Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part IV

[Edge]

I don't know if people just don't consider this skill defense, but he is hands down the best at breakout passes and getting out of our zone. I don't think defense should mean getting hemmed in your own zone, blocking shots and throwing hits. The best defensive players make sure they rarely have to play defense

I think as the Rangers defense finds balance, and the forwards more consistently support defensive plays, ADA's shortcomings will be better camouflaged.

I would say what the Rangers do want to be mindful of, as they get further down the road, is not falling into the trap of being a high-powered offensive team in the regular season that struggles to adapt to playoff hockey when time and space decrease, and pressure increases.

But I think that's a few years down the line. We have to be careful about judging the current team by the standards/hopes we have for the finished product --- and that includes how we view the players.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Tony won that game last night with a well placed shot low right with the goalie moving left.

He started the OT 3v3 as he should. quinn making the right call here. Paid off

While we all -or some more than others, point out tonys defensive issues, his ability to win games and create offense is money

kids 4th in scoring on the team. 7 goals. 925k salary. VALUE !!

as much as many here want to biotch and moan about his D, even quinn said hes played very well lately. his ice time may well be more about the flow of the game than a statement on his defense.

no question, late down a goal or 2, hes gonna play alot. tie game, defensive zone face-off, hes gorilla glued to the bench. i do see that foxy has taken his spot on the PP1 for the time being.

i see no issue there at all.

What usually happens is people get all crazy with themselves talking about "Best in the league" when the guy still isn't good defensively consistently enough to even think about it. This place does not pay ANY mind to the D side of hockey bc there are no easy stats to point at. So what happens is we get Yandle'd and Shattenkirk'd and Boyle'd, etc, etc, etc.

I know when I point out his D it's bc I'm tired of getting caught up in this places offensive stat watch hype when it comes to dmen. We always get TOO hyped about these guys when they have glaring holes in their game is all.

 

[romba]

Considering how many industries are way more complicated than the NHL use analytics I think it's silly to say this. Maybe you're right and they're not there yet. And the people posting **** on twitter aren't exactly the math PhDs you see at Google and hedge funds, but the idea that hockey is gee golly just too complicated for analytics is ridiculous.

It's not how complicated a field is, it is how well the variables are isolated, quantified and tracked. Hockey has tons of variables not tracked, or they're estimated based on other somewhat correlated variables, and this leads to weaker data, especially as we delve deeper into more advanced stats. Everything is quantified in baseball and so advanced statistics is much more useful (for now).

Sure, Strome's shot % is way up, it'd be nice to quantify why that is. Is his decision making after touching the puck quicker? Is he using his teamates better? Did he improve his release? Are they all the same as it was for him previously? Saying 'he'll regress to his average' tends to be true, but it'd be nice to show he's doing everything at the same level he was previously so it must be that luck is on his side now which eventually will shift back.

 

[nyr2k2]

I don't know if people just don't consider this skill defense, but he is hands down the best at breakout passes and getting out of our zone. I don't think defense should mean getting hemmed in your own zone, blocking shots and throwing hits. The best defensive players make sure they rarely have to play defense

That's a fun thing to say and everything, but when people complain about his defense I think they're generally talking about how he gets beat up in the corners, beat up in front of the cage, can still struggle with his gaps, and is still somewhat of a riverboat gambler. It is of course true that crisp exits and getting the puck out safely and consistently are two very important things, and he does excel at them. But no one can control the puck even close to 100% of the time, and those other things I mentioned are also critically important. If you want to brush them aside with fun little sayings, fine, but they still exist.

 

[effen]

@effen

I'm happy he'll get paid, and he'll deserve what he gets. I just don't think it's as much or for as long as the rest of the board thinks (hopes?) he will.

 

[Rempe73]

I'm happy he'll get paid, and he'll deserve what he gets. I just don't think it's as much or for as long as the rest of the board thinks (hopes?) he will.

No I know haha it’s just funny

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I'm happy he'll get paid, and he'll deserve what he gets. I just don't think it's as much or for as long as the rest of the board thinks (hopes?) he will.

Sounds a lot like what some people said this summer before he was signed. Now i think all the posters are wishing he got those contracts people were suggesting.

 

[True Blue]

Sounds a lot like what some people said this summer before he was signed. Now i think all the posters are wishing he got those contracts people were suggesting.

Tony is hardly God's gift to defense. He is not making a top pair defenseman's salary until he can actually defend. Or defend much better than he has been.

As for wishing how much he could have been signed for, what is the point? Once Trouba and Panarin were signed, the rest of the fate of the contracts was sealed.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Tony is hardly God's gift to defense. He is not making a top pair defenseman's salary until he can actually defend. Or defend much better than he has been.

As for wishing how much he could have been signed for, what is the point? Once Trouba and Panarin were signed, the rest of the fate of the contracts was sealed.

I haven't really got a strong opinion one way or the other, but I've seen the bold stated here several times now. We literally moved Namestnikov two games into the season; Gorton could of easily made room to sign ADA long term if that was what he had wanted.

 

[nyr2k2]

I haven't really got a strong opinion one way or the other, but I've seen the bold stated here several times now. We literally moved Namestnikov two games into the season; Gorton could of easily made room to sign ADA long term if that was what he had wanted.

How long term do you think they could have signed him for? Assume the full $3.25M they created, plus Tony's $900k. Do you think they could have done more than maybe 3 years for that sum? 3 years, $12M or whatever? It would buy us an extra year of control, but the end result would probably be the same--either sign him to a real long term deal or trade him. Not saying it would be a pointless move or anything, but I also don't know how much it would have changed.

 

[Harbour Dog]

How long term do you think they could have signed him for? Assume the full $3.25M they created, plus Tony's $900k. Do you think they could have done more than maybe 3 years for that sum? 3 years, $12M or whatever? It would buy us an extra year of control, but the end result would probably be the same--either sign him to a real long term deal or trade him. Not saying it would be a pointless move or anything, but I also don't know how much it would have changed.

3 years was exactly the number I had in mind. Any longer than that, and I think we'd be in the terretory of me having a strong (negative) opinion.

 

[True Blue]

I haven't really got a strong opinion one way or the other, but I've seen the bold stated here several times now. We literally moved Namestnikov two games into the season; Gorton could of easily made room to sign ADA long term if that was what he had wanted.

1) ADA was already signed by then. And it is not like he is UFA at the end of the season. So why the rush?
2) Sure Gorton could have done that. But that would eliminate any breathing room he just bought the team for under the cap

 

[kovazub94]

Move Fox to the left. Problem solved. Top pair of Trouba and Fox.

Can we discuss this possibility, not in hypothetical “it’s better for RH to play RD”, but specifically if it could be a fit on the Rangers compared to other available options?

I’d be interested.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Can we discuss this possibility, not in hypothetical “it’s better for RH to play RD”, but specifically if it could be a fit on the Rangers compared to other available options?

I’d be interested.

its tough to play defense on your off side.

everything is tougher. your backhand becomes your forehand. thats hard.

the player wont be happy being handicapped like that.

prefer that doesnt happen.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I don't know if people just don't consider this skill defense, but he is hands down the best at breakout passes and getting out of our zone. I don't think defense should mean getting hemmed in your own zone, blocking shots and throwing hits. The best defensive players make sure they rarely have to play defense

I would disagree with you and say that Fox is NYR's best breakout guy. Tony's more of a threat to wheel and skate the puck out but Fox just makes some unreal passes out of the zone.

 

[kovazub94]

its tough to play defense on your off side.

everything is tougher. your backhand becomes your forehand. thats hard.

the player wont be happy being handicapped like that.

prefer that doesnt happen.

That’s obvious and I’m not talk about right now but something to consider after this season/ sometime into the future.

I mean these areas in the defensive zone are not his strengths to begin with. Would it be such a big drop off especially with the right partner?

On the other hand the switch would allow to integrate Lundkvist when he’s ready and have a high end offense with adequate defense pair with someone more defensive sound like Trouba, or even Lundkvist himself who seems to have this game.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I would disagree with you and say that Fox is NYR's best breakout guy. Tony's more of a threat to wheel and skate the puck out but Fox just makes some unreal passes out of the zone.

Truthfully i'm pretty much equally impress with both of their outlet passes. Both of them can make unreal passes on a constant basis from the dzone. Too close to call for me which is better.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Fox more sure-handed and rarely, if ever, turns the puck over when he moves it out. He is very patient and methodical in his process and it keeps the puck out of our end and within our team. However, this also often leads to us facing a set defence against which it is much harder to generate high danger scoring chances.

Tony moves the puck faster and is willing to take higher risks when he moves the puck up the ice leading to more odd man rushes and putting the opposition on their heels, generating more high danger chances while also leading to more turnovers.

I like Tony's type of game more, but it is incredibly valuable to have both in your defensive corps.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Truthfully i'm pretty much equally impress with both of their outlet passes. Both of them can make unreal passes on a constant basis from the dzone. Too close to call for me which is better.

It's definitely close.

On Control Breakouts, you know those ones where the other team isn't really forechecking but more trapping the neutral zone and you have time, I think their ability is about equal. But in terms of a puck retrieval after a dump in when the team is forechecking, I trust Fox more to get to those pucks and make those quick and smarter plays more under pressure but that's just me.

 

[offdacrossbar]

i think deangelo is a better skater but not by much. the only thing about fox that isnt elite- given his young age, is his wheels. hes an average skater speed and edge wise where tony is a very good skater with excellent footwork at all times. tony isnt a speedster but he is able to separate and shows good speed with the puck on his stick. fox is a very good skater just lacking some quickness and top end not unlike tony.

as far as passing the puck they are both very strong. tony can make snapping tape to tape passes that are firm and crisp. hes a fast passer. once he makes his mind up, his hands act quickly. hes also a very sublime passer at full speed able to lift and saucer pass like a forward. he must lead the team in home run type pass attempts. hes always looking to spring someone.

foxy isnt far behind him there. hes got soft hands and makes that first pass like a 5 yr vet already. i especially like his ability to skate away from pressure and control the play with his skating and then make a good pass.

i like fox and his hands slightly better than tony. fox's ability to stick handle and stop and start is freakishly good for a rookie. having said that, tony again isnt far behind here either. both can use the backhand to make plays and both seem to anticipate very well which makes passing even more of a weapon. tony morphs into a forward when hes in the O zone seamlessly. hes a natural attacking the net.

both have equally average shots but quick wristers on net trump a trouba bomb, that misses wide most of the time, every time imo.

i believe fox has top end vision and can control the play when he has the puck. hes a "slows the game down" guy- meaning, he has the ability to play the game fast but his mind processes it so quickly it slows things down in his mind. if that makes any sense.

 

[Sayba]

What do we do with DeAngelo? The coach obviously prefers Trouba and Fox while DeAngelo is tied for 13th in scoring by a defenseman without big minutes. Do we try him on the left side with Trouba? He needs to play more, his offensive talent is too high to play the minutes he is getting.

 

[will1066]

The revisionist "should've signed him" comments are chuckle worthy. This place was all about "make him earn it" and "eff this guy for holding out"

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The revisionist "should've signed him" comments are chuckle worthy. This place was all about "make him earn it" and "eff this guy for holding out"

Some of us wanted him extended long term.

What do we do with DeAngelo? The coach obviously prefers Trouba and Fox while DeAngelo is tied for 13th in scoring by a defenseman without big minutes. Do we try him on the left side with Trouba? He needs to play more, his offensive talent is too high to play the minutes he is getting.

DeAngelo averages more ice time than Fox.

I like where both of them are at in terms of minutes right now.

 

[Inferno]

Why don't we just move lundkvist to the left side...his game would seem to transition to his off sides better.

 

[Blue Blooded]

16 points in his past 17 games. It's going to be hard to keep up that pace playing 10-15 minutes/night and being on the PP2, though that might be for the best since we have to re-sign him in the summer.

But Hajek-DeAngelo have been an abject disaster as a pairing, so I understand that Dave isn't too keen on sending them out there. Although that poses the question; why does he keep them together as a pairing?

I think it's becoming pretty clear that Hajek isn't an NHL defenceman at this point, though we might need Staal to return from injury to move him out of the lineup - and that's something I'd never thought I'd wind up wishing for. Staal-Fox has actually been our 3nd best pairing this season behind Skjei-DeAngelo and Skjei-Fox metric-wise this season, while the bottom three pairings are Hajek-Trouba, Hajek-DeAngelo and Staal-DeAngelo.