Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] Marner re-signs (6 years, $10.893M AAV) Part III

[CupsOverCash]

Entitled to do what? Huh?

A business makes money. They are entitled
To make as much money as they can.

I have no idea what you mean?

Are teams that don’t make money and fans that don’t support teams entitled to have fans who do pay for them?

You do realize that’s the entitled part right?

Im saying just because you are popular doesnt mean you are entitled to spend on endorsements and at the same time can shame other markets for the good things about them. Its hypocritical and Im saying you are entitled because you are saying Toronto should have the advantage while others should not. TB doesnt have the same endorsements because they have been a team since 92 and are in FL where its not a very popular sport. Your in Canada where its a huge sport. I expect you guys to have that advantage but just that doesnt mean TB cant have what they naturally have too. Its not like they decide that they have this marginal tax advantage. They just take advantage of what is at their disposal and so is Toronto with their endorsements. All im saying is if they can have the endorsments TB can have the tax advantage. These are factors of where they are and its not really the teams that decide this. Its natural state of things.

 

[Drew311]

What has this thread turned into? Can this be closed considering there really isn’t anything relevant to talk about? After 3789 threads is there much point anymore?

 

[shortfuze]

The funny part of this, I’ve been a Leaf fan for more years then a big chunk of the Leaf board has been alive.......now they're my 2nd favourite team. But Jesus Christ man stop complaining about taxes & freaking weather when we (Leafs) hold arguably the biggest advantage of them all aka endorsements. Leafs could tank every single year and still make more money and players make more in endorsements then the cup winning team virtually every year. Man if some complain about that what would do if they cheered for a small market US team like the Wild or Canes etc or small market Canadian team like Jets or Oilers......they would lose their minds.

does anyone actually know how much money players make in endorsements?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

does anyone actually know how much money players make in endorsements?

Marner's endorsements list is growing. Anyone that keeps pointing to TB's favourable tax situation as the Point contract not being better should recognize Marner's favourable endorsements. Marner got paid huge compared to his comparables, and he has all these endorsements also that pad his wallet.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Marner's endorsements list is growing. Anyone that keeps pointing to TB's favourable tax situation as the Point contract not being better should recognize Marner's favourable endorsements. Marner got paid huge compared to his comparables, and he has all these endorsements also that pad his wallet.

Wow, Toronto truly is the centre of the hockey universe. Impressive.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Wow, Toronto truly is the centre of the hockey universe. Impressive.

With endorsements like these it's amazing how Toronto still manages to locks up their big players to home discounts.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

With endorsements like these it's amazing how Toronto still manages to locks up their big players to home discounts.

You don't really have an argument without:

a) Which endorsements are specific to him being in Toronto v.s. national
b) How much does he really make from those

Most valuable endorsements are national.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You don't really have an argument without:

a) Which endorsements are specific to him being in Toronto v.s. national
b) How much does he really make from those

Most valuable endorsements are national.

No. I think the list of endorsements cancels out the overused TB tax advantage just fine. Marner got 10.9 and the market advantage for loading up on endorsements being a Leaf. He plays for a higher profile market. This is indisputable. More people watch him. Thus he is marketable. This surely surpasses Point and his TB tax advantage narrative.

This list just going to grow if the Leafs stay popular. I don't think you are saying Leafs popularity is dropping are you?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

No. I think the list of endorsements cancels the overused TB just fine.

No, without knowing the value of the endorsements and if they're really part of marketing campaigns specific to Toronto v.s. national, we cannot make this assumption. But I know you will.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No, without knowing the value of the endorsements and if they're really part of marketing campaigns specific to Toronto v.s. national, we cannot make this assumption. But I know you will.

You know it, we all know it. But obcourse you will not admit it because it will make Marner's contract look even worse when you factor all his sponsers in. Point plays for a small market, Marner one of the biggest in the NHL. It's not that hard to figure out.

 

[TheDoldrums]

This list just going to grow if the Leafs stay popular. I don't think you are saying Leafs popularity is dropping are you?

Definitely not! The Leafs unmatched popularity will continue unabated, only growing as their exciting young team continues to dazzle audiences across Canada and the world at large.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

You know it, we all know it.

Sure whatever dude

But obcourse you will not admit it because it will make Marner's contract look even worse when you factor all his sponsers in.

Breaking: Better player got more money on more term. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that Leafs got them all long term, while improving the team in the toughest year to have them all done, and a cup contender for the foreseeable future. You're going to have to cope with those facts, as hard as it is for you.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Breaking: Better player got more money on more term.

Many people will disagree with you. Plus Point is goal scoring Center, Marner is a playmaking winger. Funny how the narrative changes. Goals are more important that assists...Centers are more valuable than wingers....Wish you guys would make up your minds....

Marner v Point, which contract do you prefer?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Many people will disagree with you. Plus Point is goal scoring Center, Marner is a playmaking winger. Funny how the narrative changes.

Marner v Point, which contract do you prefer?

*Centre

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Many people will disagree with you. Plus Point is goal scoring Center, Marner is a playmaking winger. Funny how the narrative changes. Goals are more important that assists...Centers are more valuable than wingers....Wish you guys would make up your minds....

Marner v Point, which contract do you prefer?

Anyone else find it hilarious that this guy is talking about narrative? Funny is certainly the right word here.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Also if we are having this conversation about taxes vs endorsments. It should be noted that its more impressive to have our gm talk his guys into taking less money to re-sign when there are teams out there like Toronto who can give extra money to players to come play there. With the endorsments I feel like it could (maybe probably should) be easier to sell a player on taking a discount to help the team win. Why didnt Dubas do this? I know they werent quite like the Lightning where they could sell that they know how to win and go far in the playoffs but they were clearly a good young team coming up the rankings. Why didnt Dubas try to use the endorsments to get the lower AVV and help the team compete down the line? Maybe Dubas just cant negotiate very well.

 

[DFC]

No, without knowing the value of the endorsements and if they're really part of marketing campaigns specific to Toronto v.s. national, we cannot make this assumption. But I know you will.

Sort of like everyone has the bare numbers on taxes but nobody knows the specifics of players' situations and therefore how much they're actually paying.

 

[DFC]

Sure whatever dude



Breaking: Better player got more money on more term. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that Leafs got them all long term, while improving the team in the toughest year to have them all done, and a cup contender for the foreseeable future. You're going to have to cope with those facts, as hard as it is for you.

The idea that Point won't be a Bolt long-term is cute. Like we've lost so many core players thus far. Nobody wants to stay. They all leave for money when their bridge deal is up.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Also if we are having this conversation about taxes vs endorsments. It should be noted that its more impressive to have our gm talk his guys into taking less money to re-sign when there are teams out there like Toronto who can give extra money to players to come play there. With the endorsments I feel like it could (maybe probably should) be easier to sell a player on taking a discount to help the team win. Why didnt Dubas do this? I know they werent quite like the Lightning where they could sell that they know how to win and go far in the playoffs but they were clearly a good young team coming up the rankings. Why didnt Dubas try to use the endorsments to get the lower AVV and help the team compete down the line? Maybe Dubas just cant negotiate very well.

I agree with you. It is easier for a GM to sell playing for Toronto than TB. When the Marner negotiations were ongoing, Toronto fans were bringing up the endorsements he would make in Toronto that he could sign for a team friendlier deal. Now that he hasn't. Posters are inferring that it is not that much. Maybe it is as you said, Dubas is just not a very good negotiator.

 

[nturn06]

Breaking: Better player got more money on more term. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that Leafs got them all long term, while improving the team in the toughest year to have them all done, and a cup contender for the foreseeable future. You're going to have to cope with those facts, as hard as it is for you.

I love the conversations:

hfboard: Dubas should had signed AM and MM for 8 years.
Leafs fans: no longer term would had been more expensive, Dubas is a genius for saving money.

hfboard: Point got a better deal.
Leafs fans: but we signed our players long term, Dubas is a genius.

 

[DFC]

Also if we are having this conversation about taxes vs endorsments. It should be noted that its more impressive to have our gm talk his guys into taking less money to re-sign when there are teams out there like Toronto who can give extra money to players to come play there. With the endorsments I feel like it could (maybe probably should) be easier to sell a player on taking a discount to help the team win. Why didnt Dubas do this? I know they werent quite like the Lightning where they could sell that they know how to win and go far in the playoffs but they were clearly a good young team coming up the rankings. Why didnt Dubas try to use the endorsments to get the lower AVV and help the team compete down the line? Maybe Dubas just cant negotiate very well.

Well, Dubas obviously doesn't negotiate well.

Each team has 81.5m. On a lot of teams, star players want their cut of that regardless of taxes or whatever else. Nothing's stopping TB players from saying they want their 13 or 14%. Except JBB.

Why did Bobrovsky charge Florida 10.5? Why didnt he say, "well, in take home pay, 8.5 is the same as 10.5, so just give me 8.5." he didn't say that because the tax advantage, while real, is exaggerated, and because not every team has built the culture TB has built.

 

[TheDoldrums]

It is easier for a GM to sell playing for Toronto than TB.

sure thing pal

 

[shortfuze]

Marner's endorsements list is growing. Anyone that keeps pointing to TB's favourable tax situation as the Point contract not being better should recognize Marner's favourable endorsements. Marner got paid huge compared to his comparables, and he has all these endorsements also that pad his wallet.

thanks for the list. Do you or anyone know how much he actually gets from endorsement though. I’m sure some are more than others.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I love the conversations:

hfboard: Dubas should had signed AM and MM for 8 years.
Leafs fans: no longer term would had been more expensive, Dubas is a genius for saving money.

hfboard: Point got a better deal.
Leafs fans: but we signed our players long term, Dubas is a genius.

He signed them at term but in a way that kept them all together for at least 5 years. Getting them all at 8 would be too expensive, getting them for three years means we need to structure the team to be able to pay them all in 3 years. This locks up most of the core and gives flexibility to extend the rest.

Having at least 5 years of Matthews, Nylander, Marner and Tavares positions the Leafs well.

 

[nturn06]

He signed them at term but in a way that kept them all together for at least 5 years. Getting them all at 8 would be too expensive, getting them for three years means we need to structure the team to be able to pay them all in 3 years. This locks up most of the core and gives flexibility to extend the rest.

Having at least 5 years of Matthews, Nylander, Marner and Tavares positions the Leafs well.

Excepting that he signed two of them for 5-6 years at what he should had given for 8...

Just for curiosity, what do you think that AM was gonna make if signed for 8 years?