Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Stephen]

In the games where the Leafs have been eliminated, they seem to experience a real short circuit offensively. They always of come out hesitant like they don't want to make a Dermott/Galchenyuk like error to cost the season and never really get things going offensively. For the most part Campbell didn't play badly in the elimination games vs Tampa and Montreal, but he did blink first. I think the decision to move on is partially about trying to get someone who can be a true backbone that can enable them to hunt for offense more freely.

Of course the armchair coach in me thinks if the Leafs are up 3-1 and 3-2 in a series they should play their best to avoid a Game 7 entirely.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Where’s the 1st round pick?

So much for the argument that Lou screwed over Dubas so bad that dumping one year of Marleau required attaching a f’ing high 1st round pick. Looks like other GMs have no problem avoiding that. Dubas has already done it twice now lol.

 

[socko]

Where’s the 1st round pick?

So much for the argument that Lou screwed over Dubas so bad that dumping one year of Marleau required attaching a f’ing high 1st round pick. Looks like other GMs have no problem avoiding that. Dubas has already done it twice now lol.

Dubas is usually the one wanting salary retained because he can't manage the cap. That's how he got bent over every way possible in the Foligno deal. A first round pick for an old broken down grinder with a bad back. Just tragic incompetence.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Dubas is usually the one wanting salary retained because he can't manage the cap. That's how he got bent over every way possible in the Foligno deal. A first round pick for an old broken down grinder with a bad back. Just tragic incompetence.

If I were the Leafs GM at the time I simply would’ve traded for the extremely undervalued top six scoring winger instead of the 30+ year old grit grinder with back issues.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If I were GM, I'd be hearing up for my 7th straight Stanley Cup defense.

 

[rocketman588]

A growing faction of the fan base was ready to run Potvin out of town on a rail during his last couple of seasons here. And Ken Dryden essentially did that signing the older Cujo to take Potvin's starting role. The result was an instant playoff team and 2 conference final appearances.

Was a shocker that Ken Dryden understood goalie play

 

[ULF_55]

You do know that goalies usually take awhile til they hit their prime.

How old is their other goalie?

 

[andora]

There were literally multiple teams - including reportedly the most recent Cup-winning GM - that offered a 1st for Foligno, for the record.

I don't think that said that sakic was going to give a first. I think all it did was confirm that they were heavily interested. I could be mistaken if something different than what I've seen and saw someone defend came out

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Would fans feel better about the deal if OTT retained 50%?

I doubt it.

The outrage (I think) is about how risky it is to go with Murray. Risky with Samsonov too.

Wing and a prayer/wish upon a star moves IMHO.

I wish we knew what the other negotiations were with other GMs and Agents. My guess it that TOR didn't have the assets or the cap space.

Irritating AF.

 

[Sypher04]

Would fans feel better about the deal if OTT retained 50%?

I doubt it.

The outrage (I think) is about how risky it is to go with Murray. Risky with Samsonov too.

Wing and a prayer/wish upon a star moves IMHO.

I wish we knew what the other negotiations were with other GMs and Agents. My guess it that TOR didn't have the assets or the cap space.

Irritating AF.

All the options were risky in their own ways.

- Husso is very inexperienced.
- Campbell was mediocre or worse (or injured) for over half last season
- Kuemper has a long line of injury issues including one to his eye
- Gibson an interesting bounce back candidate but he’s had 3 consecutive poor years now and the acquisition cost would still have been very significant

I think we’d have been willing and able to meet any of them on the money, but not for the term they each received.

We chose to pass. We weren’t forced into it by our cap

 

[ACC1224]

Would fans feel better about the deal if OTT retained 50%?

I doubt it.

The outrage (I think) is about how risky it is to go with Murray. Risky with Samsonov too.

Wing and a prayer/wish upon a star moves IMHO.

I wish we knew what the other negotiations were with other GMs and Agents. My guess it that TOR didn't have the assets or the cap space.

Irritating AF.

IMO, Sens needed to retain more or the Leafs needed to receive more to take the contract.

 

[Mess]

IMO, Sens needed to retain more or the Leafs needed to receive more to take the contract.

Ottawa was in a weak bargaining position, desperate to dump a bad contract of an often injured under-performing player, so they issued a "take it or leave it" ultimatum to the Leafs, and as we heard Leafs GM admit he took it.

Even after 25% retention Murray still makes more $4.687 mil than Mrazek $3.8 mil and Leafs GM was willing deal away Leafs 1st to dump that contract to make room to take on Sens contract dump.

Only in Toronto would you find this situation where you pay more to dump your own bad contract, to take on another teams even worse contract and get less in return to do so, and the GM admit publicly he knew this was the best he could make out of bad situation as he was desperate for a goaltender, which forced his hand.

 

[ACC1224]

Ottawa was in a weak bargaining position, desperate to dump a bad contract of an often injured under-performing player, so they issued a "take it or leave it" ultimatum to the Leafs, and as we heard Leafs GM admit he took it.

Yeah he must have missed the lecture on 'Using Leverage' during his formative years at Brock.

 

[Sypher04]

Ottawa was in a weak bargaining position, desperate to dump a bad contract of an often injured under-performing player, so they issued a "take it or leave it" ultimatum to the Leafs, and as we heard Leafs GM admit he took it.

I think we’d all have liked to see more retention but it has been reported by multiple sources that we were one of a few teams in on Murray, so their bargaining position wasn’t as weak as you wish you claim. Nobody with weak position can issue an effective ultimatum so your post kinda falls apart on itself

 

[29Potvin]

Where’s the 1st round pick?

So much for the argument that Lou screwed over Dubas so bad that dumping one year of Marleau required attaching a f’ing high 1st round pick. Looks like other GMs have no problem avoiding that. Dubas has already done it twice now lol.

What 6mil cap dump with a full NMC was trade recently? Not a fan of the Marleau trade but that was not the same as the deal for Murray. Marleau would only waive for Ari/LA/Ana/SJ and only waived because CAR was going to buy him out and he could sign with the Sharks.
Not apples to apples

 

[ACC1224]

What 6mil cap dump with a full NMC was trade recently? Not a fan of the Marleau trade but that was not the same as the deal for Murray. Marleau would only waive for Ari/LA/Ana/SJ and only waived because CAR was going to buy him out and he could sign with the Sharks.
Not apples to apples

Yes yet another example where Dubas found himself on the wrong side of the leverage. Just a brutal situation all around and a waste of another 1st.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

What 6mil cap dump with a full NMC was trade recently? Not a fan of the Marleau trade but that was not the same as the deal for Murray. Marleau would only waive for Ari/LA/Ana/SJ and only waived because CAR was going to buy him out and he could sign with the Sharks.
Not apples to apples

Murray wasn’t exactly willing to go just anywhere either. He nixed a deal to Buffalo. Clearly we had some leverage and that’s all we could get. Murray has a m-ntc clause which is practically the same and has an extra year on his contract which makes it even more of a risk on our end.

We got hosed in this deal because of Dubas going panic mode.

 

[Zybalto]

Yes yet another example where Dubas found himself on the wrong side of the leverage. Just a brutal situation all around and a waste of another 1st.

That was certainly a situation where we found ourselves on the wrong side of leverage but you would have to admit that Dubas was the guy who had to sort it out and not that caused it right?

Im pretty sure the guy that caused it just ran another team into the ground, blamed his excellent coach and is praying for another top 3 goaltending season to save his own butt right now. (even though they somehow actually missed the playoffs with top 3 goaltending)

Like any GM, Dubas has created his own messes but none on the scale of that really. That much dead cap on a washed up player is tough to sell (maybe if Vancouver was on his list, it might have been easier).

 

[ACC1224]

That was certainly a situation where we found ourselves on the wrong side of leverage but you would have to admit that Dubas was the guy who had to sort it out and not that caused it right?

Im pretty sure the guy that caused it just ran another team into the ground, blamed his excellent coach and is praying for another top 3 goaltending season to save his own butt right now. (even though they somehow actually missed the playoffs with top 3 goaltending)

Like any GM, Dubas has created his own messes but none on the scale of that really. That much dead cap on a washed up player is tough to sell (maybe if Vancouver was on his list, it might have been easier).

No he caused it as well.

 

[Zybalto]

No he caused it as well.

How?

 

[socko]

Yeah he must have missed the lecture on 'Using Leverage' during his formative years at Brock.

That was pretty obvious from the Big 3 contract negotiations. Nylander was about to spend a snowy winter in Sweden earning zero dollars....But he bet on Dubas being weak and inexperienced, good bet.

 

[Dekes For Days]

All the options were risky in their own ways.

- Husso is very inexperienced.
- Campbell was mediocre or worse (or injured) for over half last season
- Kuemper has a long line of injury issues including one to his eye
- Gibson an interesting bounce back candidate but he’s had 3 consecutive poor years now and the acquisition cost would still have been very significant

I think we’d have been willing and able to meet any of them on the money, but not for the term they each received.

We chose to pass. We weren’t forced into it by our cap

Yep, some people have difficulty understanding this. Every option this offseason had risks associated with them. We chose Murray because we believe in him, we got assets back instead of spending them, and we got term that worked for us, not because we had to because of cap.

How?

Cue the claim that he could have just dismantled the rest of the roster in order to carry 6.25m in dead cap and have an on-ice liability that didn't want to be there drag a competitive team down, as if that was any kind of realistic option. The lengths some go to blame a Lou mistake on Dubas is amazing.

Murray wasn’t exactly willing to go just anywhere either. He nixed a deal to Buffalo. Clearly we had some leverage and that’s all we could get.

Not wanting to go to Buffalo is not the same as only willing to go to Toronto. Reports stated that there was another team than Buffalo that was an option. Acquiring a player like Murray with retention for the purposes of playing for you is different from acquiring a player for a buyout resulting in 6.25m in dead cap and costing million of dollars.

I don't think that said that sakic was going to give a first. I think all it did was confirm that they were heavily interested.

We know from the All or Nothing series that multiple teams were offering 1sts, and reports were that Colorado was one of teams offering a 1st.

 

[ACC1224]

How?

He didn't leave enough cap space so he had no choice but to move the player.

 

[Orfieus]

Campbell isn't better than any of the goalies we have now. He was extremely good the first 2mths, then injured then fell off a f***ing cliff. He post a sub .900 save% against Tampa, but I will admit Vasilevskiy had the same save% but I don't give a shit how well the other goalie performed, had Campbell given Toronto at least average goaltending Toronto would have had a 120+pt season and made it past the 1st round

 

[notbias]

Where’s the 1st round pick?

So much for the argument that Lou screwed over Dubas so bad that dumping one year of Marleau required attaching a f’ing high 1st round pick. Looks like other GMs have no problem avoiding that. Dubas has already done it twice now lol.

Clearly have no idea about the Marleau situation, not surprised.