Proposal: Tor - Clb

[Brew]

Werenski = Nylander more or less, but then you have to factor in if you count Nylander as a C or W

Jenner > JVR big time....

Jenner scores more goals and is a future captain...

As a fan of both Jenner and JVR, Jenner > JVR in the eyes of Columbus fans. I personally think it's a wash, both bring considerable aspects to their game. At this point, the big difference would be age and salary. One will be a UFA, and the other an RFA when contracts expire. As much as I love watching Jenner's aggressive style, I love JVR's net presence and overall skill.

 

[Space Coyote]

Toronto needs to add a good piece like Reilly or marner or 1st

Matthews + Rielly sounds fair.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Matthews + Rielly sounds fair.

potential #1 D > potential #1 C
30 goal scorer C > low end completely done developing #2 defender

leafs pull the trigger on this one

 

[Randy Randerson]

Van Riemsdyk doesn't back check.

Or play defense.

Or play physical.

Or cover his man.

Or skate hard when his team doesn't have the puck.

#OneWayPlayer

Seems like JVR might not be alone in lacking defensive prowess....was surprised to see how poor Jenner's suppression/possession stats are

View attachment 91239
credit:http://ownthepuck.blogspot.ca/

 

[Halla]

Werenski = Nylander more or less, but then you have to factor in if you count Nylander as a C or W

Jenner > JVR big time....

Jenner scores more goals and is a future captain...

jenner has gotten 17+ once....0.297 gpg
JVR 0.304gpg.

lets not get silly over one 30g year on a miserable team where the other guy missed half the year (and woulda been around 30 if he didnt get hurt)

to say jenner>jvr big time is hilarious. jenner could easily drop back to 15g/35 pts next year ala foligno

 

[Halla]

Did you seriously just compare Boone Jenner and his third season in the NHL at age 22 to David Clarkson and his sixth season in the NHL at age 27?

did you seriously just say JVR in a full season would have been still short of the 30 goals jenner got?

14 in 40 works out to 29 in a full year..and now jvr has some talent to play with...

 

[Sniper99]

Jenner is definitely more valuable. He's tougher, grittier, by all reports he has good leadership qualities and he's got a two-way game, something that JVR certainly does not.

Your "reports" come from where exactly?

 

[Halla]

Your "reports" come from where exactly?

out of left field apparently. he called jenner a strong two way player whereas advanced stats show him as a terrible possesion player.
but anything to hate on the leafs i guess....

 

[Viqsi]

Toronto needs to add a good piece like Reilly or marner or 1st

On top of what's already in the package, that's completely absurd overkill for Toronto.

* * *​

did you seriously just say JVR in a full season would have been still short of the 30 goals jenner got?

14 in 40 works out to 29 in a full year..and now jvr has some talent to play with...

28.7, to be precise, but, meh (you can't score a partial goal and rounding up in that case is fair). It's still less than 30. It's not a dramatic difference and I tried not to represent it as such. JvR still has the more consistent track record.

 

[iBELEAF]

Lol at Jenner being better than jvr

 

[mikeyp24]

Lol at Jenner being better than jvr

Big difference between who is better and who is more valuable. The talent at this point is basically a wash but the value sways towards Jenner based on age, potential, and current production (even though similar)

 

[Brew]

Big difference between who is better and who is more valuable. The talent at this point is basically a wash but the value sways towards Jenner based on age, potential, and current production (even though similar)

I cant believe I actually saw some common sense in this thread. Only took 4 pages.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Big difference between who is better and who is more valuable. The talent at this point is basically a wash but the value sways towards Jenner based on age, potential, and current production (even though similar)

Jenner does not match JVR in current production only in last year's production. 1 out of 3 seasons he has played he has scored more than 30 points or more than 16 goals.
I know he had injury problems but having a bad back that early into ones carrer is worth noting.

 

[CBJx614]

Jenner does not match JVR in current production only in last year's production. 1 out of 3 seasons he has played he has scored more than 30 points or more than 16 goals.
I know he had injury problems but having a bad back that early into ones carrer is worth noting.

Jenner tied Nashs rookie goal scoring record. Had a nasty back injury last season and rebounded with a 30G season. He's done nothing but trend up.

If I remember right he had a fracture in his back, but honestly I don't remember.

 

[TeamBester]

potential #1 d > potential #1 c
30 goal scorer c > low end completely done developing #2 defender

leafs pull the trigger on this one

#1 c >>>> #1 d

 

[CBJx614]

#1 c >>>> #1 d

Eh, Jarno didn't seem to think so. You build from the net out.

 

[Crede777]

JVR and Jenner are comparable skill wise, but Jenner is much younger and therefore is much more valuable.

 

[TeamBester]

Eh, Jarno didn't seem to think so. You build from the net out.

The fact that a franchise C is almost always taken 1st in the draft shows how valuable they are.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Eh, Jarno didn't seem to think so. You build from the net out.

Assuming you meant Jarmo here? Not sure you want to be using his track record as the model to follow just yet...and even he opted for a guy in the most recent draft because he could play center over a group of wingers and D that were widely considered to be on the same level (and maybe one that was widely considered to be a tier above)

 

[Randy Randerson]

The fact that a franchise C is almost always taken 1st in the draft shows how valuable they are.

Strongly agree. See Tavares over Hedman, Stamkos over Doughty, MacKinnon over Jones in recent years.

Ekblad over the Sams/Draisatl bucks the trend, but I'm of the opinion that he was just seen as the BPA given the exceptional player status and all

 

[CBJx614]

The fact that a franchise C is almost always taken 1st in the draft shows how valuable they are.

Defenceman are also harder to project and take longer to develop which also gets taken into consideration. From 2013 the only player id surely take over Jones is Barkov. Mackinnon and Jones are pretty equal Imo. Hedman is a guy who would definitely be in consideration for 1st in a redraft.

It really depends on the year. Guys like Hanifin, Werenski, Provorov are gonna take minimum 2-3 seasons to make an impact where as centers (forwards in general) can come in and make a pretty big difference in the 1st season or two.

It was one of the reasons Ryan Murray was so highly touted. He came in and (somewhat) stabilized the Jackets defense in his rookie year until injuries devastated his first 2 seasons.

 

[CBJx614]

Strongly agree. See Tavares over Hedman, Stamkos over Doughty, MacKinnon over Jones in recent years.

Ekblad over the Sams/Draisatl bucks the trend, but I'm of the opinion that he was just seen as the BPA given the exceptional player status and all

Maybe it's just me, but id build around Hedman before I'd build around Tavares. Tavares is a beast don't get me wrong but Hedman is an absolute monster. And he's still getting better.

 

[CBJx614]

Assuming you meant Jarmo here? Not sure you want to be using his track record as the model to follow just yet...and even he opted for a guy in the most recent draft because he could play center over a group of wingers and D that were widely considered to be on the same level (and maybe one that was widely considered to be a tier above)

No... He didn't. He opted for who he thought was BPA. It's pretty simple.

I'm not trying to derail the thread but drafting players isn't only about the on ice product(yes it's probably 80%+) but you have to take character and how they act and preform off ice and in the community into consideration. Which is a area PLD blows just about everyone away in.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Defenceman are also harder to project and take longer to develop which also gets taken into consideration. From 2013 the only player id surely take over Jones is Barkov. Mackinnon and Jones are pretty equal Imo. Hedman is a guy who would definitely be in consideration for 1st in a redraft.

It really depends on the year. Guys like Hanifin, Werenski, Provorov are gonna take minimum 2-3 seasons to make an impact where as centers (forwards in general) can come in and make a pretty big difference in the 1st season or two.

It was one of the reasons Ryan Murray was so highly touted. He came in and (somewhat) stabilized the Jackets defense in his rookie year until injuries devastated his first 2 seasons.

Maybe it's just me, but id build around Hedman before I'd build around Tavares. Tavares is a beast don't get me wrong but Hedman is an absolute monster. And he's still getting better.

Hindsight is 20/20 in terms of who anyone would take

I think the point is: when NHL GM's see prospects who are all considered to be on the same tier, they tend to side with the Centre first, should speak to how they value positions.

If you want to argue that a #1D and a #1C are similar values (and at the top of the food totem pole) I would buy that, but not that #1D >> #1C as the evidence is to the contrary

Given that defensemen also take longer to develop, wouldn't you rather have more years of that guy making an impact on your NHL team?

 

[Randy Randerson]

No... He didn't. He opted for who he thought was BPA. It's pretty simple.

He had the first off-the-board pick in a "Big 3" draft in doing so...was definitely in the minority thinking that Dubois was the BPA if so.

Methinks that he placed a little value (rightly so) on the position. Or maybe he's just actually allergic to Finns?