Mandar
The Real Maven
years? maybe during the rebuild, but prior to that there has been McD, Girardi (yes, he was good at that point), Klein, etc.
Finding another Klein would be pretty cool....are they out there to be had?
Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part IV
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Finding another Klein would be pretty cool....are they out there to be had?
- Oct 23, 2014
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Trouba has been underwhelming so far and I've been critical of him at times but his usage is simply a lot tougher than DeAngelo's...
Tony gets to spend more time with NYR's top forwards but much less time against opponent's top forwards. on top of that, his defensive zone start % is 20% lower and you also account for volume. Not only are Trouba's minutes tangibly tougher, he plays 2:00-2:30 more per game on average, so it compounds. And of course Trouba also has the burden of being the top PK dman which can wear you down and take away energy during the game, esp if a team is getting multiple PPO.
I definitely don't think Trouba has lived up to his contract but I can't see many, if any, defenseman tilting the ice if you were to put them in Trouba's shoes on this team.
Thanks. I suspected most of this to be the case but it's nice to know the numbers support my eyes.
Trouba has been underwhelming so far and I've been critical of him at times but his usage is simply a lot tougher than DeAngelo's...
Tony gets to spend more time with NYR's top forwards but much less time against opponent's top forwards. on top of that, his defensive zone start % is 20% lower and you also account for volume. Not only are Trouba's minutes tangibly tougher, he plays 2:00-2:30 more per game on average, so it compounds. And of course Trouba also has the burden of being the top PK dman which can wear you down and take away energy during the game, esp if a team is getting multiple PPO.
I definitely don't think Trouba has lived up to his contract but I can't see many, if any, defenseman tilting the ice if you were to put them in Trouba's shoes on this team.
I have to say though, I f***ing hate those charts. Most of the advanced stats charts, I swear, are f***ing insane. Maybe they're good for the numerically-inclined people out there, but for people like me who struggle with complex numbers and statistical models they are a huge turn-off. I feel like if the advanced stats community could come together to try to make their stuff more accessible, it would really help bridge the gap to a lot of the "skeptics" out there.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
I’d argue that’s not a flaw in advanced stats but actually a primary feature. They’re for pseudo-intellectuals, they are supposed to be confusing and show a whole lot of nothing; makes them feel smart & holier than the cavemen who trust the eye test.
- Oct 23, 2014
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Yeah I kinda laughed when i first saw those charts, they can look weird and be hard to read at first. Ironically, those charts are from HockeyViz (Hockey Visualized), a guy who tries to make them more simple and accessible by doing them into graphics.
Interesting. I actually looked at the charts for quite a while and though I think I understand what they're conveying, it seems like an odd presentation. Also, comparing them did nothing for me.
Even though I suck with math and numbers, I find it much easier if things can be synthesized into single numbers or sets of numbers. Like I can go to NaturalStatTtrick and understand pretty much every stat listed there, once I read what it is and everything. Trying to put it in chart form would probably confuse me. Although I guess I just argued that putting them in easy-to-read charts is what I advocated for previously.
He needs to be careful. I like that he's always willing to stick up for a teammate, but he has no business engaging Ross f***ing Johnston. If he gets hurt in a situation like that it's going to suck and be dumb.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
Balls of steel
Very few players of his skill level play with as much of an edge as he does
Very few players of his skill level play with as much of an edge as he does
It's stuff like that that is going to endear him to his teammates. It is also stuff like that why I say that one of the main focuses of the defense heading into 2021 is to find him a sizable, defensive conscious partner. I know, easier said than done.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
On yesterday's Spittin Chiclets Episode (which features Sean Avery btw so a great listen ) the guys were raving about DeAngelo. Said all the teammates love him too, that they'd asked Kevin Hayes what he was like and he said I love that guy
) the guys were raving about DeAngelo. Said all the teammates love him too, that they'd asked Kevin Hayes what he was like and he said I love that guy
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
Even when he was here in Syracuse he was very popular in the room. I met him once at an open skate with the team after a game. He was exactly like he appears on tv. Kinda matter of fact and chill. He’s exactly my height on skates so 5’11
he has a dynamic personality even quinn eluded to that.
I’m thinking he’s gonna be part of this team for quite some time.
he has a dynamic personality even quinn eluded to that.
I’m thinking he’s gonna be part of this team for quite some time.
Whoot Whoot
Biased Rangers Fan
I wonder if partnering home with a really steady stay at home D (think old school Girardi, or Stralman) is going to work or it would slow him down. He did seem to do well with Fox who has much higher than average offensive potential.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
Him and Fox flat out dominated together.
Like, best pairing we've had in a decade or more.
You and me both brother. Like you, I suspected this was true and appreciate that the stats support it, but I can barely make heads or tails of the advanced stats and a more palatable format for the layman would go miles. I’d be a lot more willing to go with more than just 30 years of trusting my own “eye test” if I could access this data without having to learn a whole new language.
Captain Monglobster
Registered User
- Nov 9, 2005
- 2,041
- 1,566
Tony D needs to be a long term priority. Its not either/or with him and Fox, both of those guys should be locked up for the long term as prt of the core. Shed salary somewhere else if necessary, he is a character guy popular in the room, steps up on the ice, not easy to find.
nyrage
Registered User
I hate those charts, too. I worked 20 years at Shell doing finance/accounting. I liked using numbers. The funny thing is all the Engineers I supported hated seeing numbers and wanted everything in charts. It's amazing how quickly they could get the message from any charts, even the most difficult of ones. For me, I have to look at them like I'm looking at an abstract painting until it hits me what it's saying. I'm sure it's pretty second nature to most advanced stats fans by now.
I'm definitely an old school eye test kind of guy. I played for 40 years, so I trust my eyes, but I think the advanced stats are a nice complimentary piece. Us old school people need to evolve with the times and technology. A lot of the stats they track now weren't available in older days. It's nice to have....but I still hate those charts.
Re: Tony. He has his share of defensive lapses and mistakes, but he's still young. He will get better defensively. I hope we keep him around. I rather trade Skjei if we have cap issues.
thing is if he can put up 60-70 points you deal with some defensive lapses because the benefits outweigh the negatives
Rempe73
RIP King of Pop
- Jul 6, 2017
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I’m surprised the engineers preferred the graphs. Granted, I work mostly with simulations and I’m more of a mathematician than engineer by training (industrial engineering / operations research isn’t really engineering), but it’s always been easier for me to understand numbers and functions than to interpret graphs. Unfortunately, though, the blokes in marketing and sales dread numbers if they aren’t in chart form.
- Nov 2, 2011
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If the charts came with a 3-5 sentence explanation at the bottom of how to properly read it and a 1 sentence conclusion of what it means (even if the sentences were auto-generated based on the data) it would be so much more helpful and readable (literally) to me
Not against bigger and better teams. There, they get dominated. DeAgelo and Fox as a pair would be a defensive disaster long term. Fox is just fine with Lindgren. And Gorton & JD should do all he can to find a Lindgren clone to pair with DeAngelo.
Forget 70. If he is a 55-60 point player at this age, you live with the defensive warts. And make finding him a suitable partner a priority. Finding that is easier than replacing what DeAngelo is already. Or simply just hoping that your pipeline produces someone like that. Chances of that are pretty small when you stop to consider the amount of names that have done what he is currently trending to do.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
Maybe, but we never got a chance to see it if that's the case. They always had the puck in the games they were together, and their transition game was insane.
SA16
Sixstring
Two smallish puck movers, including one who is playing on his off side is not a good recipe, IMO. They get killed along the boards and do not emerge from the corners with the puck. Plus the front of the net becomes an issue. Sure once they have the puck, they are great. But retrieving it against a team like the Blues or Colorado would be an issue.
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