Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] John Tavares signs with the Leafs (7 years, $11M AAV) Part III

[Finnish your Czech]

This is about Tavares playing with certain players and how they did, and then how said players did without him.
To your point about special teams, you might have a bit of a point if it included special teams, but.... (from the article)

"I pulled these numbers by looking at players’ three most recent seasons playing alongside Tavares (at least 50 per cent of their 5-on-5 TOI with Tavares), and their three most recent seasons without him.
As you can see, The Tavares Effect is real. Much like The Crosby Effect was able to get Chris Kunitz a roster spot on Canada’s 2014 Olympic team, Tavares has been earning his wingers a lot of money over the past few years. After watching players like Moulson crater without him, I think the hockey world is becoming more aware of this phenomenon. Heck, Lee scored 40 goals this year and no one seems to be talking about it since we have such a long track record of Tavares inflating his linemates’ production (usually by about 20-25 points)."

The chart is close to meaningless without using points/60 instead of points per game. It's also quite meaningless when going by season, when they should be looking at intra-season statsitics (I.e. in 2017-18 Anders Lee had x points/60 with Tavares and y points/60 without Tavares) otherwise your sample gets too skewed since players change over long time periods.

 

[72hockey guy]

I'm glad leaf fans love their new star. I don't begrudge you that. It's how every single franchise should act, continually improve their product.

That said beware when a player preaches loyalty leadership and commitment for 9 years and proceeds to lie his way out the door.. He had every right to sign where he wanted. But he didn't have the right to lie about his intentions and lie he did. having asked not to be traded. And expressing his love for what was undoubtedly his team. Ownership had every reason to take him at his word. They even offered his agent a front office position several years ago. That was how much they catered to Tavares. He even went so far as to have tears in his eyes at the announcement of the Belmont arena and Islander ownership has lobbied a prestigious hospital to offer his fiancee a staff position. This further showing how committed they were to their captain.

But every speck of his self proclaimed loyalty and leadership and honesty went out the window when his modern day jezebel, Aryne Fuller entered the picture. Again I do not begrudge leaf fans or their owners. They did what every team should do. But the way the Twin Who res of Toronto went about it, is nothing to be proud of. Heck if he'd simply been honest he might have been a leaf sooner.

 

[justafan22]

I'm glad leaf fans love their new star. I don't begrudge you that. It's how every single franchise should act, continually improve their product.

That said beware when a player preaches loyalty leadership and commitment for 9 years and proceeds to lie his way out the door.. He had every right to sign where he wanted. But he didn't have the right to lie about his intentions and lie he did. having asked not to be traded. And expressing his love for what was undoubtedly his team. Ownership had every reason to take him at his word. They even offered his agent a front office position several years ago. That was how much they catered to Tavares. He even went so far as to have tears in his eyes at the announcement of the Belmont arena and Islander ownership has lobbied a prestigious hospital to offer his fiancee a staff position. This further showing how committed they were to their captain.

But every speck of his self proclaimed loyalty and leadership and honesty went out the window when his modern day jezebel, Aryne Fuller entered the picture. Again I do not begrudge leaf fans or their owners. They did what every team should do. But the way the Twin Who res of Toronto went about it, is nothing to be proud of. Heck if he'd simply been honest he might have been a leaf sooner.

hen his modern day jezebel, Aryne Fuller entered the picture.

I mean most guys here would probably do what's best for them and their future wife over their team honestly.

 

[IWD]

Is this for real? He put his head down and tried to make it work for years, acted professional by saying all the right things about the Islanders organization, and then left to go home to where he and his future wife are from.

Seems like he showed loyalty to his family and his roots.

 

[72hockey guy]

I mean most guys here would probably do what's best for them and their future wife over their team honestly.

They probably would. But be honest about it. If he had he might have been in Toronto sooner. Again it's not What he did. It's how he went about it. The lying and dishonesty to his friends and teammates. And ownership.

many Islander players feel he lied to them

 

[Liminality]

They probably would. But be honest about it. If he had he might have been in Toronto sooner. Again it's not What he did. It's how he went about it. The lying and dishonesty to his friends and teammates. And ownership.

many Islander players feel he lied to them

Mind sharing those sources of his lying? I've only heard about his not wanting to be traded talk.

 

[LamorielloAndSon]

The only way that this ends up being a bad contract for the leafs is if he can't play with Toronto media on his back, he was streaky as an islander and I hope his slides are far worse and longer in Toronto

 

[72hockey guy]

Is this for real? He put his head down and tried to make it work for years, acted professional by saying all the right things about the Islanders organization, and then left to go home to where he and his future wife are from.

Seems like he showed loyalty to his family and his roots.

Not when he told his teammates he would be back

He asked ownership not to trade him. When they said if he wasn't going to re sign. He continually said he wanted to be an islander. He stood there in tears as the plans for the new arena were unveiled and he called Noah Dobson and Oliver Wahlstrom after they were drafted to welcome them to the team. This wasn't just another player. this was the captain and people and ownership took him at his word Josh Bailey his closest friend on the team took less to allow Tavares to get a better contract when signing his 5 year deal.

No wonder Bailey feels betrayed

 

[Nizdizzle]

Tavares from from being a franchise center to being 3-4 years away from being an albatross anchor contract. Its hard to keep track nowadays with all these posters flip-flopping.

From some of the posts I've read, this is what the Leafs forward lineup looks like next season:

Hyman - Matthews - Swedish Gagner
Johnnson - Price/Toews Albatross - Small Gagner
Bust - Biggest Diver in the League - Gagner
Gagner - Gagner - Brown

 

[X66]

Parenteau actually had a better PPG average the first (strike shortened) season he played in Colorado then his best season in NY, so that sort of ruins that argument

As you mentioned, that was a shortened year, and it's not like Parenteau played with bad players, he played with Duchene when he was starting to get really good for the avs.

But this is what stuck out to me:

The man is a top 5, franchise center, there is no way around it.

Even on that top list for PPG, how many players played with a worse supporting caste than Tavares(linemates).

The Islanders did nothing to support JT so that he could reach his full potential.

 

[BM14]

They probably would. But be honest about it. If he had he might have been in Toronto sooner. Again it's not What he did. It's how he went about it. The lying and dishonesty to his friends and teammates. And ownership.

many Islander players feel he lied to them

Then they should grow a set of balls and have played better the last 9 years. Should they not backpay him for the massive discount he took on his last contract?

They sucked, the franchise sucked and he exercised his union negotiated right to pick and choose where he went when his contract was up - and he did. He chose a better team with a brighter future that happened to be his hometown team.

 

[Marshy]

I feel for Islander fans. I don't like the attacking of the fiancee stuff but I understand the anger and the feelings of rejection and betrayal.

I really do believe that JT was torn. I think we have all been in a situation where we have a choice to make and whichever way we go is going to hurt or haunt us.

I hope Islander fans can heal and get past this some day and return to prominence. We (Leaf fans) have your guy to cheer for now. We are a team who has been through decades of pain and futility for our fanbase. I guess it's that pain that has me feeling empathy for Islander fans right now.

 

[IWD]

Not when he told his teammates he would be back

He asked ownership not to trade him. When they said if he wasn't going to re sign. He continually said he wanted to be an islander. He stood there in tears as the plans for the new arena were unveiled and he called Noah Dobson and Oliver Wahlstrom after they were drafted to welcome them to the team. This wasn't just another player.this was the captain and people and ownership took him at his word

Sometimes you change your mind. It's just a game, and there are more important things happening right now that people should be upset about. Sucks, yes, but it's not like you just lost your spouse or your home. The fanbase will get over it. Faster if they give it some perspective of what's important in life.

 

[72hockey guy]

Then they should grow a set of balls and have played better the last 9 years. Should they not backpay him for the massive discount he took on his last contract?

They sucked, the franchise sucked and he exercised his union negotiated right to pick and choose where he went when his contract was up - and he did. He chose a better team with a brighter future that happened to be his hometown team.

listen he had every right to sign in toronto.I don't deny that. And I understand leaf fans are going to bend over backwards to make excuses for him it's not like leaf fans are paragons of virtue on these boards. youd welcome Judas Iscariot to the team of he helped you win games. All in saying is the way he went about it was less than honest.

 

[BM14]

listen he had every right to sign in toronto.I don't deny that. And I understand leaf fans are going to bend over backwards to make excuses for him it's not like leaf fans are paragons of virtue on these boards. youd welcome Judas Iscariot to the team of he helped you win games. All in saying is the way he went about it was less than honest.

MATT MARTIN SHOULD BE SO OFFENDED HE WAS TRADED TO LI AFTER HE SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH THE TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS. ITS NOT FAIR!!!! HE WANTED TO BE HERE~!!!!

 

[Mach85]

Alluding to things like class and then attacking a man's fiancee is hilarious. Is that really where we want this thread to go? Also, stop with the claims of how the other Islanders players feel, as if you know them personally.

 

[72hockey guy]

Sometimes you change your mind. It's just a game, and there are more important things happening right now that people should be upset about. Sucks, yes, but it's not like you just lost your spouse or your home. The fanbase will get over it. Faster if they give it some perspective of what's important in life.

We have. Trust me. But there's no reason not to be honest about his lying either.

 

[LamorielloAndSon]

I feel for Islander fans. I don't like the attacking of the fiancee stuff but I understand the anger and the feelings of rejection and betrayal.

I really do believe that JT was torn. I think we have all been in a situation where we have a choice to make and whichever way we go is going to hurt or haunt us.

I hope Islander fans can heal and get past this some day and return to prominence. We (Leaf fans) have your guy to cheer for now. We are a team who has been through decades of pain and futility for our fanbase. I guess it's that pain that has me feeling empathy for Islander fans right now.

Who would've been hurt if he stayed?

 

[Marshy]

Who would've been hurt if he stayed?

Tavares being torn and not listening to his gut out of loyalty to his Islander family.

 

[Cor]

listen he had every right to sign in toronto.I don't deny that. And I understand leaf fans are going to bend over backwards to make excuses for him it's not like leaf fans are paragons of virtue on these boards. youd welcome Judas Iscariot to the team of he helped you win games. All in saying is the way he went about it was less than honest.

Leafs fans have for the most part unanimously rejected any idea of potentially looking at Slava Voynov, despite him being a top 4 RHD, the teams biggest need.

You can make blanket statements about how dumb Leaf fans are, how obnoxious Leaf fans are, or whatever else, but to use a blanket statement to judge the morality of an entire fanbase, is downright disgusting. You should be ashamed.

The New York Islanders had every right to trade John Tavares last summer, or during the season. They didn't. That wasn't Tavares' choice. Of course he wanted to stay, he was the captain of the team. The Islanders still could have traded him. They chose not to. Another poor choice from a management team who made a lot of poor choices for the previous 9 years. It's beyond me why we are blaming the person who decided to leave the poorly run organization, instead of the management and ownership who actually poorly ran the organization.

 

[Nizdizzle]

listen he had every right to sign in toronto.I don't deny that. And I understand leaf fans are going to bend over backwards to make excuses for him it's not like leaf fans are paragons of virtue on these boards. youd welcome Judas Iscariot to the team of he helped you win games. All in saying is the way he went about it was less than honest.

The guy attacking the fiance of a player who left his team is calling out other fans for virtue and integrity. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Cor]

 

[bleedgreen]

I get being upset he left, but calling him a liar and questioning his character makes LI fans look bad. Be pissed at free agency or the rules associated. Be angry at team things that happened that didn’t take advantage of his time there better. Be angry he liked the idea of Toronto better in the end.

He never lied to anyone. He gave you years of highest level of play at a low price. I’d be upset he was gone too but not like some of this crap.

He’s a liar and you can’t trust him.....cmon.

That can trust him for 7 years.

 

[LeafFever]

Hi spasto. Your cowardice is still noted over at hockeybuzz.

He's Spasto? I never knew.

 

[72hockey guy]

Leafs fans have for the most part unanimously rejected any idea of potentially looking at Slava Voynov, despite him being a top 4 RHD, the teams biggest need.

You can make blanket statements about how dumb Leaf fans are, how obnoxious Leaf fans are, or whatever else, but to use a blanket statement to judge the morality of an entire fanbase, is downright disgusting. You should be ashamed.

The New York Islanders had every right to trade John Tavares last summer, or during the season. They didn't. That wasn't Tavares' choice. Of course he wanted to stay, he was the captain of the team. The Islanders still could have traded him. They chose not to. Another poor choice from a management team who made a lot of poor choices for the previous 9 years. It's beyond me why we are blaming the person who decided to leave the poorly run organization, instead of the management and ownership who actually poorly ran the organization.

but it was his choice ownership came to him and said they were ready to do so. They asked and he lied to their face. The fact that leaf fans like you bend over backwards to justify what he did, proves what I said

and again it's not all leaf fans it's just the less than honorable ones, like yourself. Several have messaged Islander fans apologizing for the behavior of some leaf fans. But that AS the biggest fan base they also have th e most low class ones and that is true

I'm not saying that you did anything wrong by signing him but justifying his lying goes to far and it does reflect badly on the leafs. Which to their credit some leaf fans have acknowledged. Not you of course but others have. They know who they are and that's why islanders fan respect them

The disrespect shown to the winter soldier for being honest for one is criminal. Look we get it leaf fans have every reason to be happy. We are happy for you. We truly are. There's no I'll will at all. But justifying the lies honestly goes to far.