Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] John Tavares signs with the Leafs (7 years, $11M AAV) Part III

[72hockey guy]

I get being upset he left, but calling him a liar and questioning his character makes LI fans look bad. Be pissed at free agency or the rules associated. Be angry at team things that happened that didn’t take advantage of his time there better. Be angry he liked the idea of Toronto better in the end.

He never lied to anyone. He gave you years of highest level of play at a low price. I’d be upset he was gone too but not like some of this crap.

He’s a liar and you can’t trust him.....cmon.

That can trust him for 7 years.

Oh so you were in the room? Ownership said he asked not to be traded.team mates claim he lied or misled them including Dobson and Wahlstrom. c'mon yourself

 

[72hockey guy]

Alluding to things like class and then attacking a man's fiancee is hilarious. Is that really where we want this thread to go? Also, stop with the claims of how the other Islanders players feel, as if you know them personally.

i have been told by a few personally do just because you don't know any doesn t mean they aren't

i was the one who brought up the possibility of his fiancee being the impetus of his leaving which I got from a former Islander player and current alumnus

Not a single Islander tweeted congratulations when he signed. This just shows you know nothing. The fact is I was right, no credit to me I just reported what I was told, just as I am now. The friend is a former Islander still connected to the team who I've known since I interned as a security staffer. He's never lied to me. So why shouldn't I believe him?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Oh so you were in the room? Ownership said he asked not to be traded.team mates claim he lied or misled them including Dobson and Wahlstrom. c'mon yourself

Do you have a source on all this? Genuinely asking.

 

[72hockey guy]

Do you have a source on all this? Genuinely asking.

Yes I do but out of respect for him I won't name
him but if you look in the archives of the isles team forum in February i was laughed at and mocked for repeating what I was told. Then it was only that former islanders personal opinion but since he was right and has never lied to me in 30 plus years I believe him. If he is than I've been duped but I don't think so. The man is a legend in franchise history. So I had no reason then or now to doubt him

the Islanders alumni community is super tight to the team since ledecky took over as most Islander fans of long standing know

 

[macleod50]

Do you have a source on all this? Genuinely asking.

There was an Athletic article by Arthur Staple the former Islanders beat writer for Newsday that included a blurb that said:

In exchanging texts with a few Islanders players, the reactions ranged from surprise to disbelief. I mentioned to one player that fans were posting videos of burning Tavares jerseys. "Don't blame them," was his reply.

A lot of fans are insinuating things from that blurb, but there's nothing naming specific players.

 

[Mach85]

i have been told by a few personally do just because you don't know any doesn t mean they aren't

i was the one who brought up the possibility of his fiancee being the impetus of his leaving which I got from a former Islander player and current alumnus

Not a single Islander tweeted congratulations when he signed. This just shows you know nothing. The fact is I was right, no credit to me I just reported what I was told, just as I am now. The friend is a former Islander still connected to the team who I've known since I interned as a security staffer. He's never lied to me. So why shouldn't I believe him?

Lol that's very convenient. And we're still talking about this nonsense re: no one tweeting him congrats? After the pic surfaced of Tavares looking awfully cozy with a bunch of his ex-teammates after the trade? Let's deal in facts here, not unverifiable figments of people's imagination.

You can't claim "inside sources" as an unverified insider just to give yourself the hammer in discussions here. Not only is it the height of intellectual dishonesty, it's also against site rules. Either put up or shut up. I mean, I have sources in the US government that tell me doctors are suppressing a cure for cancer, travel faster than light speed, and immortality. But I won't name the source out of respect. See how ridiculous that is?

 

[Marshy]

Burning a jersey...that's some fatal attraction stuff there.

 

[IWD]

We have. Trust me. But there's no reason not to be honest about his lying either.

Like I said, people change their mind. All the venting does is strengthen their resolve to not look back.

 

[72hockey guy]

Lol that's very convenient. And we're still talking about this nonsense re: no one tweeting him congrats? After the pic surfaced of Tavares looking awfully cozy with a bunch of his ex-teammates after the trade? Let's deal in facts here, not unverifiable figments of people's imagination.

it's only unverifiable to you. because you are not informed. anyone of long standing even loosely connected to the team knows.

How else would I have known it was possible in february.

The fact is that it was a subject of discussion but Tavares down played it by repeatedly saying he wanted to be and Islander . Which he said several times and by going to ownership and requesting he not be traded. Why do you think several long term islanders posters are all in agreement with this as betrayal? Don't you think they've talked to the same sources i have?

All the long term guys have I'm sure of it. Stan Fischler almost gave him self a stroke over it .just because you didn't pay attention says more about how informed you are than anything else

 

[glucker]

TWS

Ah, yea, I don't think he's UG. I think UG is genuinely a Leafs fan, just aggressively wrong about a lot of things.

 

[glucker]

He's Spasto? I never knew.

Huge Laine fan, "former Leaf fan" schtick, long-winded posts trying to make it look like he's taking the high road while consistently trolling the Leafs and their fans, and disappearing acts when proven wrong... so many similarities. The only difference is TWS pretends to "just be an NHL fan, completely impartial", while spasto is clearly pro-sens.

 

[Gary Nylund]

it's only unverifiable to you. because you are not informed. anyone of long standing even loosely connected to the team knows.

How else would I have known it was possible in february.

The fact is that it was a subject of discussion butTavares down played it by repeatedly saying he wanted to be and Islander . Which he said several times and by going to ownership and requesting he not be traded

This sounds like fiction. From all I've heard, when asked if he wanted to be traded his answer was no. That's very different from asking that he not be traded. Pretty low of you to smear Tavares with this made up nonsense. And BTW, TWS has been trolling the Leaf boards for years and holding him up as some paragon of virtue only makes you look foolish.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

it's only unverifiable to you. because you are not informed. anyone of long standing even loosely connected to the team knows.

How else would I have known it was possible in february.

The fact is that it was a subject of discussion but Tavares down played it by repeatedly saying he wanted to be and Islander . Which he said several times and by going to ownership and requesting he not be traded. Why do you think several long term islanders posters are all in agreement with this as betrayal? Don't you think they've talked to the same sources i have?

All the long term guys have I'm sure of it. Stan Fischler almost gave him self a stroke over it .just because you didn't pay attention says more about how informed you are than anything else

I don't know, maybe you went to any number of NHL sites that list people's contracts and said "Hey look, Tavares could be UFA in July".

 

[Mach85]

it's only unverifiable to you. because you are not informed. anyone of long standing even loosely connected to the team knows.

How else would I have known it was possible in february.

The fact is that it was a subject of discussion but Tavares down played it by repeatedly saying he wanted to be and Islander . Which he said several times and by going to ownership and requesting he not be traded. Why do you think several long term islanders posters are all in agreement with this as betrayal? Don't you think they've talked to the same sources i have?

All the long term guys have I'm sure of it. Stan Fischler almost have him self a stroke over it

How else would you have known it was possible that a guy who was in his UFA year might walk? Yeah, you were really going out on a limb with that one...

The bottom line is that unless you're going to put up with your "sources" or register with mods as a verified insider as per site rules, then you can't use such claims as the hammer in discussions. Or else anyone can claim the same thing. For instance, I could say I know someone close to John Tavares who told me that the team low-balled him on an offer and are lying about it to the media. I can't give up my source out of respect to them. Let's just stick to verified facts, please.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

There was an Athletic article by Arthur Staple the former Islanders beat writer for Newsday that included a blurb that said:



A lot of fans are insinuating things from that blurb, but there's nothing naming specific players.

That's the issue. The poster specifically mentioned Dobson and Wahlstrom, so you think there would be something concrete.

I don't doubt he told Snow/Weight not to deal him, but both of those guys are no longer there. That deal goes out the window as far as I'm concerned.

 

[macleod50]

This sounds like fiction. From all I've heard, when asked if he wanted to be traded his answer was no. That's very different from asking that he not be traded. Pretty low of you to smear Tavares with this made up nonsense. And BTW, TWS has been trolling the Leaf boards for years and holding him up as some paragon of virtue only makes you look foolish.

Beat writer Andrew Gross's tweet said Tavares requested not to be traded. It's been stated numerous times. I don't know why people continue to deny it.



This isn't to excuse management. You don't let the inmates run the asylum. Malkin screwed up.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Huge Laine fan, "former Leaf fan" schtick, long-winded posts trying to make it look like he's taking the high road while consistently trolling the Leafs and their fans, and disappearing acts when proven wrong... so many similarities. The only difference is TWS pretends to "just be an NHL fan, completely impartial", while spasto is clearly pro-sens.

And you are supposed to be? You personally attack people (which is in fact against side rules) yet I see you pull the same stuff.

 

[72hockey guy]

I don't know, maybe you went to any number of NHL sites that list people's contracts and said "Hey look, Tavares could be UFA in July".

Like I say believe as you wish. Nothing anyone can say will ever convince leaf fans of they don't wish to

I just have no reason to doubt the former alumnus who told me. Fischer rant and staples cryptic comments since only reassure me

And thanks for finding that Macleod 50 I looked but couldn't find it. There's more than enough evidence from those in the know. But some people don't wish to hear it

 

[glucker]

it's only unverifiable to you. because you are not informed. anyone of long standing even loosely connected to the team knows.

How else would I have known it was possible in february.

The fact is that it was a subject of discussion butTavares down played it by repeatedly saying he wanted to be and Islander . Which he said several times and by going to ownership and requesting he not be traded

a few things on this:

1) It's been reported that it's Snow that came to him saying he wasn't trading him.
2) Even if it's true, what kind of leader wouldn't stick with his teammates while pushing for a cup run?
3) Management still had the opportunity to request a list from him. Even if he did ask not to be moved(any evidence for this?), he could only list 8 teams he didn't want to go to. That leaves plenty of teams that would have been willing to give up serious assets for him.

I have no doubt he was unsure of where he'd end up. Assuming that Dubas/Shanny are lying about how late he made his choice, just for his PR efforts is a bit too conspiracy theory-ish, especially when there isn't a single source for a counter argument.

His teammates being surprised that he left speaks more to his uncertainty than to dishonesty, IMO. A locker room of 20+ guys, plus training staff, plus coaches, management, and whatever other personnel he was in contact with on a daily basis, and none of them have come forward with any kind of claim that they had a hunch he was leaving... people have intuition, there's a lot of cues you pick up on when someone is hiding something big like that.




If you want to talk about shady, the current Isles GM was supposed to still be a Leafs employee, but took meetings with the Isles without the team president's knowledge or permission, and then joined the team his son was working for, and tried to head his former team off in terms of signing JT, likely using his knowledge of what the Leafs plans were. Maybe this level of shadiness put JT off, and caused him to leave?

I'm not saying I'm mad that Lou left, just mad at how he left, but it doesn't' really matter anyways, because he's an overrated snake.

 

[NYI Fan 73]

Still the best signing of the summer!

First time here with HFB. I guess i'm in the wrong place since I'm not a leaf fan and what I'm reading I don't think anyone wants to hear me or anyone say something negative about JT.

 

[glucker]

And you are supposed to be? You personally attack people (which is in fact against side rules) yet I see you pull the same stuff.

It's not too hard to figure out who I am on HB.

What stuff do I pull?

 

[zeke]

Tried to delve down into per-minute stats for the guys that Tavares gets credit for boosting their scoring. This still is far from a perfect analysis, but it's better than the PPG stuff posted above.

Going to look only at Even Strength scoring here.

Parenteau

Age 27 NYI: 1.64p/60, 1.23p1/60
Age 28 NYI: 1.96p/60, 1.52p1/60
Age 29 COL: 2.13p/60, 1.74p1/60
Age 30 COL: 2.03p/60, 1.48p1/60

Don't think we can give any credit to Tavares for Parenteau, since he was more productive at even strength both years in Colorado than he was in his 2 years in NYI.

Okposo

Age 26 NYI: 2.03p/60, 1.57p1/60
Age 27 NYI: 1.86p/60, 1.45p1/60
Age 28 BUF: 1.28p/60, 1.09p1/60
Age 29 BUF: 1.28p/60, 0.97p1/60

well, there's very clear massive difference. Maybe Okposo just gave up on hockey after getting the big contract, but this looks like a pretty good example of a player's production falling off a cliff without Tavares.

Moulson

Age 28 NYI: 1.95p/60, 1.53p1/60
Age 29 NYI: 2.22p/60, 1.73p1/60
Age 30 MIX: 1.66p/60, 1.44p1/60 (half the season with BUF, quarter seasons with NYI and MIN)
Age 31 BUF: 1.58p/60, 1.20p1/60
Age 32 BUF: 0.98p/60, 0.75p1/60

Not as extreme as the Okposo example, but still a good example of Tavares likely boosting his production significantly.

other examples like Bailey and Lee we'll have a better idea of after this season, but right now we don't really have a point to compare on. I tried to look into the Vanek example, but i couldn't get a split of just his short time in NYI - and really, looking at his production with other teams that same year, I doubt it would show much Tavares boost - Vanek was really, really productive long before he played with Vanek.

But the Moulson and Okposo examples seem legit to me.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

It's not too hard to figure out who I am on HB.

What stuff do I pull?

Compare yourself to a snake oil salesman. You attack others you should get it right back. Keep drinking the Kool aid man.

 

[macleod50]

a few things on this:
3) Management still had the opportunity to request a list from him. Even if he did ask not to be moved(any evidence for this?), he could only list 8 teams he didn't want to go to. That leaves plenty of teams that would have been willing to give up serious assets for him.

I'm just going to keep posting this.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Like I say believe as you wish. Nothing anyone can say will ever convince leaf fans of they don't wish to

I just have no reason to doubt the former alumnus who told me. Fischer rant and staples cryptic comments since only reassure me

I am not sure what it is you wish me not to believe. I am pointing out how asinine it is for you to offer up as proof "how could I possibly know in February" when the entire world knew 7 years ago it was possible? I mean, as far as predictors go, that one doesn't exactly make you the Oracle of Delphi.