Confirmed with Link: [TOR/FLA] Denis Malgin for Mason Marchment

[ShaneFalco]

I love that Dubas and Leaf management and ownership isn’t gun shy about making moves to try to win ….

And have fallen short big time. Nice to make the moves to try and improve but he's responsible for how they pan out
How many picks do we have left?

 

[keonsbitterness]

And have fallen short big time. Nice to make the moves to try and improve but he's responsible for how they pan out
How many picks do we have left?

1, 2 and 7 this year. All next year except maybe 7.

 

[Havoc]

Been repeated many times: They developed Marchment right up to 2020. There's a photo online of the skating coach standing next to him with the caption "One of her success stories". Then they send all their hard work to Florida. That's the issue people have.

We didn't know, but the organization surely knew he was close, but jumped on Malgins corsi% instead.

This not much you can debate here from that angle, so people seem to be ignoring it and claiming people are just whining about something they didn't know about.

It's a cop out to focus on PPG as well. He doesn't need to be ppg for people to want him and nobody needed to know he would become a ppg player. He's perfect for our third line and that's all, so they deserve to be questioned "why?"

At the same time other teams need to win these trades sometimes or they'll never happen (As in the team getting Malgin will win the trade if you repeated it many times with similar tiered players, so there needs to be an incentive for Panthers to do it too). They knew Marchment had potential and sold his development to panthers . That is a win for the Leafs the day the trade was made because Marchment had negative value beforehand.

The real issue here is there's too many "made sense at the time" trades and moves and not enough actual wins. They become a loss after time plays out. Marchment himself just triggers it again.

 

[ToneDog]

And have fallen short big time. Nice to make the moves to try and improve but he's responsible for how they pan out
How many picks do we have left?

Would have been nice if he was gunshy last TDL. Lost/overpaid for Foligno, and No Save Dave. Nash. Noesen, Hutton were a waste of time and assets. I was not a Barabanov fan but he lost that deal as well.

 

[Cams]

And have fallen short big time. Nice to make the moves to try and improve but he's responsible for how they pan out
How many picks do we have left?

Can't win every trade...... sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you win the trade "today" but ends up the other way in 3 or 4 years. This happens to every organization.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

At the same time other teams need to win these trades sometimes or they'll never happen (As in the team getting Malgin will win the trade if you repeated it many times with similar tiered players). They knew Marchment had potential and sold his development to panthers . That is a win for the Leafs the day the trade was made because Marchment had negative value beforehand.

The real issue here is there's too many "made sense at the time" trades and moves and not enough actual wins. They become a loss after time plays out. Marchment himself just triggers it again.

Fair enough. First reply after 35 pages that is non biased and supports each side evenly.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Would have been nice if he was gunshy last TDL. Lost/overpaid for Foligno, and No Save Dave. Nash. Noesen, Hutton were a waste of time and assets. I was not a Barabanov fan but he last that deal as well.

I expect Dubie to trade 2023 picks to give team a shot in 2022 playoffs .. bottom line we need to FIX our defense .. everyone knows it .. Dubie likely knows this is his last chance .. so I fully expect to give up 2023 picks to bolster our defense .. if you or I were in same situation we would .. so why wouldn't Dubie?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Verhaeghe was dumped by Lou.. and he moving through two organizations (the Isles and Lightning) before getting an opportunity in Florida.

A bit differing circumstances

OK, couldn't remember the timeline & Lou, but thanks. Leaf GMs and former Leaf players though I suppose.

I knew Verhaeghe played on other teams after leaving and before joining the Panthers, but I just found it interesting that several ex players ended up with the Panthers. That's all.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Won 7-1 tonight and people are whining that we traded an AHLer two years ago.

Imagine being able to think and discuss more than one thing at a time. Mind blowing.

Was thinking about posting and making the same point except using the words "walk and chew gum at the same time".

 

[ACC1224]

Was thinking about posting and making the same point except using the words "walk and chew gum at the same time".

I'm a multi tasker. I can discuss many topics at once all while working remotely at a Client site.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Can't win every trade...... sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you win the trade "today" but ends up the other way in 3 or 4 years. This happens to every organization.

Not ever organization gets bounced in the first round 5 years in a row while trying to "go for it". Last year's "go for it" trades turned out to be just brutal and very costly.

 

[bossram]

Been repeated many times: They developed Marchment right up to 2020. There's a photo online of the skating coach standing next to him with the caption "One of her success stories". Then they send all their hard work to Florida. That's the issue people have.

We didn't know, but the organization surely knew he was close, but jumped on Malgins corsi% instead.

This not much you can debate here from that angle, so people seem to be ignoring it and claiming people are just whining about something they didn't know about.

It's a cop out to focus on PPG as well. He doesn't need to be ppg for people to want him and nobody needed to know he would become a ppg player. He's perfect for our third line and that's all, so they deserve to be questioned "why?"

Yeah, it's pretty clear the Leafs organization thought there was something in Marchment, because they invested a lot in developing him. But not one single person really thought he would be an "impact" player. Marchment is pretty clearly not going to continue scoring at this pace either.

IIRC, the motivation for the trade wasn't "Malgin's Corsi". It was, as Dubas has done before with other NHLers, to give Marchment a chance to play in the NHL knowing that it probably wasn't going to come in Toronto.

This is a nothing burger. Dubas has made much worse mistakes (like Foligno at the TDL). 99/100 times the conclusion of this transaction is just a minor leaguer swap that no one remembers.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I'm a multi tasker. I can discuss many topics at once all while working remotely at a Client site.

Yep, but I do think for some folks everything has be binary i.e., you have to either "hate" or "love", its either black or white, there is no grey, there can't be any nuance. Its all or none. I think that's what you picked up on in your reply to that poster.

 

[saltming]

Not ever organization gets bounced in the first round 5 years in a row while trying to "go for it". Last year's "go for it" trades turned out to be just brutal and very costly.

This happens to half the teams that make the playoffs every year and many more teams regularly miss the playoffs.
Yes it sucks that has happened to us. IIRC it happened to TB a few times in a row too.
Would you prefer if we made the playoffs and the GM make no attempt to improve the team

 

[Menzinger]

Didn’t Florida do a better job at seeing this potential?

More like they had more glaring holes in the top 6/9 that allowed him to gain more icetime with less competition.

 

[ACC1224]

More like they had more glaring holes in the top 6/9 that allowed him to gain more icetime with less competition.

Yeah no doubt they had an idea of how they would use him.
Did they approach the Leafs or did Dubas reach out first?

 

[ACC1224]

Yep, but I do think for some folks everything has be binary i.e., you have to either "hate" or "love", its either black or white, there is no grey, there can't be any nuance. Its all or none. I think that's what you picked up on in your reply to that poster.

Yeah pretty much.

 

[nuck]

More like they had more glaring holes in the top 6/9 that allowed him to gain more icetime with less competition.

Maybe. I would not have traded anyone for what Malgin brings but Marchment was not trending anywhere when they made the deal. It was nada for nothing and then it wasnt. Not every player fits with every coach or every lineup. I dont think Ritchie's career before Toronto was a mirage but he found the wrong lineup and the wrong coach. Marchment found the right ones for him and good on him but I am not convinced he was at all likely to be this version with Leafs.

 

[Syed Ammad rizvi]

We are the team that didnt have faith in his capabilities clearly thats why he was off-loaded---you think he will scratch our backs and re-join the club? If I was this guy my mentality will be go Go f*** yourself.

I think you're looking at it from a glass half empty perspective. If you look at the other way, dubas shipped him out because he wanted to give Marchment a chance to play in the NHL by trading him. Also, he is a local kid so that might factor in too.

 

[hotpaws]

I think you're looking at it from a glass half empty perspective. If you look at the other way, dubas shipped him out because he wanted to give Marchment a chance to play in the NHL by trading him. Also, he is a local kid so that might factor in too.

and i'm also guessing our ability to offer him a contract at a whopping 1m per will sway him to come back . lol

anyway i'm not interested in paying him for what could be a one off season even if we had the cap space

 

[Havoc]

Some of these posts lack the required background reading to participate here. I see why some people are annoyed with the replies they're receiving because it's not about if he fits here, it's not about who saw him breaking out, it's not about if he'd make the team over x and y player.

Here's one: Mason Marchment profits from Maple Leafs development staff ahead of debut - Sportsnet.ca

Here's an example of a quote: In Mason Marchment's case, it took just about every available development resource the Toronto Maple Leafs have at their disposal.

An article just for Marchment, ready to finally be given a chance after Leafs spend 4 years investing in him......and the chance never comes. He gets 4 games and shipped off for Malgin.


It's really straight forward how that's an L for us from that perspective. If you don't think it's an L, then it's still straight forward why people think it was dumb to trade someone you developed and when it's time to finally see what came of that development....you don't have the patience to see it. 4 games is all he got.

Florida got all our work for free!!

I see people in the Liljegren thread everyday preaching patience yet they come here and play ignorant about patience lol. Typical.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Some of these posts lack the required background reading to participate here. I see why some people are annoyed with the replies they're receiving because it's not about if he fits here, it's not about who saw him breaking out, it's not about if he'd make the team over x and y player.

Here's one: Mason Marchment profits from Maple Leafs development staff ahead of debut - Sportsnet.ca

Here's an example of a quote: In Mason Marchment's case, it took just about every available development resource the Toronto Maple Leafs have at their disposal.

An article just for Marchment, ready to finally be given a chance after Leafs spend 4 years investing in him......and the chance never comes. He gets 4 games and shipped off for Malgin.


It's really straight forward how that's an L for us. If you don't think it's an L, then it's still straight forward why people think it was dumb to trade someone you developed and when it's time to finally see what came of that development....you don't have the patience to see it. 4 games is all he got.

Florida got all our work for free!!

I see people in the Liljegren thread everyday preaching patience yet they come here and play ignorant about patience lol. Typical.

They could have also put 4 years of development into him and just didn’t see the progress they were hoping for. There were some legit concerns about his skating and ability to keep up at the pro level and it’s not like his AHL production was jumping off the page.

 

[Havoc]

They could have also put 4 years of development into him and just didn’t see the progress they were hoping for. There were some legit concerns about his skating and ability to keep up at the pro level and it’s not like his AHL production was jumping off the page.

The only explanation I said a little above in this thread is the 4 years of development gave Marchment enough value to use him in a trade. We have to also keep in mind Florida invested in Malgin and won't trade him for free.

From a talent / patience perspective I agree with the other side in this thread. Your own staff like Underhill considers Marchment fixed and you only give him 4 games?

Also, if they did have concerns about him, so decided 4 games is enough, that's even worse no? That's a fail in player evaluation. They spent 4 years with him. They know him inside and out more than anyone else in the universe. They had to have really liked Malgin to pull the cord on Marchment so quick. But again, that makes it a L because they guessed wrong.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

They could have also put 4 years of development into him and just didn’t see the progress they were hoping for. There were some legit concerns about his skating and ability to keep up at the pro level and it’s not like his AHL production was jumping off the page.

This can't be true because the 4 year end result was a NHL debut. That doesn't happen in the NHL if the progress reports are negative year after year. Even Brooks got a bigger chance and we waived him, so if you're right how does Dubas get a 22 year old player with 150 NHL games and very pretty advanced stats for Marchment if his progress report sucks? He fleeced them?

Florida knew what they were doing, we didn't.

 

[Havoc]

This can't be true because the 4 year end result was a NHL debut. That doesn't happen in the NHL if the progress reports are negative year after year. Even Brooks got a bigger chance and we waived him, so if you're right how does Dubas get a 22 year old player with 150 NHL games and very pretty advanced stats for Marchment if his progress report sucks? He fleeced them?

Florida knew what they were doing, we didn't.

Im just going to jump back to the other side real quick now though and give a nice compromise so everyone can be friends.

Leafs still own Malgins rights so this story might not be over. He's doing really well and will hit that 25 year old Bunting breakout year next year.

Malgin 2023 breakout incoming, call him Malkin instead. And not the John Mitchell kind.