Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[ACC1224]

I don’t love it. Really needed that extra retention as far as I’m concerned, and I would have flipped our return to another team to make that happen personally (if possible) but I still think it’s hard to call a deal where you give up nothing terrible (yes I know, cap space). It’s most definitely a gamble. And if it pays off Dubas comes away looking like a genius. If it doesn’t, well it could end him. Just my 2 cents

'Terrible' is a little dramatic I'll give you that but the situation presented itself with the chance to make out like bandits on this and instead it just feels like he took what was offered.
IMO, Murray can win the Conn Smythe and we'll celebrate but the deal will always look pretty bad.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I would have have liked more retention, but the Leafs got the goalie they wanted.

 

[ULF_55]

I'll just wait to judge the trade when there is some evidence to evaluate.

I know really isn't social media like but olde school.

 

[socko]

I'll just wait to judge the trade when there is some evidence to evaluate.

I know really isn't social media like but olde school.

That's called Monday Morning QB. I can tell you who is going to win the Kentucky Derby for the past 20 years too, but that really isn't very useful now. If I knew the next 20 winners, now that has value.

 

[Buds17]

I would have have liked more retention, but the Leafs got the goalie they wanted.

Precisely what this all boils down to (for better or worse).

 

[deprw]

'Terrible' is a little dramatic I'll give you that but the situation presented itself with the chance to make out like bandits on this and instead it just feels like he took what was offered.
IMO, Murray can win the Conn Smythe and we'll celebrate but the deal will always look pretty bad.

If Murray is a top ten goalie in this league, this will be good trade if his top tier goaltender in the playoffs this will be a great deal. In the end Ottawa paid us to take him and there is retention which takes into cheaper end of starting goaltenders. If he pans out it's good read those picks a side, who cares what they paid for us to take him, if his a real deal.

It still is a gamble and not a good trade in this situation all things considered, since this is mostly cap dump by Ottawa.

Have to see how he performs, but let's say he outplays Husso by fair margin and is pushing into top10 on stats and wins playing 55 games. Is that bad deal then? I don't think so, but is it likely? I don't know, seems like not many people think that happens, so it's a long shot.

Dubas chose Murray and we don't know if there was any chance to get him cheaper or with better assets. If his answer to our goalie woes I don't care about it.

I understand why people are skeptical, I am too. It wasn't good trade, but it can end up to be.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Where Dubas went wrong here? He waited too long and needed Ottawa to eat more of the contract.

 

[ULF_55]

He chose Murry over Comrie and others:

2024 NHL Free Agents

Tracking the status and signings of all NHL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

He could have outbid some signings and come in under Murray.

No hiding the fact he wanted Murray, and the throw in picks are a bonus.

End of season will determine a whole bunch of futures.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Where Dubas went wrong here? He waited too long and needed Ottawa to eat more of the contract.

From what I've heard, they weren't going to eat more because of their internal cap being a small market team. If that's the case, we can argue that Dubas couldve asked for more of a sweetener or got a 3rd team involved. IIRC Dubas said the cost to get a 3rd team involved was too high so they elected not to go that route.

 

[LeafEgo]

He chose Murry over Comrie and others:

2024 NHL Free Agents

Tracking the status and signings of all NHL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

He could have outbid some signings and come in under Murray.

No hiding the fact he wanted Murray, and the throw in picks are a bonus.

End of season will determine a whole bunch of futures.

Murray was acquired after everyone else was gone or spoken for and he was the only option left. And he himself would have been gone had he not been able to personally nix Dorions deal to Buffalo.

I dont know why we would buy the story that 'he was always our guy.' Doesn't seem like he was high priority.

We didn't get the 7OA deal because all better alternatives evaporated from the market and leverage plummeted.

 

[Menzinger]

Murray was acquired after everyone else was gone or spoken for and he was the only option left. And he himself would have been gone had he not been able to personally nix Dorions deal to Buffalo.

I dont know why we would buy the story that 'he was always our guy.' Doesn't seem like he was high priority.

We didn't get the 7OA deal because all better alternatives evaporated from the market and leverage plummeted.

Though not quite. The Murray trade happened before free agency had even started. The only other major trade that happened before then would have been Husso - which the Leafs likely could have upped Detroit's offer if they had wanted.

So while it's certainly still a huge question mark about whether Murray will be any good. I don't think it's that strange that he was likely the Leafs main (or at least one of the main) targets. Especially given that Dubas' had apparently attempted to trade for him earlier when he was on the Pens (Dubas' wanted him in the package for Kessel)

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Murray was acquired after everyone else was gone or spoken for and he was the only option left. And he himself would have been gone had he not been able to personally nix Dorions deal to Buffalo.

I dont know why we would buy the story that 'he was always our guy.' Doesn't seem like he was high priority.

We didn't get the 7OA deal because all better alternatives evaporated from the market and leverage plummeted.

7th overall was never on the table for us. Even the Buffalo trade was not straight up, and we don't know if there was anything else involved beyond that pick swap. There almost certainly was, because 7th overall is arguably worth 16, 28, 41, and 74. We can say 74 is about what they paid to move him to us, so Dorion was just happy to give up 28 and 41 in value (or close to it) for no real reason?

Even in a vacuum, dumping Murray's contract with 25% retained is not worth anywhere close to that pick swap straight up.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Not sure if anyone else said this but I personally think they went after Murray because he's won in the playoffs. He may not put up the same numbers Campbell and Andersen did in the regular season but who cares? It's the playoffs that matter. And as my dear old dad said once about salesmen, lots of people are competent at what they do but very few are good at sealing the deal. Time will tell but that's my theory on why he was their target.

 

[ULF_55]

7th overall was never on the table for us. Even the Buffalo trade was not straight up, and we don't know if there was anything else involved beyond that pick swap. There almost certainly was, because 7th overall is arguably worth 16, 28, 41, and 74. We can say 74 is about what they paid to move him to us, so Dorion was just happy to give up 28 and 41 in value (or close to it) for no real reason?

Even in a vacuum, dumping Murray's contract with 25% retained is not worth anywhere close to that pick swap straight up.

You would think people would learn that rumours are not actual happenings if they were it would have been 50% retention. People/posters were talking as if 50% was a given, and it wasn't and no other trade took place for Murray for us to know what the deal was.

Apparently ... it was rumoured ...

Sabres' attempt to acquire Matt Murray nixed by goalie's no-trade list

Equipped with cap space ahead of the NHL draft Thursday, the Sabres tried to acquire two-time Stanley Cup champion Matt Murray of the Ottawa Senators. A source confirmed the report

buffalonews.com

Reports: Sabres pursued trade for Senators goalie Matt Murray - Buffalo Hockey Beat

Right now, the Sabres only have one goalie, Craig Anderson, under contract.

www.buffalohockeybeat.com

I don't see any mention of 50% retention in 3 different posts(articles) so where did 50% retention come from?

 

[NoTeeth]

Not sure if anyone else said this but I personally think they went after Murray because he's won in the playoffs. He may not put up the same numbers Campbell and Andersen did in the regular season but who cares? It's the playoffs that matter. And as my dear old dad said once about salesmen, lots of people are competent at what they do but very few are good at sealing the deal. Time will tell but that's my theory on why he was their target.

Cups are a team achievement, but it's interesting his 2 cups are buried and I have to hear about guys who have "Won rounds".

 

[Ianturnedbull]

That's called Monday Morning QB. I can tell you who is going to win the Kentucky Derby for the past 20 years too, but that really isn't very useful now. If I knew the next 20 winners, now that has value.

We can't predict the future, but we can certainly look at trends:

PIT
19-20 38 games .899 SV %
OTT
20-21 27 games .883 SV %
21-22 20 games .906 SV%
sent to the AHL
2 games .918 SV%

Now you can leap off with these last couple of stats and say: "look at the upward swing!" The sample is too small. Many NHL back up goalies can start 20 games and can maintain a .906 SV%

Here's where I'm most concerned:

17-18
Concussion
18-19
Concussion
20-21
Litany of injuries including 8 games lower body and 6 games upper body
21-22
A longer list of injuries including missing 28 reg. season games upper body

His skill might still be there, but those injuries are a collar tugging party.

 

[banks]

The more I think about it, the more OK I am with this move. It's still a better move than Gorgiev or Kuemper as free agents. Those deals are already among the worst I can name for goalies.

Murray was the guy the organization wanted, and they got paid in picks to bring him in. Could be worse.

It's just hard to see it as a win when you add in the Mrazek situation. What a dud free agent signing, and then paying him to leave just to have a similar question mark in Murray to replace him. Frustrating.

 

[ULF_55]

We can't predict the future, but we can certainly look at trends:

PIT
19-20 38 games .899 SV %
OTT
20-21 27 games .883 SV %
21-22 20 games .906 SV%
sent to the AHL
2 games .918 SV%

Now you can leap off with these last couple of stats and say: "look at the upward swing!" The sample is too small. Many NHL back up goalies can start 20 games and can maintain a .906 SV%

Here's where I'm most concerned:

17-18
Concussion
18-19
Concussion
20-21
Litany of injuries including 8 games lower body and 6 games upper body
21-22
A longer list of injuries including missing 28 reg. season games upper body

His skill might still be there, but those injuries are a collar tugging party.

Definitely a concern.

Just like the last season, Mrazek and Campbell weren't the picture of health, and Campbell never was a starter before Toronto tried to make him into one.

The previous goalie, was injured for the 'Canes playoffs this year.

A top Vezina candidate in Calgary pooped the bed in the playoffs.
Colorado didn't even retain their starter, and won the Cup with him.

Goaltenders?

 

[Mess]

Definitely a concern.

Just like the last season, Mrazek and Campbell weren't the picture of health, and Campbell never was a starter before Toronto tried to make him into one.

The previous goalie, was injured for the 'Canes playoffs this year.

A top Vezina candidate in Calgary pooped the bed in the playoffs.
Colorado didn't even retain their starter, and won the Cup with him.

Goaltenders?

Leafs just have to hope that Matt Murray is not this year's version of Petr Mrazek.

There are lots of similarities that might scare one into thinking Déjà vu.

- Mrazek played in only 20 games due to injury and poor play last season, winning only 10 games .. Matt Murray played in only 20 games for the same reasons and won only 5 games.

- Mrazek was placed on NHL waivers, cleared and played games in the AHL.. Murray was also placed on waivers, cleared and played AHL games .. Both players just 6 months ago nobody wanted either the player nor the contract as they were trending out of the NHL, and even claimed for free was too high a price to pay.

- 1 year later Mrazek was a contract dump with Leafs 1st, Murray also a contract dump with retention and draft picks to unload it,

If Leafs find themselves in similar territory again next summer, and are now looking at dumping Murray's contract, it shouldn't come as too a big surprise seeing the similarities here going in.

What are the odds if Mrazek stayed that he would have turned his career around, probalbly about the same one would place on Murray going in?

Once bitten, twice shy !! But when you're playing with fire you're more than likely going to get burned.

Goaltenders?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

At this point, we can belly ache all we want, but what is done is done and now we just need to see how it plays out. What more can really be said that hasn't in 3000 posts?

 

[ACC1224]

At this point, we can belly ache all we want, but what is done is done and now we just need to see how it plays out. What more can really be said that hasn't in 3000 posts?

Still another month until camp. What else is there to discuss?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Leafs just have to hope that Matt Murray is not this year's version of Petr Mrazek.

There are lots of similarities that might scare one into thinking Déjà vu.

- Mrazek played in only 20 games due to injury and poor play last season, winning only 10 games .. Matt Murray played in only 20 games for the same reasons and won only 5 games.

- Mrazek was placed on NHL waivers, cleared and played games in the AHL.. Murray was also placed on waivers, cleared and played AHL games .. Both players just 6 months ago nobody wanted either the player nor the contract as they were trending out of the NHL, and even claimed for free was too high a price to pay.

- 1 year later Mrazek was a contract dump with Leafs 1st, Murray also a contract dump with retention and draft picks to unload it,

If Leafs find themselves in similar territory again next summer, and are now looking at dumping Murray's contract, it shouldn't come as too a big surprise seeing the similarities here going in.

What are the odds if Mrazek stayed that he would have turned his career around, probalbly about the same one would place on Murray going in?

Once bitten, twice shy !! But when you're playing with fire you're more than likely going to get burned.

Goaltenders?

More like:

Injured Goaltenders?

____________

I don't mind the situation. I just don't like how we got here in the first place. The overall theme is bad management. Shanny should certainly take the blame. It's not just Dubas. It's Nonis, Lou, and Hunter. If Shanny claims to have a plan of a long-term culture of winning then he should include goalies.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Still another month until camp. What else is there to discuss?

The world juniors and our prospects

 

[ACC1224]

The world juniors and our prospects

Boring

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Boring

What? How so?