Proposal: Tor- Mon

[Ledge And Dairy]

Well, that's a direct way to tell everyone that you don't know what you talk about



Giordano is still good, maybe even better, but Chiarot brings more important tools for the playoffs on the table. Toronto knows. And he's cheaper against the cap, by a lot, too. He's a good/not great brutish top 3/4 dman, and every team need those

He is certainly not a top 4 dmen on a contender. You are just biased as a Habs fan

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

They need to move some players for that to happen. Who ? 4mil at least

Do you not get how LTIR works, if Muzzin is out until at least playoffs (which I consider likely) then no you don't need to move the cap out

 

[Gravity]

Respectfully disagree. He doesn’t move the needle much at all. Only if Matthews and Marner play at the level they are now, Leafs have a great shot. Chiarot or no Chiarot doesn’t matter.

You're the most pragmatic and respectful Leafs fan I've run into on this board. Agree with you on the core needing to get it done. Thing is Florida or Tampa is a very tough outing either way.

 

[cup67]

Do you not get how LTIR works, if Muzzin is out until at least playoffs (which I consider likely) then no you don't need to move the cap out

Muzzin will be back before playoffs, did you see him on the ice ? Looks good and said feels good . Leafs can sign who they want but need to be under or at the cap , include Muzzin plus leafs need him back by April to get ready for playoffs. So who do leafs move to sign ? No forwards , maybe Holl and Dermott , 3.5 mil to spend .

 

[seanlinden]

I agree about the number of 1st... but if Chiarot dont get a 1st, he will get the value of a 1st (prospect)

Doubtful, and almost certainly not in the form of a single-asset.

He's likely the 5th or 6th most desirable defenceman likely to be available at the deadline (Lindholm, Manson, Giordano, Chychrun, Klingberg).

Plus, you look at some other less exciting names likely to be available (Justin Braun, Colin Miller, Nick Leddy, PK Subban, Nick Leddy, Calvin De Haan, Rasmus Ristolainen); and there really is no reason to give up premium assets for a defenceman.

edit: Add Mayfield & Staal to list as well.

 

[cup67]

Doubtful, and almost certainly not in the form of a single-asset.

He's likely the 5th or 6th most desirable defenceman likely to be available at the deadline (Lindholm, Manson, Giordano, Chychrun, Klingberg).

Plus, you look at some other less exciting names likely to be available (Justin Braun, Colin Miller, Nick Leddy, PK Subban, Nick Leddy, Calvin De Haan, Rasmus Ristolainen); and there really is no reason to give up premium assets for a defenceman.

Could be but the cap hit is good and he would pair up good with Muzzin and the Sandin Holl , Rielly Brodie . The forwards stay as is . 4 lines that can play

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Muzzin will be back before playoffs, did you see him on the ice ? Looks good and said feels good . Leafs can sign who they want but need to be under or at the cap , include Muzzin plus leafs need him back by April to get ready for playoffs. So who do leafs move to sign ? No forwards , maybe Holl and Dermott , 3.5 mil to spend .

And this is where we disagree on Muzzin. I do not believe they rush him back.

 

[Bouboumaster]

He is certainly not a top 4 dmen on a contender. You are just biased as a Habs fan

He's top 4 on the Leafs too, especially if Muzzin is hurt.

He's top 3 on the Oilers lol

Good for you if he's top 6 on your team. He would still beat the f*** out of your forwards

 

[seanlinden]

Could be but the cap hit is good and he would pair up good with Muzzin and the Sandin Holl , Rielly Brodie . The forwards stay as is . 4 lines that can play

I'm not saying a "hard no" to Chiarot (although I can certainly see why somebody would, his advanced stats are absolutely awful, and Dubas likes advanced stats), simply trying to temper expectations as to what his realistic value is.

This year features a major buyers market. It's a combination of a lot of UFAs, a nonexistent playoff race in the east, and some of the higher seeded teams in the west not necessarily viewing themselves as "ready yet".

 

[cup67]

And this is where we disagree on Muzzin. I do not believe they rush him back.

It’s not a matter of rush , they need doctors approval that he’s not ready until playoffs. It would be nice for him to stay out and leafs add 2 players but it all depends on what doctors tell leafs in the next week or so . 2 months is a long time off , he skated off the ice on his own . Watching him at practice he looked good . Tavares started work outs after a month and skating , that was bad .

 

[Andrewcoursol]

he did manhandled Matthews and Marner in the playoffs last year though...

Tampa can give up a 1st and third just for that alone

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

He's top 4 on the Leafs too, especially if Muzzin is hurt.

He's top 3 on the Oilers lol

Good for you if he's top 6 on your team. He would still beat the f*** out of your forwards

Edmonton is a contender? LMAO

 

[Bouboumaster]

Edmonton is a contender? LMAO

The Leafs aren't?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

The Leafs aren't?

Not without Muzzin they aren't, even with its a bit debatable. Chairot in the top 4 doesn't make them suddenly a contender

 

[General Fanager]

Respectfully disagree. He doesn’t move the needle much at all. Only if Matthews and Marner play at the level they are now, Leafs have a great shot. Chiarot or no Chiarot doesn’t matter.

The core can go crazy in the playoffs and play amazing and they can still lose cause of the average Defence. He isn't Hedman or anything but Chiarot is an improvement on your 2nd pair for sure.

 

[Jerkbait]

Mon - Chiarot 50%retained
Tor- 1st 2022, 3rd 2023. , Demott

leafs d
Rielly- Brodie
Muzzin- Chiarot
Sandin- Lyubusjoin/Holl
Liljegren

Close . Leafs tweak and receive a 4th pick as well

 

[Bouboumaster]

Not without Muzzin they aren't, even with its a bit debatable. Chairot in the top 4 doesn't make them suddenly a contender

So who is a contender IYO?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

So who is a contender IYO?

Colorado, Tampa, Florida, Carolina, arguably Calgary but the other 4 are clear contenders

 

[Just a Fan]

Colorado, Tampa, Florida, Carolina, arguably Calgary but the other 4 are clear contenders

Good list. I’m a Leaf’s fan, adding Chiarot and or Fleury doesn’t make them a contender….could they go on a run? Sure….but nobody would call them a contender.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Good list. I’m a Leaf’s fan, adding Chiarot and or Fleury doesn’t make them a contender….could they go on a run? Sure….but nobody would call them a contender.

Basically if a team is going into the deadline with the mindset of "we need to perform some roster surgery" then they probably arent a contender.

 

[seanlinden]

The core can go crazy in the playoffs and play amazing and they can still lose cause of the average Defence. He isn't Hedman or anything but Chiarot is an improvement on your 2nd pair for sure.

Just because he's an improvement, doesn't mean he's worth trading a 1st round pick for. Lindholm, Manson, Giordano, Chychrun, Klingberg, Justin Braun, Colin Miller, Nick Leddy, PK Subban, Nick Leddy, Calvin De Haan, Rasmus Ristolainen, Scott Mayfield & Marc Staal would all be improvements in one context or another.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Colorado, Tampa, Florida, Carolina, arguably Calgary but the other 4 are clear contenders

Calgary is the team I pick to get out of the West because they bland talent, depth and toughness really well. They are IMO an improved version of the Habs last year, with a bit less depth but more high end talent up front.
Colorado got their lunch stolen last year by a much more physical team and the same for the Leafs, who choked when it got tough. I don't see Florida or Carolina doing any better.

Playoffs hockey is a different beast and soft teams gets exposed.

 

[thusk]

I'm not saying a "hard no" to Chiarot (although I can certainly see why somebody would, his advanced stats are absolutely awful, and Dubas likes advanced stats), simply trying to temper expectations as to what his realistic value is.

This year features a major buyers market. It's a combination of a lot of UFAs, a nonexistent playoff race in the east, and some of the higher seeded teams in the west not necessarily viewing themselves as "ready yet".

Avanced stats you need to know how to use it and nhl team dont count those stats the same way

	Last playoff	this season
Ice time	2nd	49th
Hits	3rd	72th
Entry zone delayed	1st	63th
1v1 battle won	1st	11th
Defensive zone pass blocked	1st	43th

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Toronto
Hits 30th
Entry zone delayed 27th
Defensive zone pass blocked 27th

 

[JustAHabFan]

Calgary is the team I pick to get out of the West because they bland talent, depth and toughness really well. They are IMO an inproved version of the Habs last year, with a bit less depth but more high end talent up front.
Colorado got their lunch stolen last year by a much physical team and the same for the Leafs, who choked when it got tough. I don't see Florida or Carolina doing any better.

Playoffs hockey is a different beast and soft teams gets exposed.

This. People talked about Leafs chance when Mathews & Marner go crazy in the playoff. Since when Mathews & Marner went crazy in the playoff? They are soft like butter in the playoff. The Leafs will get exposed when teams play tough in the playoff.

 

[Holymakinaw]

This. People talked about Leafs chance when Mathews & Marner go crazy in the playoff. Since when Mathews & Marner went crazy in the playoff? They are soft like butter in the playoff. The Leafs will get exposed when teams play tough in the playoff.

LOL. They're not 22 or 23 years old KIDS anymore. But you go ahead & cling to whatever you need to cling to.