Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo - Part II

[True Blue]

Fine keep Staal playing and use him, at least he tries but after last night goal against where Shattenkirk who was well out of position is motioning that his teammates messed that up, in my opinion he can sit. He's lazy in his own zone, like having him be any sort of example for the youth is a good idea?

I am with you on Shattenkirk. Aside from the belief that he can play himself into having trade value next year (a belief I do not really share), I do not see the benefit of having him in the lineup.

 

[nyr2k2]

Shattenkirk is unmovable

If he waived I think you could move him. You'd have to retain half his salary which hurts some, but he then becomes reasonably attractive. An acquiring team would be taking a $3.3M cap charge for 2 more years, and for cheap teams it's even more attractive because his salaries dip from $8M his first two years to $10.6M total for the final two so they'd basically be getting Shattenkirk for $5.3M over two years. For a team looking for a guy who can still do a decent job running a PP with good underlying stats, I think there would definitely be some interest. Hell you might not even have to retain 50% with that salary drop in the final two years.

I think other teams know Shattenkirk is somewhat diminished but also recognize he has been playing in a bad situation since signing here.

 

[will1066]

Phone battery at 77 percent again.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I'm beginning to think it wasn't all AV in regards to the Yandle situation. It just seems like the Rangers might not grasp just how important puck-moving D-Man are. Maybe they are stuck in the Sather glory days where strength and snarl were key.

We've had a bunch of guys come in here who brought a style different from the pylon defender and they either were relegated to the bench or given low minutes. I mean, even Shattenkirk wasn't ever really given a fair shot to prove himself (then the injuries set in, but still). It's a never-ending pattern of not trusting these guys who are more inclined offensively.

Anyways, I hope this isn't the case, but if so, God help us because we will not be good for some time. The game has changed so much over the past decade and puck moving D are much more important and hard to find than slow, steady defensive D-men.

Lastly, I realize they might be looking for a mixture of both, but the only guys who can combine top-end offensive skills with top-end defensive skills are players who end up in the hall of fame. Without a Leetch or Chara, Pronger, Weber, etc....you need to find a balance on your lines and the Rangers seemingly refuse to do that.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm beginning to think it wasn't all AV in regards to the Yandle situation. It just seems like the Rangers might not grasp just how important puck-moving D-Man are. Maybe they are stuck in the Sather glory days where strength and snarl were key.

We've had a bunch of guys come in here who brought a style different from the pylon defender and they either were relegated to the bench or given low minutes. I mean, even Shattenkirk wasn't ever really given a fair shot to prove himself (then the injuries set in, but still). It's a never-ending pattern of not trusting these guys who are more inclined offensively.

Anyways, I hope this isn't the case, but if so, God help us because we will not be good for some time. The game has changed so much over the past decade and puck moving D are much more important and hard to find than slow, steady defensive D-men.

Lastly, I realize they might be looking for a mixture of both, but the only guys who can combine top-end offensive skills with top-end defensive skills are players who end up in the hall of fame. Without a Leetch or Chara, Pronger, Weber, etc....you need to find a balance on your lines and the Rangers seemingly refuse to do that.

IDK, they just drafted Miller, Lundkvist, Keane, and Ragnarsson in one draft. Those are all projected to be able to move the puck and contribute offensively, to varying degrees. Even Gross, while he hasn't really shown it yet, is supposed to be capable. Same for Day and Reunanen. Kjellberg and Crawley are the only two guys taken in the past three years (Gorton's draft tenure) that didn't really bring any offensive component.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

IDK, they just drafted Miller, Lundkvist, Keane, and Ragnarsson in one draft. Those are all projected to be able to move the puck and contribute offensively, to varying degrees. Even Gross, while he hasn't really shown it yet, is supposed to be capable. Same for Day and Reunanen. Kjellberg and Crawley are the only two guys taken in the past three years (Gorton's draft tenure) that didn't really bring any offensive component.

But none of those guys are top level picks known for their offense. We look to be on the same trend where we'll have a ton of depth but lack a top scorer and a top PMD

 

[ThirdEye]

But none of those guys are top level picks known for their offense. We look to be on the same trend where we'll have a ton of depth but lack a top scorer and a top PMD

I'm not a fan of drafting exclusively offensive D... that has got us nowhere with guys like Sanguinetti and Del Zotto. ADA was in the same mold and still can't stick in the NHL several years later.

We're drafting slick skating D that can play defense but with still untapped offensive upside (Miller, Lundkvist, Keane). Hajek is also one such player that we didn't draft but traded for. I'm totally fine with this strategy as you don't need a D that puts up a PPG to win the Cup... you just need a bunch of guys that are not complete incompetents when it comes to generating offense when needed

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I'm not a fan of drafting exclusively offensive D... that has got us nowhere with guys like Sanguinetti and Del Zotto. ADA was in the same mold and still can't stick in the NHL several years later.

We're drafting slick skating D that can play defense but with still untapped offensive upside (Miller, Lundkvist, Keane). Hajek is also one such player that we didn't draft but traded for. I'm totally fine with this strategy as you don't need a D that puts up a PPG to win the Cup... you just need a bunch of guys that are not complete incompetents when it comes to generating offense when needed

This is also how we stay away from guys like Karlsson, Klingberg, Krug, McAvoy, Letang, Werenski.. Cant let the fear of striking out keep you from swinging..

Also when those guys reach this level, you have to give them a chance to succeed. To me it seems the Offensive guys are held to a higher standard defensively. Especially when you look at the "defensive" guys that are skating for us every game.

 

[mrmovies779]

At what point do we start putting the blame at the players feet for not "succeeding" and not everyone else around him?

 

[Thirty One]

At what point do we start putting the blame at the players feet for not "succeeding" and not everyone else around him?

8th coach.

 

[ThirdEye]

This is also how we stay away from guys like Karlsson, Klingberg, Krug, McAvoy, Letang, Werenski.. Cant let the fear of striking out keep you from swinging..

Also when those guys reach this level, you have to give them a chance to succeed. To me it seems the Offensive guys are held to a higher standard defensively. Especially when you look at the "defensive" guys that are skating for us every game.

It might be because it's difficult to hit a homerun on a purely offensive D... even from that list you gave Karlsson was a third round pick, Klingberg 5th round pick, Krug undrafted and Letang a 3rd round pick. Although those players showed glimpses of being dominant offensively, I doubt any of the teams that drafted them expected them to become as good as they did. Otherwise they would have been taken much earlier.

I think after goalies offense D are the hardest to reliably project as to if their game will successfully transfer over to the NHL.

 

[effen]

At what point do we start putting the blame at the players feet for not "succeeding" and not everyone else around him?

Never. It's the shadow assistant to the assistant to the regional manager who's giving orders for years to play guys with grit, tenacity, compete, snarl, jam, sandpaper, pugnacity and truculence.

Justice for Christian Backman!

 

[Off Sides]

At what point do we start putting the blame at the players feet for not "succeeding" and not everyone else around him?

When the Rangers show some competency in regards to devloping or even importing high level defenders.

 

[McRanger]

At what point do we start putting the blame at the players feet for not "succeeding" and not everyone else around him?

When he actually plays enough to either succeed or fail.

 

[nyr2k2]

But none of those guys are top level picks known for their offense. We look to be on the same trend where we'll have a ton of depth but lack a top scorer and a top PMD

I was just commenting on the concern that we may still be attracted to the old school, tough, pylon defenders. Our recent drafts would indicate otherwise as we haven't taken those guys, but rather mainly guys capable of moving the puck.

Also we may have tried to grab a "top-level" puck mover if we haven't had a decade-long dearth of truly elite offensive talent. I think they've been focused on finding that while hoping that some of those other guys I mentioned turn into good PMDs, particularly Miller and Lindkvist (and FWIW Miller was seen as having top level skill, but was raw; I think in a re-draft he goes a lot higher and people might consider him more high-end offensively).

I also think that if they get another first, one will be used on another defender.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I was just commenting on the concern that we may still be attracted to the old school, tough, pylon defenders. Our recent drafts would indicate otherwise as we haven't taken those guys, but rather mainly guys capable of moving the puck.

Also we may have tried to grab a "top-level" puck mover if we haven't had a decade-long dearth of truly elite offensive talent. I think they've been focused on finding that while hoping that some of those other guys I mentioned turn into good PMDs, particularly Miller and Lindkvist (and FWIW Miller was seen as having top level skill, but was raw; I think in a re-draft he goes a lot higher and people might consider him more high-end offensively).

I also think that if they get another first, one will be used on another defender.

Yea we are definitely trying to move away from the Girardi's of the world, but i think given our center depth, we need a top flight 2-way or offensive dman. Maybe miller can become that but for now he just looks like raw athlete similar to kreider and skjei. I'm more interested in drafting skill than athleticism(if you understand what i'm trying to say)

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I would like to see him get a longer leash than he has gotten. The flashes of greatness are alluring.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yea we are definitely trying to move away from the Girardi's of the world, but i think given our center depth, we need a top flight 2-way or offensive dman. Maybe miller can become that but for now he just looks like raw athlete similar to kreider and skjei. I'm more interested in drafting skill than athleticism(if you understand what i'm trying to say)

I do understand what you're saying. But other than Miller, none of the other guys would really be considered the "athlete" type, but more so the skill type (even if it's not high-end).

And other than his impressive size, IDK what makes Miller "athletic" and not skilled (I do know, but whatever). I mean he was a forward until recently. Have you seen some of the plays he has made? Grabbing a puck out of mid-air at the circle, dropping it, the snapping a laser into the top of the net, seamlessly? He can make some highly, highly skilled plays. He's raw but not lacking in natural skill by any means.

 

[mrmovies779]

When he actually plays enough to either succeed or fail.

So 3 different teams isnt enough?I suppose the problem is those organizations and couldnt possibly be the player.

 

[Rangers in 7]

So 3 different teams isnt enough?I suppose the problem is those organizations and couldnt possibly be the player.

this type of comment really grinds my gears.....ill tell you why, do you think no player has gone through teams like he has? im sure that at 23 YEARS OLD there is no way a player can continue to grow, paul coffey was traded 7, ill repeat that typed out SEVEN times in his career. that must make him a cancer and a horrible hockey player

give me a break man

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I do understand what you're saying. But other than Miller, none of the other guys would really be considered the "athlete" type, but more so the skill type (even if it's not high-end).

And other than his impressive size, IDK what makes Miller "athletic" and not skilled (I do know, but whatever). I mean he was a forward until recently. Have you seen some of the plays he has made? Grabbing a puck out of mid-air at the circle, dropping it, the snapping a laser into the top of the net, seamlessly? He can make some highly, highly skilled plays. He's raw but not lacking in natural skill by any means.

Personally I'd consider than an athlete play rather than a skill one.. I call him an athlete over a skill player because of his size and movement ability at that size.

 

[mrmovies779]

this type of comment really grinds my gears.....ill tell you why, do you think no player has gone through teams like he has? im sure that at 23 YEARS OLD there is no way a player can continue to grow, paul coffey was traded 7, ill repeat that typed out SEVEN times in his career. that must make him a cancer and a horrible hockey player

give me a break man

Great.When is he going to start growing?5th team?6th?When hes playing overseas?

 

[McRanger]

So 3 different teams isnt enough?I suppose the problem is those organizations and couldnt possibly be the player.

I can't say I give much of a shit what he did with other teams, to be honest. He's here now, he's an active member of the roster, and he has not in any real way been outperformed by his older and more expensive teammates (who have no future with his team) and yet he is frequently sitting in favor of them.

The lack of any real on ice reason for his extended scratchings is the reason why people need to hypothesize he's got some off ice stuff going on like he naps during practice or is a serial shower urinator.

Until he gets the chance to actually succeed or fail here, people are going to want to see whether he will succeed or fail. Its a weird situation but its not exactly a complicated one.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Great.When is he going to start growing?5th team?6th?When hes playing overseas?

god i wish there was a dislike button on this forum

hes 23 years old for gods sake, if he was 27 or 28 id agree with you but damn

 

[nyr2k2]

Personally I'd consider than an athlete play rather than a skill one.. I call him an athlete over a skill player because of his size and movement ability at that size.

He's basically the same size as Burns, Carlson, Ekholm, Byfuglien, Hedman, Seth Jones, Nurse, etc. Smaller than some of them. And plenty of forwards like Ovechkin, Rantanen, Stone, Wheeler, etc. Those are big dudes and they move around (generally) great. They also have a lot of skill. You can be big and move around well and still have skill. Miller has plenty of skill.