Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[andora]

I think this has been set up beautifully politically if it does crash. I mean on paper

- top tier and expensive medical team to support murray
- new goalie coach in conjunction with new goalies
- mid aged cup winning goaltender with loads of experience in his short career
- likeable
- younger high pedigree also brought in
- incredible talent needing harnessing see goalie coach
- relatively cost effective versus other limited experience options or other injury concerns
- murray specifically strong in high danger goaltending directly in response to campbells horror

 

[Leaf Fans]

It would have got them 1 step closer to being fired.

Maybe, it was the market rate at the time.

Yet we're devoting 6% of our cap to him while at the same time helping the sens get better at hockey.

Seems like we should have picked up a goalie who wasn't trash if those were the terms

Yes, he is in the lower half of NHL starters. He didn't help the Sens get better.How do you figure helped the Sens get better? He helped the Leafs get better.

 

[socko]

Maybe, it was the market rate at the time.

At the fools auction maybe....

 

[rocketman588]

Maybe, it was the market rate at the time.


Yes, he is in the lower half of NHL starters. He didn't help the Sens get better.How do you figure helped the Sens get better? He helped the Leafs get bette

He helped the sens get better by giving them more cap space for basically no cost so they could sign giroux.

He's in the lower half of NHL starters we shouldn't be paying 4.6 million for that it's idiotic

 

[Leaf Fans]

He helped the sens get better by giving them more cap space for basically no cost so they could sign giroux.

He's in the lower half of NHL starters we shouldn't be paying 4.6 million for that it's idiotic

The lower half of starters salary. Dubas didn't give the Sens anything. He wanted Murray and got him for nothing.

At the fools auction maybe....

Yes, although the NHL calls it the trade deadline.

 

[rocketman588]

Overall what is his record? What is the cutoff for stats? How many game sample sizes do we want? Are Matthews/Marner good playoff performers or bad?

What's hussos sample size? Murray has been sub par the last 3 playoffs he's been in

He was so bad in the last two that much like husso he got pulled before the series ended.

The last time he had a good playoffs stat wise was 16-17.

We should pick up Rinne I guess he was pretty good in those playoffs as well

 

[rocketman588]

The lower half of starters salary. Dubas didn't give the Sens anything. He wanted Murray and got him for nothing.


Yes, although the NHL calls it the trade deadline.

Him wanting a washed goalie is exactly the issue

Paying 4.6 mil a year for him makes it even worse

 

[Leaf Fans]

Him wanting a washed goalie is exactly the issue

Paying 4.6 mil a year for him makes it even worse

No, Dubas wanting a Cup winner is the issues. Paying 4.6 million for him adds to the risk- there is an injury risk, but the potential reward is mitigates that risk.

 

[rocketman588]

No, Dubas wanting a Cup winner is the issues. Paying 4.6 million for him adds to the risk- there is an injury risk, but the potential reward is mitigates that risk.

He hasn't been good in 4 years why don't we get Patrick Roy in that case

He has won more cups

Picking up a dude because he won a cup 5 years ago despite being trash since is the best person to have in your net obviously.

 

[Leaf Fans]

He hasn't been good in 5 years why don't we get Patrick Roy in that case

He has won more cups

He is retired for one. He enjoys owning the Quebec Remparts. He is 56 years old. Despite all that he would have to pass through waivers if he un retires, and we may not have the cap space depending on his demands - Hall of Fame goalies likely won't come cheap.

 

[saltming]

He hasn't been good in 4 years why don't we get Patrick Roy in that case

He has won more cups

Picking up a dude because he won a cup 5 years ago despite being trash since is the best person to have in your net obviously.

Lol
Dubas picked up Murray is young and has identified and started to change his technique to suit the present NHL game style.
I will post this link here again Woodley on the newest tandem of Murray and Samsonov and their journey in the NHL
It breaks down both new goalies.
Murray having won a cup is only bringing his experience of doing that to the team. Having cup experience is of value period for players at any position.
Murray's age is good too, not old for a goalie unlike your exaggerated example of Roy or Rinne.
There is no guarantee but Murray is trending in the right way after adjusting his technique

 

[DarkKnight]

I think we’d all have liked to see more retention but it has been reported by multiple sources that we were one of a few teams in on Murray, so their bargaining position wasn’t as weak as you wish you claim. Nobody with weak position can issue an effective ultimatum so your post kinda falls apart on itself

The thing missing in your argument, that we actually put ourselves in a position where we were so desperate to fill the net we had to compete with other teams for his services. Our bargaining position was very weak and Ottawa knew it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And Murray played 20 games and none since March 5th so why are his all of a sudden valid

All of them are valid representations of their performance in those samples, but 2 and 4 game samples from players with no notable history don't really tell us anything. I'm not even putting a ton of stock into Murray's 20 game sample last year (which is 5-10x bigger than the samples you're discussing), but if we're going to discuss their performance, we should be accurate about it.

He was the second worst goalie by GSAx

First off, you've now switched from worst goalie to second worst goalie, so you can't even keep your story straight.
Second, he wasn't the second worst goalie by GSAx either. Elliot was the worst and Jones was second worst.

We chose neither door and instead panic bought a guy because he played for the so

We didn't "panic buy a guy because he played for the Soo". We targeted a two-time cup winner that our staff was familiar with, that we felt we could help get back to what he was both stylistically and medically, that had a history as a starting goalie, of high end play, and of performing at a high level in precisely the critical moments our goalies have not.

It's obviously a garbage stat

Stats aren't garbage just because you don't understand how to properly utilize them.

You're claiming he's not a top goalie yet by the stat you're trying to jam down people's throat to justify our goalie choice he was significantly better then Murray.

A top tier goalie is somebody who consistently performs at a high level year after year, not somebody with 57 career NHL games and a half-season of good play. Husso had a decent regular season this year, but he bombed in the playoffs and he brings significant risks and concerns as well - like pretty much every goalie that changed hands this offseason.

 

[Nineteen67]

That was certainly a situation where we found ourselves on the wrong side of leverage but you would have to admit that Dubas was the guy who had to sort it out and not that caused it right?

Im pretty sure the guy that caused it just ran another team into the ground, blamed his excellent coach and is praying for another top 3 goaltending season to save his own butt right now. (even though they somehow actually missed the playoffs with top 3 goaltending)

Like any GM, Dubas has created his own messes but none on the scale of that really. That much dead cap on a washed up player is tough to sell (maybe if Vancouver was on his list, it might have been easier).

With a proper rebuild they could have easily absorbed it, and probably would have had some success by now.

 

[egd27]

Overall what is his record? What is the cutoff for stats? How many game sample sizes do we want? Are Matthews/Marner good playoff performers or bad?

Why not post your own stats as a rebuttal instead of complaining and deflecting because another poster answered you challenge successfully?

It's not hard to find most simple stats like playoff records.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I'm not a Dubas' gusher and I feel he just gambles and throws darts around trying to fix his own mistakes. Mrazek being his latest. He losses a first and people call him a genius. Mrazek was a bad signing.

Samsonov will be the starter if Murray falters. Dubas' did poorly with Ottawa only eating 25 percent because Dubas' gambled. So we have a bunch of wingers but they are small or soft. If Mathews gets injured we are screwed and weak up the middle. We have a coach who thinks Holl is good, can't coach youth and thinks Kerfoot is indispensable to the locker room. We are also in cap hell and can't sign our best young defender.

This team right now is further, not closer and Dubas' needs to run out of time this year. The NHL is not supposed be a training ground for GMs making fans suffer for years with b.s promises. 1967 the biggest losing streak in pro sports, says it all.The ownership deserves to lose market share. It's a disgrace. Dubas' isn't a genius, he is a kid without foresight gambling , never played hockey and is weak minded. Others GMs just laugh at him.

 

[notbias]

Why not post your own stats as a rebuttal instead of complaining and deflecting because another poster answered you challenge successfully?

It's not hard to find most simple stats like playoff records.

2 cups and a .921 sv% are his stats

I find it funny now the people yelling about playoffs are trying to condense someone's playoff stats into their worst seasons and not using all the playoff stats of a player because it doesn't fit their narrative.

I still don't like the Murray trade, but the crowd who hates all things Dubas should love this based on their normal arguments.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

wrong thread

 

[Maple Leaf]

not sure why leafs dont have a galoyes still

 

[Stamkos4life]

2 cups and a .921 sv% are his stats

I find it funny now the people yelling about playoffs are trying to condense someone's playoff stats into their worst seasons and not using all the playoff stats of a player because it doesn't fit their narrative.

I still don't like the Murray trade, but the crowd who hates all things Dubas should love this based on their normal arguments.

What is more valid in evaluating a goalie.

Their performance from 5+ years ago or their more recent seasons?

Murray's last 3 playoffs he had 0.908, 0.906 and 0.914.

It's funny seeing the dubas fan boys try to use stats from 6 years ago in an effort to make their hero look slightly better.

The people who dislike dubas just want us to win. The dubas fan boys don't care about winning and just want dubas to stay as gm.

Can you identify which set of fans are cheering for the Leafs and which are just cheering for a member of the leadership? This isn't a trick question.

 

[notbias]

What is more valid in evaluating a goalie.

Their performance from 5+ years ago or their more recent seasons?

Murray's last 3 playoffs he had 0.908, 0.906 and 0.914.

It's funny seeing the dubas fan boys try to use stats from 6 years ago in an effort to make their hero look slightly better.

The people who dislike dubas just want us to win. The dubas fan boys don't care about winning and just want dubas to stay as gm.

Can you identify which set of fans are cheering for the Leafs and which are just cheering for a member of the leadership? This isn't a trick question.

Both fanbases want to win, just one of them would have blown the Tampa team up after getting swept by Columbus and the other would have wanted to make minor adjustments.

I DON'T LIKE THE TRADE AND DON'T WANT MURRAY AS THE #1.

The "my life is so miserable, everyone else must suffer too" fans, are just exhausting, it is so tiresome listening to them yell about how we aren't a playoff team and we don't sign playoff winners, then we get a proven winner and he didn't win a cup recently enough. Those most recent stats are still better than Campbell/Husso/Kuemper/Fleury/any other goalie people wanted us to get, so what's the issue?

 

[notbias]

I'm not a Dubas' gusher and I feel he just gambles and throws darts around trying to fix his own mistakes. Mrazek being his latest. He losses a first and people call him a genius. Mrazek was a bad signing.

Samsonov will be the starter if Murray falters. Dubas' did poorly with Ottawa only eating 25 percent because Dubas' gambled. So we have a bunch of wingers but they are small or soft. If Mathews gets injured we are screwed and weak up the middle. We have a coach who thinks Holl is good, can't coach youth and thinks Kerfoot is indispensable to the locker room. We are also in cap hell and can't sign our best young defender.

This team right now is further, not closer and Dubas' needs to run out of time this year. The NHL is not supposed be a training ground for GMs making fans suffer for years with b.s promises. 1967 the biggest losing streak in pro sports, says it all.The ownership deserves to lose market share. It's a disgrace. Dubas' isn't a genius, he is a kid without foresight gambling , never played hockey and is weak minded. Others GMs just laugh at him.

Your player evaluation is terrible.

Name the teams that if their #1 center goes down they still can have a #1 and two #3s.

the rest of your post is on par with that.

 

[rocketman588]

All of them are valid representations of their performance in those samples, but 2 and 4 game samples from players with no notable history don't really tell us anything. I'm not even putting a ton of stock into Murray's 20 game sample last year (which is 5-10x bigger than the samples you're discussing), but if we're going to discuss their performance, we should be accurate about it.

First off, you've now switched from worst goalie to second worst goalie, so you can't even keep your story straight.
Second, he wasn't the second worst goalie by GSAx either. Elliot was the worst and Jones was second worst.

We didn't "panic buy a guy because he played for the Soo". We targeted a two-time cup winner that our staff was familiar with, that we felt we could help get back to what he was both stylistically and medically, that had a history as a starting goalie, of high end play, and of performing at a high level in precisely the critical moments our goalies have not.

Stats aren't garbage just because you don't understand how to properly utilize them.

A top tier goalie is somebody who consistently performs at a high level year after year, not somebody with 57 career NHL games and a half-season of good play. Husso had a decent regular season this year, but he bombed in the playoffs and he brings significant risks and concerns as well - like pretty much every goalie that changed hands this offseason.

And Murray who has been a trash goalie for 5 years has been performing at a high level?

Even by the stat you're trying to jam down people's throats he's been Terrible

The only thing that happened was that you got caught trying to bullshit everyone about how good he is

Is he good based off this stat? no considering his past performance that you're brushing off in another occurance if twisting yourself into a pretzel like usual

Is he better then husso based off this stat? no

Does dubas value this stat? Obviously not based on what he offered jack

The only reason this stat is valid for you is because it's the only thing that doesn't make this look like the dumbest decision of all time.

There is no actual reason behind the move. we panicked because we were about to not have a goalie and are now devoting 6% of our cap to trash

Both fanbases want to win, just one of them would have blown the Tampa team up after getting swept by Columbus and the other would have wanted to make minor adjustments.

I DON'T LIKE THE TRADE AND DON'T WANT MURRAY AS THE #1.

The "my life is so miserable, everyone else must suffer too" fans, are just exhausting, it is so tiresome listening to them yell about how we aren't a playoff team and we don't sign playoff winners, then we get a proven winner and he didn't win a cup recently enough. Those most recent stats are still better than Campbell/Husso/Kuemper/Fleury/any other goalie people wanted us to get, so what's the issue?

The dubas fans obviously don't care about winning as shown by the backflips you all do to justify our loss every year

 

[rocketman588]

Your player evaluation is terrible.

Name the teams that if their #1 center goes down they still can have a #1 and two #3s.

the rest of your post is on par with that.

Damn we're so well built we must have 7 cups!!!

 

[Leaf Fans]

What is more valid in evaluating a goalie.

Their performance from 5+ years ago or their more recent seasons?

Murray's last 3 playoffs he had 0.908, 0.906 and 0.914.

It's funny seeing the dubas fan boys try to use stats from 6 years ago in an effort to make their hero look slightly better.

The people who dislike dubas just want us to win. The dubas fan boys don't care about winning and just want dubas to stay as gm.

Can you identify which set of fans are cheering for the Leafs and which are just cheering for a member of the leadership? This isn't a trick question.

More likely the opposite. Many of the people who dislike Dubas want him fired and hope he fails and that happens. I am sure most people want the team to win, but not all.
It is a trick question. It if framed in such a way that there can only be one answer. When there are a set of fans who are against a member of the leadership who want to see that person fired over the team winning.
I can only identify which individual is cheering for the team to win - me. Though like I said there are people who are against one member, possibility more of the leadership.

Damn we're so well built we must have 7 cups!!!

More. We have 13.