Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part IV

[SnowblindNYR]

Baseball is the best game for analytics. Basketball is definitely better than Hockey.

There are just way too many variables in hockey to put too much weight in them. That's my problem with analytic pundits at the moment. It can be used as a tool to evaluate or to confirm. It should not dominate the evaluation.

You see it often now, there's no 'scouting' or 'description' of what a said player does/did well or poorly. Just post a chart.

Considering how many industries are way more complicated than the NHL use analytics I think it's silly to say this. Maybe you're right and they're not there yet. And the people posting shit on twitter aren't exactly the math PhDs you see at Google and hedge funds, but the idea that hockey is gee golly just too complicated for analytics is ridiculous.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Unfortunately most current NHL players likely agree with ADA's views on advanced stats. The problem for advanced stats in hockey is how actionable are they for the players themselves? Or is their primary utility as evaluation tools for GM's and coaches?

In baseball you can relay statistical information to the players and see them potentially make adjustments that might help their game. I don't know if that's possible in hockey.

So, in hockey, if you're a current player, what do you do with the information? Strome is a great example. If you were to sit down with Strome and run through his underlying numbers with him what is the takeaway from that conversation from the perspective of the player? That his numbers will likely fall off a cliff and there's not much he can do about it? It's not surprising players hate them.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Whether it's right or wrong, I think it's good for him to go to bat for his teammate. Weird to @ him though, IMO. Notifying him that people are saying negative things about him is an odd look.

Not disagreeing with the standing up for his teammates thing. That's the type of guy ADA is.

 

[UnSandvich]

Not disagreeing with the standing up for his teammates thing. That's the type of guy ADA is.

This. To be clear, I think Tony's wrong about analytics, but that's absolutely the right stance to take in terms of standing up for your teammates.

 

[duhmetreE]

Every game has infinite variables...the games are played on the court or on the field. Willa guy with a history spin rate on his curve ball be able to get the guy out who has some crazy launch angle and exit velocity? It all comes down to odds right...

Variables in accurately measuring a players worth.

MLB is a whole lot easier to isolate. There are variables but no where near the NHL level.

NBA is not as easy to isolate as MLB but still better than the NHL.

NHL is a lot more complex and dynamic. Like I've said, it's a tool that should be used for discussion/confirmation but it's not the end all, be all. Or maybe it's just the way I perceive some to use it.

Neal Pionk was the worst hockey player in the league. It was definitive... No way around it. He wasn't an NHL player and was gleefully, this boards whipping boy... You know, because of that horrible CF%. He's magically a decent player now? Can analytics explain it? What changed?

To add to it, hockey analytics typically focus on 1 portion of the game, albeit the 'largest chunk' of the game. But not every game is won at 5v5. What about everything else? How often do special teams play directly affect 5v5?

In 2018, NYR had similar xG as WAS.. Similar outcome? Obviously this is all rhetorical..

 

[duhmetreE]

Considering how many industries way more complicated than the NHL use analytics I think it's silly to say this. Maybe you're right and they're not there yet. And the people posting **** on twitter aren't exactly the math PhDs you see at Google and hedge funds, but the idea that hockey is gee golly just too complicated for analytics is ridiculous.

It's no 'gee golly too complicated' it's just not all encompassing or as definitive as people make it seem.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's no 'gee golly too complicated' it's just not all encompassing or as definitive as people make it seem.

That's true, but then you get posts from TDA and then EdJovanvski who are basically all "watch the game, nerd". There's a difference between imperfect and useless.

 

[duhmetreE]

Unfortunately most current NHL players likely agree with ADA's views on advanced stats. The problem for advanced stats in hockey is how actionable are they for the players themselves? Or is their primary utility as evaluation tools for GM's and coaches?

In baseball you can relay statistical information to the players and see them potentially make adjustments that might help their game. I don't know if that's possible in hockey.

So, in hockey, if you're a current player, what do you do with the information? Strome is a great example. If you were to sit down with Strome and run through his underlying numbers with him what is the takeaway from that conversation from the perspective of the player? That his numbers will likely fall off a cliff and there's not much he can do about it? It's not surprising players hate them.

Tell him to aim for the crest so his stats can 'normalize'

 

[East Coast Bias]

Thankfully Tony is good at hockey. Cause if he wasn't he'd be Tony from South Jersey, calling the FAN daily.




Mike - deez guys are out of touch these days. They want all this money. I'll play for free Mike. My buddy Frankie was the best evah around Cherry Hill - never got a deal! Played for free! Got two bum knees now, Mike, neva got a penny. He can't walk but he stands for the pledge in my living room, Mike. These guys nowadays are just disgraceful.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Tony D is getting PAID.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Was worth Stepan and Raanta by himself.

 

[Edge]

Tony D is getting PAID.

And that’s something to keep in mind when we talk about what we’re willing to pay Strome or Kreider.

The sentiment might very well be that we’d really like to hold onto them. The financial side of things paints a picture where we can’t resign both and give ADA a raise.

 

[Rempe73]

Tony D is getting PAID.

@effen

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

He needed that goal with the way he’s been playing the last few games.

Hopefully he can get rolling again.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Rangers got some tough decisions to make with Lundkvist coming over in a year or two. I'd like to think Trouba is the odd-man out but his contract will make it really hard to get rid of him. I just hope it doesn't mean getting rid of DeAngelo

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Rangers got some tough decisions to make with Lundkvist coming over in a year or two. I'd like to think Trouba is the odd-man out but his contract will make it really hard to get rid of him. I just hope it doesn't mean getting rid of DeAngelo

Move Fox to the left. Problem solved. Top pair of Trouba and Fox.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Tony won that game last night with a well placed shot low right with the goalie moving left.

He started the OT 3v3 as he should. quinn making the right call here. Paid off

While we all -or some more than others, point out tonys defensive issues, his ability to win games and create offense is money

kids 4th in scoring on the team. 7 goals. 925k salary. VALUE !!

as much as many here want to biotch and moan about his D, even quinn said hes played very well lately. his ice time may well be more about the flow of the game than a statement on his defense.

no question, late down a goal or 2, hes gonna play alot. tie game, defensive zone face-off, hes gorilla glued to the bench. i do see that foxy has taken his spot on the PP1 for the time being.

i see no issue there at all.

 

[ThirdEye]

Him and Fox are equally effective on the PP and in OT, so Quinn can take his pick. ADA has raked up more points overall but in the last 12 games or so they're probably close to even

 

[Rongomania]

Him and Fox are equally effective on the PP and in OT, so Quinn can take his pick. ADA has raked up more points overall but in the last 12 games or so they're probably close to even

We all thirsted for just 1 offensively gifted RHD and now we have two. Glorious.

Glad this team never gave up on Tony and he will be much more valuable to this teams future success than Strome and Kreids.

Did anyone else get reminded of the film 'Gladiator' - the 'Are you not entertained?' scene with Tony's OT celly?

 

[offdacrossbar]

when you consider both of those guys and how young they are and how talented each is in their own right, it sure looks like we are set for the foreseeable future on the right side and with our PP qb.

having one of them is great but 2 gives us more flexibility and creates a matchup nightmare for opposing PK units. they are the prototypical "new age" mobile, smart offensive defenders.

fox is so silky in everything he does. he like never makes a bad decision with the puck. its freakish for such a young guy to be that advanced in processing the game on both ends.

and tony may well be the 2nd best passer on the team after bread. that kid just has the knack for creating things with a pass or swooping down from the top to act like a 5th forward.

those 2 guys make watching this team more fun. by alot.

 

[Leonardo87]

He needed that goal with the way he’s been playing the last few games.

Hopefully he can get rolling again.

Tony D can make up some of his D mishaps with his offense. He’s emerged as the Rangers best offensive D, and still have Fox and Trouba as well.

 

[Edge]

Rangers got some tough decisions to make with Lundkvist coming over in a year or two. I'd like to think Trouba is the odd-man out but his contract will make it really hard to get rid of him. I just hope it doesn't mean getting rid of DeAngelo

Two years isn't a long time, but in a lot of ways it is.

At some point, the Rangers are going to have to fill other holes on their roster --- some of which we haven't yet identified.

I think there's always a concern you're going to give away a young stud and have him haunt you for years. However, it is a little easier to move a guy like that when you have a couple of other young studs, and can acquire a player of similar ability to play another position.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I don't know if people just don't consider this skill defense, but he is hands down the best at breakout passes and getting out of our zone. I don't think defense should mean getting hemmed in your own zone, blocking shots and throwing hits. The best defensive players make sure they rarely have to play defense

 

[Irishguy42]

The best defensive players make sure they rarely have to play defense

Preach.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Tony D is getting PAID.

By who is the question