Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo - Part II

[will1066]

He needs a shrink, and I mean that seriously. The team, with all its resources, can have a sports psychologist work with him. Leetch and Richards are still part of the FO, as I understand, along with Drury. He should go see them. They should give him some mentoring. A lot of that negative stuff is hotheadedness and not being able to hold back from taking vengeance.

 

[Blue Blooded]

He needs a shrink, and I mean that seriously. The team, with all its resources, can have a sports psychologist work with him. Leetch and Richards are still part of the FO, as I understand, along with Drury. He should go see them. They should give him some mentoring. A lot of that negative stuff is hotheadedness and not being able to hold back from taking vengeance.

When he had a former hothead as his coach in Soo he put up 2 PPG, I wanted Keefe badly this offseason.

 

[Edge]

Again, not saying he needs to play flawless defense or that everything is going away.

And yes, there are plenty of players who carve out NHL careers with those flaws.

But ADA is not there yet, and we still don't know if ADA is going to get there.

And no, at this point, at age 23, having a clearer picture is not an unrealistic concept.

I'm not in favor of running him out of town on a rail, but we don't need to get creative to defend the fact that this is not what where anyone would've hoped or wanted to be at this point either.

 

[nyr2k2]

BTW, not playing Tony on the PP is still incredibly poor use of personnel:

View attachment 173749

I don't doubt that DeAngelo excels on the PP, but the rest of the top ten have all played 2-4 times as much on the PP as DeAngelo. I suspect most of the rest of the list is similar. If they play him, he should play on the PP, but I'm skeptical that he's as elite at creating high-danger chances as that list indicates.

 

[nyr2k2]

To be fair those 220 Professional game are mainly AHL games. And hes had 6 Coaches for those 220 games assuming the AHL teams didn't change coaches while he was there.(36 games per coach) Imagine trying to learn to play defense professionally and half way throw every season they change the system

Syracuse
Arizona
Tucson
NYR-AV
Hartford
NYR-Quinn

To be fair, he's part of the reason that he has been in a bunch of different organizations and bouncing between the AHL and NHL. There's no conspiracy against the kid. Organizations have had reasons to move on from him in relatively short order and to not have him in the NHL lineup every night. I really don't want to go down this path again, but still, at some point you have to hold the kid responsible for the road he has traveled.

 

[Edge]

To be fair, he's part of the reason that he has been in a bunch of different organizations and bouncing between the AHL and NHL. There's no conspiracy against the kid. Organizations have had reasons to move on from him in relatively short order and to not have him in the NHL lineup every night. I really don't want to go down this path again, but still, at some point you have to hold the kid responsible for the road he has traveled.

There has to be some kind of balance here. Yes, we can agree that he should be rolled out there more often and other topics.

But there's is at least some responsibility on him as well. And even if you're a fan of ADA, and one of his biggest supporters, you probably can't say that this is where they thought or hoped he'd be at this point in his career. And some of that is because he's still doing certain things far too frequently and not necessarily compensating for it in other areas.

He doesn't have to be perfect, but he probably should be further along at this point. And some of that is on him.

 

[NYR Viper]

There has to be some kind of balance here. Yes, we can agree that he should be rolled out there more often and other topics.

But there's is at least some responsibility on him as well. And even if you're a fan of ADA, and one of his biggest supporters, you probably can't say that this is where they thought or hoped he'd be at this point in his career. And some of that is because he's still doing certain things far too frequently and not necessarily compensating for it in other areas.

He doesn't have to be perfect, but he probably should be further along at this point. And some of that is on him.

When he plays though he has a positive effect on the game pretty regularly. He makes mistakes, yes, but the underlying numbers are good. I am slightly confused by why a guy like Pionk can play through his growing pains and yet they are reluctant to do so with DeAngelo.

 

[Edge]

When he plays though he has a positive effect on the game pretty regularly. He makes mistakes, yes, but the underlying numbers are good. I am slightly confused by why a guy like Pionk can play through his growing pains and yet they are reluctant to do so with DeAngelo.

Pionk is a different subject and we can debate Pionk in the Pionk thread or use the Quinn thread to debate why Quinn does what he does and whether we agree with it.

But it still doesn't change the core concept that ADA still has significant work to do despite being 3 pro seasons into his career.

 

[mrmovies779]

When he plays though he has a positive effect on the game pretty regularly. He makes mistakes, yes, but the underlying numbers are good. I am slightly confused by why a guy like Pionk can play through his growing pains and yet they are reluctant to do so with DeAngelo.

Might be behind the scenes stuff we,as fans,will never hear about.Some things he continues to do or things they continue to ask him to do or work on that he doesnt do.Bad practice habits,not listening to the coaches.Something is clearly going on and most likely has been going on for a few years and multiple teams,but we probably will never know what. **for the record im not saying any of this is true,but its not wrong to wonder what exactly the problem is here and why this talented kid just cant seem to put it together and take the next step**

 

[nyr2k2]

When he plays though he has a positive effect on the game pretty regularly. He makes mistakes, yes, but the underlying numbers are good. I am slightly confused by why a guy like Pionk can play through his growing pains and yet they are reluctant to do so with DeAngelo.

There has to be something more to it than just what he does on the ice. Tampa drafts him 19th then two years later trades him for the 37 pick? He has some issues in Arizona and can't stay on the ice and within a year he's traded here? And then he can't stay on the ice here with two different coaches, the latter coaching a rebuild? Again--there must be more to it than just his on-ice performance, because otherwise at worst he's a decent player with upside.

There are a lot of people who are adamant that it's just Quinn being unfair or whatever, but if you take the totality of the kid's career, I don't know how you could refuse to acknowledge it's at least possible that there's more to it than his play. It's the only logical explanation.

 

[Off Sides]

Some of that may be on him, some of it on the Rangers lack of foresight, do they really believe in three years any of the time they are using on McQuaid, Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, is going to mean anything?

While using that time on Pionk, ADA, Claesson may not either, at the very least there is a chance it could mean something.

 

[True Blue]

Some of that may be on him, some of it on the Rangers lack of foresight, do they really believe in three years any of the time they are using on McQuaid, Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, is going to mean anything?

While using that time on Pionk, ADA, CLaesson may not either, at the very least there is a chance it could mean something.

Staal, can play the 3rd pairing dman role and has done so this year. Do not really see him as tradeable unless around 2/3 of his contract is eaten. Shattenkirk, maybe they think he can round into form for a trade next year? He is untradeable this year. If not to raise value for next year, then I agree as to no reason to play him. McQuaid is out there to to get whatever value he can so the can be moved for some sort of asset at TDL. Smith......here I am lost. He has no value. Each game that he plays actually sinks his value further into negatives. Just bury him in Hartford and forget about him for the next two years. He is about as tradeable as your pet rock.

 

[Off Sides]

Staal, can play the 3rd pairing dman role and has done so this year. Do not really see him as tradeable unless around 2/3 of his contract is eaten. Shattenkirk, maybe they think he can round into form for a trade next year? He is untradeable this year. If not to raise value for next year, then I agree as to no reason to play him. McQuaid is out there to to get whatever value he can so the can be moved for some sort of asset at TDL. Smith......here I am lost. He has no value. Each game that he plays actually sinks his value further into negatives. Just bury him in Hartford and forget about him for the next two years. He is about as tradeable as your pet rock.

Fine keep Staal playing and use him, at least he tries but after last night goal against where Shattenkirk who was well out of position is motioning that his teammates messed that up, in my opinion he can sit. He's lazy in his own zone, like having him be any sort of example for the youth is a good idea?

Smith I agree, there is nothing there.

McQuaid I see he tries so at least that goes in his favor, yet his time here is hopefully limited.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Staal, can play the 3rd pairing dman role and has done so this year. Do not really see him as tradeable unless around 2/3 of his contract is eaten. Shattenkirk, maybe they think he can round into form for a trade next year? He is untradeable this year. If not to raise value for next year, then I agree as to no reason to play him. McQuaid is out there to to get whatever value he can so the can be moved for some sort of asset at TDL. Smith......here I am lost. He has no value. Each game that he plays actually sinks his value further into negatives. Just bury him in Hartford and forget about him for the next two years. He is about as tradeable as your pet rock.

I doubt we can recoup the picks we traded for McQuaid... He'll probably be a throw in on a bigger Hayes or Zucc deal

 

[Fitzy]

Pionk is a different subject and we can debate Pionk in the Pionk thread or use the Quinn thread to debate why Quinn does what he does and whether we agree with it.

But it still doesn't change the core concept that ADA still has significant work to do despite being 3 pro seasons into his career.

I agree- but we;re in a rebuild season and this is the perfect kind of season to be working with a potentially promising younger player- trying to improve- rather than having him in the press box most of the time while a veteran like McQuaid plays.

This is probably our last year to see if DeAngelo can turn it around. He's an RFA and if things dont improve I doubt he will be extended an offer. Play the guy and work through the bumps.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I understand why people are unhappy with him, but he really hasn't been given any sort of fair shot. It's hard enough to play in the NHL as a young kid, it's got to be even harder when you know than each mistake might land you a long-term benching. He should have been given a spot this year and allowed 15-20 games to play himself into a permanent role.

I'm still of the belief that he has done that, so maybe there is some behind the scenes stuff, but I don't really see how anyone based on his play relative to other guys on this team, can actually believe he deserves to be benched.

 

[Kovalev27]

The kid is a complete lunatic is the issue. This must go on in practice in the cafeteria on the plane. You can’t even look at him the wrong way without him just seeing red. The coaches don’t trust him and last night is a good reason why. First game back in and he’s flying around the ice seeking out retribution instead of working on his game.

The kid oozes talent which is why he’s even gotten this far. I bitch every week about his ice time and then he goes in and makes me look like a fool. He’s probably doing the same to Quinn. At some point he needs to grow the F up listen to the coaching staff and act like a professional.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

The kid is a complete lunatic is the issue. This must go on in practice in the cafeteria on the plane. You can’t even look at him the wrong way without him just seeing red. The coaches don’t trust him and last night is a good reason why. First game back in and he’s flying around the ice seeking out retribution instead of working on his game.

The kid oozes talent which is why he’s even gotten this far. I ***** every week about his ice time and then he goes in and makes me look like a fool. He’s probably doing the same to Quinn. At some point he needs to grow the F up listen to the coaching staff and act like a professional.

Well hes out there trying to make an impact.. Hes a nasty guy, thats part of his game. Plugs like mcleod get played just for that.

 

[offdacrossbar]

missed the game

what did he do last night ?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The kid is a complete lunatic is the issue. This must go on in practice in the cafeteria on the plane. You can’t even look at him the wrong way without him just seeing red. The coaches don’t trust him and last night is a good reason why. First game back in and he’s flying around the ice seeking out retribution instead of working on his game.

The kid oozes talent which is why he’s even gotten this far. I ***** every week about his ice time and then he goes in and makes me look like a fool. He’s probably doing the same to Quinn. At some point he needs to grow the F up listen to the coaching staff and act like a professional.

I enjoyed someone showing some emotion on the ice during this losing streak.

 

[mulli25]

Well hes out there trying to make an impact.. Hes a nasty guy, thats part of his game. Plugs like mcleod get played just for that.

If a guy with his particular build and skill set thinks that's his best way to earn a steady job in the NHL, then he's a lost cause.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

DeAngelo was a 50% CF and 6% CFRel guy last year while getting 67% offensive zone starts.

This year he's a 44% CF guy and a 1.6% Rel guy getting 46% offensive zone starts. -100 shot differential.

His two most common forward linemates, Hayes and Kreider, have better CF% away from DeAngelo than DeAngelo has away from them.

Is he playing worse this year? Do the zone starts and context matter more?

 

[Vitto79]

So is he getting traded this year ? Doesn’t seem like the Coach loves him

 

[Fitzy]

So is he getting traded this year ? Doesn’t seem like the Coach loves him

He doesn't really have any trade value- and that's part of why this decision should be so easy.

NYR let bums like Gilmour and O'Gara play pretty much every game late last season, and they have a hell of a lot less potential value than ADA. Once the deadline rolls around and McQuaid/Shattenkirk are hopefully gone, it would be a crime against good management to not let ADA take serious minutes and see what he can do.

It's better than giving hopeless cases like Gilmour another run around.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

He doesn't really have any trade value- and that's part of why this decision should be so easy.

NYR let bums like Gilmour and O'Gara play pretty much every game late last season, and they have a hell of a lot less potential value than ADA. Once the deadline rolls around and McQuaid/Shattenkirk are hopefully gone, it would be a crime against good management to not let ADA take serious minutes and see what he can do.

It's better than giving hopeless cases like Gilmour another run around.

Shattenkirk is unmovable