Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo - Part II

[nyr2k2]

Mike Silinger switched teams almost every year to the point where it seemed like he’d played for every team in the league. It didn’t make him any less of a valuable depth player.

I really don’t see what moving teams has to do with anything.

By itself, not really a whole lot. Maybe nothing at all. But you have to ask the question why a guy is moving teams. Like, why did Tampa draft him 19th then trade him after a fantastic final year in the OHL and a good rookie campaign, for the 37th pick? That's worth examining (I mean it's beating a dead horse now, but just for the sake of argument).

Why was Arizona so eager to target and acquire him, but then willing to flip him just a year later (because they really wanted Stepan, but also probably because Tippett didn't like him that much and whatever else; they wouldn't give up Chychrun but were fine moving him)?

I mean really, being traded twice by 23 isn't a big deal in itself. It's the "read between the lines" aspect of it, where I think it's being implied that at least part of the reason he has been moved twice was because he wasn't viewed favorably by either the coach, GM, or both--which may be the case again, with us.

 

[Edge]

And that’s the thing. I get the ADA love, I get the arguments in his favor. I do. I get it.

But he’s now been flipped by 2 NHL organizations, and still isn’t playing every day for his second coach with his third organization.

Could be nothing there. Could be the circumstance. Could be stupid coaches.

But his case is just so different than most, it draws attention.

 

[Inferno]

And that’s the thing. I get the ADA love, I get the arguments in his favor. I do. I get it.

But he’s now been flipped by 2 NHL organizations, and still isn’t playing every day for his second coach with his third organization.

Could be nothing there. Could be the circumstance. Could be stupid coaches.

But his case is just so different than most, it draws attention.

I think it's off the ice and on the bench type stuff...I'd be surprised if he wasn't a bad teammate...

 

[Rempe73]

And that’s the thing. I get the ADA love, I get the arguments in his favor. I do. I get it.

But he’s now been flipped by 2 NHL organizations, and still isn’t playing every day for his second coach with his third organization.

Could be nothing there. Could be the circumstance. Could be stupid coaches.

But his case is just so different than most, it draws attention.

What makes it even stranger is he looked really good at the beginning of the season, then fell off for some games, and was decent his last game. He’s just dumb on the ice with his penalties, and probably an a-hole off the ice.

 

[Edge]

I think it's off the ice and on the bench type stuff...I'd be surprised if he wasn't a bad teammate...

And it’s hard for me to say because there’s really not a whole lot out there in most channels.

Generally speaking, with “problem” players there is usually some chatter. Obviously we don’t really go into that on here because for liability reasons, but I’ve had conversations with people on here via PM where we’ve discussed why certain talented young players are “surprisingly” moved — sometimes more than once.

I have to tell you, I’ve not really heard that with ADA. Whatever disconnect there is, I don’t get the sense it’s with teammates. Coaches and front offices? That’s a maybe, but still a mystery.

 

[McRanger]

Trying to gauge how much of a precedent there is.

For as much as we might try to fight these things, they usually do give us a pretty good idea of what we’re looking at.

And that last part is pretty telling - for all his talent, history tends to point to ADA maybe being more of a depth player than a core player. That kind of goes back to my question about how many went on to become stars, first pairing, etc.

There are probably not too many cases. Some. But not many.

I just don’t think it matters much. Every individual and situation is unique.

I was recently discussing our 2014 run, just think about at how aburd everything looks. Our best player was a 7th round pick who’ll possibly be a 1st ballot HOFer. Our leading scorer was from Norway. Norway. We traded our captain away mid year and went to the final without a captain. The guy we got back was the reigning Art Ross winner, he was undrafted and won at age 37. Of our top 2 RHD, one we got because of weird pulmonary issues and the other was undrafted out of the OHL. Pouliot’s weird career arc. Derek Stepan’s tap dancing. And of course we played a team in the finals that went to three straight 7 game series, the same team that two years before won the cup as an 8th seed.

If there is a precedent that’s been set I think it’s significantly broader: if you have it (and aren’t too much of a pain in the ass) you have a shot at sticking. I think ADA has a shot. I’d like to find out.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

DeAngelo isnt coachable at this point, the coach has asked him to play a certain way and he isnt doing it. The guy has got to sit down, listen to the people trying to help and execute. I like his skill set, but he obviously doesnt want to do the things the coach is asking. Hopefully he figures it out but I'm doubtful, he can have all the talent in the world but if he cant be trusted by the coaches he is useless to us.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

DeAngelo isnt coachable at this point, the coach has asked him to play a certain way and he isnt doing it. The guy has got to sit down, listen to the people trying to help and execute. I like his skill set, but he obviously doesnt want to do the things the coach is asking. Hopefully he figures it out but I'm doubtful, he can have all the talent in the world but if he cant be trusted by the coaches he is useless to us.

There are other players in our lineup playing that have played crappier than ADA, and produced less.

I remember ADA in AZA. Maybe @bobbop can digest more details with me, but from what I recall ADA was a hell of a lot more of a train wreck defensively than he has been over here. Misreading basic defensive assignments. Pinching at the wrong time. Looking completely lost during cycles. A complete liability out there every 3/4 games.

I don’t care who ADA is right now. I wholeheartedly believe this is the kind of player who ultimately needs to play so he can keep progressing his game in this league.

I don’t think coaching will fill the gaps in his game as much as experience will. Let the kid play. What do we have to lose? Aside for the points he’s helped this team get when he plays?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

DeAngelo isnt coachable at this point, the coach has asked him to play a certain way and he isnt doing it. The guy has got to sit down, listen to the people trying to help and execute. I like his skill set, but he obviously doesnt want to do the things the coach is asking. Hopefully he figures it out but I'm doubtful, he can have all the talent in the world but if he cant be trusted by the coaches he is useless to us.

There is so much speculation in this thread but truly we have absolutely no idea. You don't know that he 'obviously' doesn't want to do the things the coach is asking. No one does other than the intricate members of the organization.

You very well could be right.

It very well could be that Quinn just doesn't like him personally.

It could be that the Rangers prefer to shop their other, older guys in hopes that they can sell them off next month.

It could be that they have Pionk and Shatty and see ADA as redundant with that group playing nightly.

The truth is, the situation is certainly strange, but we really don't have a clue what's going on.

 

[Edge]

There are probably not too many cases. Some. But not many.

I just don’t think it matters much. Every individual and situation is unique.

I was recently discussing our 2014 run, just think about at how aburd everything looks. Our best player was a 7th round pick who’ll possibly be a 1st ballot HOFer. Our leading scorer was from Norway. Norway. We traded our captain away mid year and went to the final without a captain. The guy we got back was the reigning Art Ross winner, he was undrafted and won at age 37. Of our top 2 RHD, one we got because of weird pulmonary issues and the other was undrafted out of the OHL. Pouliot’s weird career arc. Derek Stepan’s tap dancing. And of course we played a team in the finals that went to three straight 7 game series, the same team that two years before won the cup as an 8th seed.

If there is a precedent that’s been set I think it’s significantly broader: if you have it (and aren’t too much of a pain in the ass) you have a shot at sticking. I think ADA has a shot. I’d like to find out.

I agree with the concept of wanting to find out and anything is possible.

In the grand scheme of things I’d say the odds of something significant developing are starting to get long, so I would say that precedent does matter. While it’s true that there every situation is unique, usually history gives us at least some insight into the odds.

So we shall see.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

DeAngelo isnt coachable at this point, the coach has asked him to play a certain way and he isnt doing it. The guy has got to sit down, listen to the people trying to help and execute. I like his skill set, but he obviously doesnt want to do the things the coach is asking. Hopefully he figures it out but I'm doubtful, he can have all the talent in the world but if he cant be trusted by the coaches he is useless to us.

This is nothing but heresay. You have nothing to back this up

 

[nyr2k2]

If you guys didn't chase off Dagoon, I am positive he'd have some info. Maybe I'll hit up ol' Rick.

 

[Irishguy42]

If you guys didn't chase off Dagoon, I am positive he'd have some info. Maybe I'll hit up ol' Rick.

The only info he'll have is on wrestling photo/signing sessions and bad Lundqvist takes.

 

[nyr2k2]

The only info he'll have is on wrestling photo/signing sessions and bad Lundqvist takes.

That's not true. If you were decent to the guy he'd share a whole bunch of player-related stuff and all the gossip. Salacious stuff that even if generally known to be true, couldn't be posted here. He made a lot of friends through the merch business, his wrestling promotion stuff and just generally following the "scene" in the area. And if someone had NJ ties he knew a lot.

He could be combative here (part of it was justified) but I met the man and he was a great guy. There are plenty of otherwise respected posters with consistently terrible takes and attitudes. Dagoon got a raw deal and while most may disagree, he was a loss for the board.

But, I digress.

 

[Off Sides]

I just don't think culture is going to win them diddly-dodo without there also begin talent and smart assets management.

If they do not like him, it really should not matter, they should still play him enough to maybe turn him into trade return. It's not like they are going to go through a whole rebuild and not have issues with certain players. Are they going to try to break them all by playing lesser talents, and if that does not work turn them all into non assets?

 

[mulli25]

In the lineup or not, I really don't think there's a realistic trade scenario for ADA at this point. If he does enough on the ice for teams to express interest despite his curious situation, then he's likely shown enough to stick around here.

If he hasn't, and the Rangers are ready to part ways, he hits the waiver wire.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

The other thing that I think a lot of us gloss over is the situation when ADA was brought in versus now. Stepan was traded with the anticipation that the team was still a cup contender. ADA was already quite clearly a head case, but the team probably thought he was coming into a very mature, veteran environment that could straighten him out.

A year and a half later he's on one of the youngest teams in the league with only a few guys, Staal, Lundqvist, etc that are stable veteran presences. Moreover, he is now going through another deadline where those strong, veteran influences are completely distracted by either their status, or the status of others, some long-term friends, who will be on the move.

I'm not sure how this has all played, but quite obviously the environment that the Rangers anticipated him coming up under, and the one that has transpired are two completely different things.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Big game by Tony D. But we need to take him back out, we can't tank properly when he plays.

 

[Kovalev27]

It’s pretty obvious to me. His south jersey tough guy crap rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I’m sure it does off the ice in the locker room in practice on the bus you name it. He’s clearly not well liked. It’s not his game holding him back. He needs to calm down on the ice and at least not give coaches a reason to bench him.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

It’s pretty obvious to me. His south jersey tough guy crap rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I’m sure it does off the ice in the locker room in practice on the bus you name it. He’s clearly not well liked. It’s not his game holding him back. He needs to calm down on the ice and at least not give coaches a reason to bench him.

Or...people need to grow a damn backbone and stop getting offended so easily. OMG the guy has personality, burn him at the stake! Not everyone is going to be vanilla like Fast.

And please, dont just spew BS like "hes clearly not liked in the lockeroom" when you have nothing to back it up. He has no problem getting teammates and former teammates to his charity event each summer.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It’s pretty obvious to me. His south jersey tough guy crap rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I’m sure it does off the ice in the locker room in practice on the bus you name it. He’s clearly not well liked. It’s not his game holding him back. He needs to calm down on the ice and at least not give coaches a reason to bench him.

I'll take you don't have a clue what you're talking about for $500, Alex

 

[EdJovanovski]

Or...people need to grow a damn backbone and stop getting offended so easily. OMG the guy has personality, burn him at the stake! Not everyone is going to be vanilla like Fast.

And please, dont just spew BS like "hes clearly not liked in the lockeroom" when you have nothing to back it up. He has no problem getting teammates and former teammates to his charity event each summer.

Yea I don’t buy this lockerroom cancer idea at all, judging by social media and interviews he’s still friends with a lot of his former teammates, and gets along well with other players. Zibby was joking about him today in the postgame interview in a way that would indicate they get on pretty well.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Yea I don’t buy this lockerroom cancer idea at all, judging by social media and interviews he’s still friends with a lot of his former teammates, and gets along well with other players. Zibby was joking about him today in the postgame interview in a way that would indicate they get on pretty well.

Agreed. It's more likely the on-ice antics that get him in trouble. If he stops that, or tones it down, he'd be better off.

 

[SA16]

He’s clearly one of the six best dmen on the team and should play every game regardless of anything else his does on or off the ice. It’s the coaches job to take all the different personalities on the team and get the most out of them playing together. Not everyone is going to like each other or act in a way others like and on a team of 23 players + coaches that should be expected

 

[Inferno]

Off ice stuff is honestly the only thing that makes sense...why else is he constantly benched? He's legit our best right handed defenseman on most nights.