we aren't on par with TB who could function without Stamkos . This team is not better than last year's so please accept why Dubas' will be fired if we lose in round one this year. I like our defense, if Sanding is signed, our goal is a question mark right now and I don't like our mix. Our stars' will get targeted and injured. All in all our odds right now are a quick exit, no first rounder and Dubas' gets ejected. It's better than 50/50 because we are in cap hell, yet another players walks for free as a weak prospect pool will reflect. You love Dubas' hopium and he has never won anything. 1967 the most pathetic record in pro sports. Then one day Mathews leaves saying, I couldn't bear the curse and I want a cup. And you never saw it coming because Dubas' is a genius and you like his glasses.

Stamkos is not the best player tb has. If they lost vasilesky what then?

 

[Leaf Fans]

The only ones making excuses for our failures are the dubas fan boys.

The actual leaf fans want results, not moral victories like getting respect in the hand shake line.

I made a poll and many dubas fan boys voted for the option that they want dubas to stay on as gm even if we keep losing in the first round. That is not a fan of the team. That is a fan of dubas.

No player is bigger than the team. No coach, gm or president is more important than the Leafs. It would be wise for the dubas fan boys to realize this.

There is nothing wrong with getting respect in the handshake line as long as it is understood that they are not in the respect game. They are in the winning game.

 

[Shooter2x]

In the four years preceding the first round loss to the jackets, the lightening had won 7 rounds and made the finals once.

The anti dubas crowd just want at least a playoff series win, maybe two. Why do you think we would be upset with 7 in just four years? You are so deluded that you make up scenarios that aren't even remotely possible based on logic.

Right now we have zero wins in four years and the dubas fan boys couldn't be happier running it back for a 5th season but expecting different results. Isn't that called insanity?

Can you answer my question about what is more valid when evaluating a goalie? Or are you just going to keep simping for kyle?

The issue is that I've known since 2018 that with kyle as gm we would not be successful. I was called names and accused of not being a real leaf fan because I don't support dubas. You and the rest of your cheerleaders have been wrong for the least 4 season and yet you still act so smug and self confident. It's like you guys have zero self awareness.

How many more first round losses do you need before you accept that dubas is trash?

You have to admit though that 2018 is way too early for ominous Dubas predictions. We just added Tavares and Muzzin as well. It makes sense the few people being pessimists that early would be drowned out. There was lots to look forward to that season and too early to evaluate Dubas. He still had a lot of street cred for his Hyman trade too. Hyman blossomed to the peak of his fan favorite and work horse phase that year to the point even our coach thought a one-legged Hyman was still one of the best work horses in the league.

The 3 year (sorry, 4) accumulation is a significant net negative though. The difference now is you have objective proof that he's average at best to date. Tables have turned. The pessimists are the logical ones and the optimists are reaching (pessimist / optimist in relation to Dubas not the team). Some of the shallow and blind support for him today is like listening to screeching nails on chalkboard.

 

[egd27]

2 cups and a .921 sv% are his stats

I find it funny now the people yelling about playoffs are trying to condense someone's playoff stats into their worst seasons and not using all the playoff stats of a player because it doesn't fit their narrative.

I still don't like the Murray trade, but the crowd who hates all things Dubas should love this based on their normal arguments.

See, that wasn't so hard. If he can get even close to the circa 2016 numbers, the Leafs should be in good shape.

 

[Stamkos4life]

You have to admit though that 2018 is way too early for ominous Dubas predictions. We just added Tavares and Muzzin as well. It makes sense the few people being pessimists that early would be drowned out. There was lots to look forward to that season and too early to evaluate Dubas. He still had a lot of street cred for his Hyman trade too. Hyman blossomed to the peak of his fan favorite and work horse phase that year to the point even our coach thought a one-legged Hyman was still one of the best work horses in the league.

The 3 year (sorry, 4) accumulation is a significant net negative though. The difference now is you have objective proof that he's average at best to date. Tables have turned. The pessimists are the logical ones and the optimists are reaching (pessimist / optimist in relation to Dubas not the team). Some of the shallow and blind support for him today is like listening to screeching nails on chalkboard.

I wasn't clear in my previous post. I started having doubts about dubas already in 2018 when he signed Nylander to such a player friendly deal. Will sat out on the team for 2+ months and dubas made up for the lost time by making sure will still got 6.9 for about 5 months play.

I was not against dubas when we hired him as gm. Hunter hadn't proven anything and I thought some of lou's rules were outdated. But it didn't take long for me to see that dubas is not a good gm.

Most are finally coming around but there is still, unfortunately, a large and very vocal segment of fans who seem to be fans of dubas first, Leafs second.

I even made a poll and many voted for an option which said that they don't care how many first round losses we get, they want dubas to stay as gm.

 

[notbias]

You are in love with Dubas'. Without Mathews I don't this team does anything, we aren't on par with TB who could function without Stamkos . This team is not better than last year's so please accept why Dubas' will be fired if we lose in round one this year. I like our defense, if Sanding is signed, our goal is a question mark right now and I don't like our mix. Our stars' will get targeted and injured. All in all our odds right now are a quick exit, no first rounder and Dubas' gets ejected. It's better than 50/50 because we are in cap hell, yet another players walks for free as a weak prospect pool will reflect. You love Dubas' hopium and he has never won anything. 1967 the most pathetic record in pro sports. Then one day Mathews leaves saying, I couldn't bear the curse and I want a cup. And you never saw it coming because Dubas' is a genius and you like his glasses.

check our record without him, facts arent on your side

 

[thusk]

The only ones making excuses for our failures are the dubas fan boys.

The actual leaf fans want results, not moral victories like getting respect in the hand shake line.

I made a poll and many dubas fan boys voted for the option that they want dubas to stay on as gm even if we keep losing in the first round. That is not a fan of the team. That is a fan of dubas.

No player is bigger than the team. No coach, gm or president is more important than the Leafs. It would be wise for the dubas fan boys to realize this.

Leafs will win when their best player will be the best at the right time and its not jist about matthews marner or Whatever but also on goaltender...

Last 5 leafs decisive game with Campbell...Sv % of Campbell was at 0.895%.. Thats why leafs didnt want to gave 5 year to Campbell and go with Murray who had a 0 920% on decisive game in Carreer...

Get the guy who can be clutche when the pressure is pretty high on him... Campbell just prove hes cant handle that pressure

 

[socko]

Campbell has only been eliminated from the playoffs twice. There is not a lot of pressure when only the other team can be eliminated. In those 2 elimination games, he had a 0.909 save percentage and gave up 2 goals and a 0.920 save percentage and gave up 2 goals.

I really don't think goaltending was the issue.

Ridiculously small sample size BTW to draw any conclusions from.

I do believe some important members of the team choked in these 2 elimination games, they just weren't playing between the pipes.

 

[rocketman588]

Campbell has only been eliminated from the playoffs twice. There is not a lot of pressure when only the other team can be eliminated. In those 2 elimination games, he had a 0.909 save percentage and gave up 2 goals and a 0.920 save percentage and gave up 2 goals.

I really don't think goaltending was the issue.

Ridiculously small sample size BTW to draw any conclusions from.

I do believe some important members of the team choked in these 2 elimination games, they just weren't playing between the pipes.

He also had a .930 against Montreal.

Freddy's were also
.915
.896
.936

More often then not we have had good goaltending throughout a series.

For reference in games where we're either facing elimination or have the chance to eliminate the opposing team Matthews has 4 goals in 13 games
(Caps, Boston, jackets, Tampa)

The 2.75 was such an absolute joke of an offer especially after what they gave mrazek. Why even offer if you're going to insult him like that
Probably could have done 4x4 before the year started.

I think Jacks season was very skewed by his injury we had a tough schedule to come back from that and he had begun to recover by the end of the year. I think he'll bounce back this year

 

[socko]

I think Jack will have a nice season too. And such an easy division to play in.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I think Jack will have a nice season too. And such an easy division to play in.

Jack is a good goalie too.

 

[thusk]

Campbell has only been eliminated from the playoffs twice. There is not a lot of pressure when only the other team can be eliminated. In those 2 elimination games, he had a 0.909 save percentage and gave up 2 goals and a 0.920 save percentage and gave up 2 goals.

I really don't think goaltending was the issue.

Ridiculously small sample size BTW to draw any conclusions from.

I do believe some important members of the team choked in these 2 elimination games, they just weren't playing between the pipes.

On every game leafs had a chance to eliminated his opponent with Campbell in the net( 5 time) Campbell was at 0.895%... so YES it was an issue...

Sometime you need your goalie able to make key save at the right time and sorry during those 5 game he never be close to be able to do it.

Last season game 7 vs montreal leafs only allowed 14 scoring chance and only 3 High danger shot... With those kind of defensive performance, Campbell should get a SO and not allowed 2 goal... just to giving you a comparaison, game #6 of colorado vs tampa who was almost a perfect defensive game of colorado. Avs allowed 29 scoring chance and 11 high scoring chance

 

[socko]

Last season game 7 vs montreal leafs only allowed 14 scoring chance and only 3 High danger shot... With those kind of defensive performance, Campbell should get a SO and not allowed 2 goal...

Katy bar the door isn't the Leafs style of play. Why the hell would you change to this style of play for the most important game of the season? Where the hell was Matthews? Where the hell was Marner? Where is the coaching staff? Go out and play YOUR game. The game you've been playing all season long.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Katy bar the door isn't the Leafs style of play. Why the hell would you change to this style of play for the most important game of the season?

Yeah, how dare a top defensive team put up a great defensive performance in the most important game of the season! Clearly Campbell would have done better if we'd abandoned all defense, so he's absolved of everything.

 

[socko]

Yeah, how dare a top defensive team put up a great defensive performance in the most important game of the season! Clearly Campbell would have done better if we'd abandoned all defense, so he's absolved of everything.

There were 18 teams that had a better GAA than the Leafs last season.
Yet another swing and miss for you.

 

[Dekes For Days]

There were 18 teams that had a better GAA than the Leafs last season.
Yet another swing and miss for you.

We were 7th in GAA in 2020-2021, the season being discussed.
And for the record, our goals against were inflated this past season because bottom of the league goaltending tanked our top of the league defensive results.
Yet another swing and miss for you.

 

[socko]

I'm discussing how the Leafs top players disappear in elimination games every season. It's a trend. Not just a one-off.
And now you would like to attribute that to goaltending to fit your Dubas narrative, but nobody is really buying it, including yourself.

 

[thusk]

Katy bar the door isn't the Leafs style of play. Why the hell would you change to this style of play for the most important game of the season? Where the hell was Matthews? Where the hell was Marner? Where is the coaching staff? Go out and play YOUR game. The game you've been playing all season long.

Tampa changed the way they played all the time, just like that

but its hard playing the way you want when you ALWAYS losing goalie battle and saw your goalie giving up weak goal in a key moment during a game...

And like deke was telling only 2 team having a better xGA than leafs last 2 season.. Calgary and Boston... toronto are a complete 200 feet since 2 years but their biggest weakness was goaltending

 

[socko]

Tampa changed the way they played all the time, just like that

but its hard playing the way you want when you ALWAYS losing goalie battle and saw your goalie giving up weak goal in a key moment during a game...

And like deke was telling only 2 team having a better xGA than leafs last 2 season.. Calgary and Boston... toronto are a complete 200 feet since 2 years but their biggest weakness was goaltending

If you think Jack Campbell's consistent 0.915 goaltending is bad, which is also what he has in the playoffs BTW, you better buckle up for next season....

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm discussing how the Leafs top players disappear in elimination games every season. It's a trend. Not just a one-off.
And now you would like to attribute that to goaltending

Actually, you made a comment that seemed to absolve Campbell of his performance and blame the team for putting up a great defensive performance in front of him. You then attempted to suggest that this was a departure from their normal style of play, even though they were a top defensive team all season. To try and support this suggestion, you pointed to goals against stats (which is bad enough in the first place since goals against is a combination of defensive and goaltending performances), but to make matters worse, you posted the wrong year and that same stat in the correct year actually contradicted your stance.

We've certainly run into some spectacular goaltending performances in elimination games, but interestingly, our top players are actually the only ones who have scored in a game 7 since the 2017-2018 playoffs 5 playoffs ago. They also scored every single goal in games 5, 6, and 7 this year. Where was Tampa's top players in game 7? Oh yeah, letting Nick Paul score all of their goals.

 

[ULF_55]

I wasn't clear in my previous post. I started having doubts about dubas already in 2018 when he signed Nylander to such a player friendly deal. Will sat out on the team for 2+ months and dubas made up for the lost time by making sure will still got 6.9 for about 5 months play.

I was not against dubas when we hired him as gm. Hunter hadn't proven anything and I thought some of lou's rules were outdated. But it didn't take long for me to see that dubas is not a good gm.

Most are finally coming around but there is still, unfortunately, a large and very vocal segment of fans who seem to be fans of dubas first, Leafs second.

I even made a poll and many voted for an option which said that they don't care how many first round losses we get, they want dubas to stay as gm.

You might find different types of fans.

Some wouldn't want Dubas fired unless (The unless could be minor to major.)
Some would want Dubas fire regardless. (Probably find people here who don't care about results.)
Some wouldn't trade their favorite player regardless. (They'd argue you can't get a better player than their guy.)
Some would trade anyone to make the team better. (?)

One thing we all can agree on is they are all temps, and everyone from President down to parking attendant and every single player will be replaced.

Heck in my lifetime there has been 7 owners.
Conn Smythe
Stafford Smythe
John Bassett
Harold Ballard
Steve Stavros
Ontario Teachers Pension Plan
MLSE (Bell, Rogers, Tanenbaum)

So for you youngsters, you will see player X leave the team, and if you're a Leafs fan, you'll remain a Leafs fan.

...

Let's hope (Leafs fans) that Murry can regain his form.
He just turned 28, which isn't old for a goaltender, and a year younger than Jack Campbell's first as a starter.
Samsonov turned 25 in January and played 44 games this year, only 5 fewer than Campbell.

I kind of like this gamble, it could be a complete disaster.
Leafs have been kind of boring recently, they win but looking at their roster that shouldn't surprise anyone.
However, winning you only infrequently felt the entire team was playing to potential and that included the goaltenders. Campbell pre-Christmas was all-star, post Christmas forgettable. Coming back with Campbell, not sure I'd expect any difference.