Rumor: Tony DeAngelo being traded back to Carolina next month but he also could not be.

[landsbergfan]

Ask the Kraken and Vegas about the value of retention slots. Instead, Kevin Hayes clogs up one of ours for 3 seasons with a 6th round pick as compensation.

Longer than 3 years if he gets bought out too

 

[deadhead]

Hayes and TDA free up $6M, puts Flyers at $12M plus $6M LTIR.
That's a lot of ammunition for Briere to work with today to close deals.
Flyers can easily eat a $4-5M contract if a team needs cap room to close a deal.

 

[Lindberg]

Hayes and TDA free up $6M, puts Flyers at $12M plus $6M LTIR.
That's a lot of ammunition for Briere to work with today to close deals.
Flyers can easily eat a $4-5M contract if a team needs cap room to close a deal.

The Flyers should just buy out TDA instead of wasting a retention slot on him unless they really really like the player from Carolina. The TDL seems like a perfect opportunity to eat up cap space to make deals happen for other teams and acquire assets.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The Flyers should just buy out TDA instead of wasting a retention slot on him unless they really really like the player from Carolina. The TDL seems like a perfect opportunity to eat up cap space to make deals happen for other teams and acquire assets.

Don't waste retention spots because we can use them for assets but don't trade a player for assets and waste retention spot...interesting.

 

[Curufinwe]

Massimo Rizzo at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Massimo Rizzo, 2001-06-13 Burnaby, BC, CAN Canada. Most recently in the NCAA with Univ. of Denver. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[Lindberg]

Don't waste retention spots because we can use them for assets but don't trade a player for assets and waste retention spot...interesting.

I'd much rather them wait to the TDL and optimize the value of a retention slot when teams are willing to pay more for a player. The player TDA is going to return is likely nothing of value.

 

[deadhead]

I'd much rather them wait to the TDL and optimize the value of a retention slot when teams are willing to pay more for a player. The player TDA is going to return is likely nothing of value.

If you're not trading a high cap player, an retention slot has limited value at the TDL.
The most likely player to be moved is Walker, at $2.65M max retention is only $1.33M.
Atkinson is an outside chance, but a team would have to keep him next season.
That's about it.

 

[GKJ]

 

[Lindberg]

If you're not trading a high cap player, an retention slot has limited value at the TDL.
The most likely player to be moved is Walker, at $2.65M max retention is only $1.33M.
Atkinson is an outside change, but a team would have to keep him next season.
That's about it.

Think 3 way trade.

 

[deadhead]

Think 3 way trade.

They happen, but you don't need a retention slot, a lot of those deals are contract dumps.

 

[Lindberg]

They happen, but you don't need a retention slot, a lot of those deals are contract dumps.

The last thing the Flyers need to do is minimize options for themselves.

I'm lukewarm about diving into reclamation projects but I'd be more ok with the TDA retention if that was the case. Owen Tippett has turned out nicely from the Florida trade (being a throw in). To retain on a (potential) former 7th round pick from Carolina? Seems more of a just shaking the mystery 8 ball than anything else.

 

[DancingPanther]

Don't waste retention spots because we can use them for assets but don't trade a player for assets and waste retention spot...interesting.

Stop being confused on purpose.

 

[Curufinwe]

Tipett was never a throw in.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I'd much rather them wait to the TDL and optimize the value of a retention slot when teams are willing to pay more for a player. The player TDA is going to return is likely nothing of value.

Stop being confused on purpose.

It's a bizarre take. We can't use retention spots because we might need retention spots, but also we need assets for the rebuild, but we should the turn them down because there is a chance that possibly maybe in the future there might possibly be a chance to get a better asset. I can understand that logic if there was a market for TDA that could bring back something with him at full salary, great. But there isn't. This isn't a situation with Laughton or Konecny where their value can easily improve (or at least not decline). TDA is shit and no one wants him. If we get a 7th for him with salary retained, do it.

The major problem with this logic is that in order to maximize retention spots, we need players that have contracts that need to be retained. TDA is gone after this year one way or another. If getting a random pick for that at 50%, do it. That would give us one retention spot left if someone wants to maybe take Atkinson off our hands (I doubt they retain on anyone else presently on the roster and I also doubt that anyone has much interest in Atkinson). That means your concern is that using TDA's spot would someone compromise what would otherwise be multiple deals. I could see if there were other contracts that we could ship out and TDA's retention would take up the last spot. Then yes, don't do it. But we have 2 right now and nothing realistically on the horizon. Could it happen at the TDL, sure. And lucky for us using TDA still leaves us with a chance for that. Could there be two options and we can't do it this year because of TDA...sure, but we can do it in the offseason next year. If there is going to be an option at the TDL that you are afraid we will miss because we don't have a retention spot, I will bet that there will be a similar opportunity in the offseason when the TDA retention spot is gone.

People need to remember that this rebuild is going to be long. Like really long. So we will likely be doing this retention stuff even when Hayes's contract retention is over. This rebuild is not going to be fixed through one year or one draft. There's always the possibility of a better deal. If they don't use the retention spot at the deadline and TDA leaves as a UFA, that's a waste. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Take the pick/prospect for TDA, retain, and use the other retention spot at the deadline. Then use the TDA spot again in the offseason on someone. Take a bad contract. Plenty of options.

 

[DancingPanther]

It's a bizarre take. We can't use retention spots because we might need retention spots, but also we need assets for the rebuild, but we should the turn them down because there is a chance that possibly maybe in the future there might possibly be a chance to get a better asset. I can understand that logic if there was a market for TDA that could bring back something with him at full salary, great. But there isn't. This isn't a situation with Laughton or Konecny where their value can easily improve (or at least not decline). TDA is shit and no one wants him. If we get a 7th for him with salary retained, do it.

The major problem with this logic is that in order to maximize retention spots, we need players that have contracts that need to be retained. TDA is gone after this year one way or another. If getting a random pick for that at 50%, do it. That would give us one retention spot left if someone wants to maybe take Atkinson off our hands (I doubt they retain on anyone else presently on the roster and I also doubt that anyone has much interest in Atkinson). That means your concern is that using TDA's spot would someone compromise what would otherwise be multiple deals. I could see if there were other contracts that we could ship out and TDA's retention would take up the last spot. Then yes, don't do it. But we have 2 right now and nothing realistically on the horizon. Could it happen at the TDL, sure. And lucky for us using TDA still leaves us with a chance for that. Could there be two options and we can't do it this year because of TDA...sure, but we can do it in the offseason next year. If there is going to be an option at the TDL that you are afraid we will miss because we don't have a retention spot, I will bet that there will be a similar opportunity in the offseason when the TDA retention spot is gone.

People need to remember that this rebuild is going to be long. Like really long. So we will likely be doing this retention stuff even when Hayes's contract retention is over. This rebuild is not going to be fixed through one year or one draft. There's always the possibility of a better deal. If they don't use the retention spot at the deadline and TDA leaves as a UFA, that's a waste. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Take the pick/prospect for TDA, retain, and use the other retention spot at the deadline. Then use the TDA spot again in the offseason on someone. Take a bad contract. Plenty of options.

I'm not reading all that, but you and I both know that a 6th round pick in 2024 is not reasonable compensation for the value 3.6 mil x3 yrs sitting in a retention slot. At that point, you could either wait it out until the contract expires since the contract itself won't prohibit the Flyers from doing anything, or maybe strike some legit value on the offchsnce of a bounce back season or an injury riddled playoff hopeful comes knocking around the trade deadline.

You wrote a novella about something, but I know that you know this is yet another example in a laundry list of piss poor asset management

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I'm not reading all that, but you and I both know that a 6th round pick in 2024 is not reasonable compensation for the value 3.6 mil x3 yrs sitting in a retention slot. At that point, you could either wait it out until the contract expires since the contract itself won't prohibit the Flyers from doing anything, or maybe strike some legit value on the offchsnce of a bounce back season or an injury riddled playoff hopeful comes knocking around the trade deadline.

You wrote a novella about something, but I know that you know this is yet another example in a laundry list of piss poor asset management

Huh? The post was about using a retention spot on TDA and nothing to do with Hayes. But I guess that's what happens when you don't read the post.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Huh? The post was about using a retention spot on TDA and nothing to do with Hayes. But I guess that's what happens when you don't read the post.

How about this... Just buy his ass out and not waste the retention slot?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Huh? The post was about using a retention spot on TDA and nothing to do with Hayes. But I guess that's what happens when you don't read the post.

Anyway, I'll answer your post:

Do you think trading TDA with retention for a prospect that will never leave the AHL is something that actually contributes to our rebuild in any meaningful way?

I'll tell you this: I'd rather have the retention slot and buy out TDA than that prospect. I'd rather have the option to retain on Konecny, Farabee, Sanheim, Hart, Laughton, etc. than get back a nothing prospect for TDA.

 

[Curufinwe]

Ugh, I don't want to retain on anyone else with 3+ years left.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Ugh, I don't want to retain on anyone else with 3+ years left.

Neither do I. I advise against it honestly, but it's all about the return.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

How about this... Just buy his ass out and not waste the retention slot?

I mean sure, that's an option too, I am just not sure I understand who we are using these retention spots on that we need to not use them and forego getting an asset. We have two open ones. Is there two players on our roster now that we should use them on for whom there is a market? I don't see one other than maybe Atkinson, which seems unlikely unless he really bounces back this year and is healthy so I doubt he garners much of a return, probably similar to what TDA does and TDA's retention ends next year. But ok so we trade Atkinson for a similar return to TDA and longer retention...and then who else? Hope that someone wants to trade us a bad contract that we can flip and return. That's far from a guarantee. Get something for TDA and use the other spot later. Then next offseason you have another spot. That seems like better asset management than not getting an asset in hopes of possibly getting an asset later, which is the exact f***ing thing we all killed Fletcher for at the deadline.

 

[dragonoffrost]

I mean sure, that's an option too, I am just not sure I understand who we are using these retention spots on that we need to not use them and forego getting an asset. We have two open ones. Is there two players on our roster now that we should use them on for whom there is a market? I don't see one other than maybe Atkinson, which seems unlikely unless he really bounces back this year and is healthy so I doubt he garners much of a return, probably similar to what TDA does and TDA's retention ends next year. But ok so we trade Atkinson for a similar return to TDA and longer retention...and then who else? Hope that someone wants to trade us a bad contract that we can flip and return. That's far from a guarantee. Get something for TDA and use the other spot later. Then next offseason you have another spot. That seems like better asset management than not getting an asset in hopes of possibly getting an asset later, which is the exact f***ing thing we all killed Fletcher for at the deadline.

You keep it to weaponize it and your cap space for a better asset now or at the trade deadline. This includes considering using those to facilitate trades that don't include our roster.

 

[DancingPanther]

Huh? The post was about using a retention spot on TDA and nothing to do with Hayes. But I guess that's what happens when you don't read the post.

Using a retention slot has plenty to do with Hayes

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I mean sure, that's an option too, I am just not sure I understand who we are using these retention spots on that we need to not use them and forego getting an asset. We have two open ones. Is there two players on our roster now that we should use them on for whom there is a market? I don't see one other than maybe Atkinson, which seems unlikely unless he really bounces back this year and is healthy so I doubt he garners much of a return, probably similar to what TDA does and TDA's retention ends next year. But ok so we trade Atkinson for a similar return to TDA and longer retention...and then who else? Hope that someone wants to trade us a bad contract that we can flip and return. That's far from a guarantee. Get something for TDA and use the other spot later. Then next offseason you have another spot. That seems like better asset management than not getting an asset in hopes of possibly getting an asset later, which is the exact f***ing thing we all killed Fletcher for at the deadline.

It's simple.

How many players on our roster right now out of the list below, in an ideal world, should we be trading?
- Sanheim
- Konecny
- TDA
- Farabee
- Laughton
- Hart
- Ristolanen

Now from that list, which would ideally have their salaries retained in order to bring back a significant asset (more than a meh prospect from Carolina)?

If the answer is 2 players (other than TDA), then that's why it matters,

I'll say for myself, I think you get back a lot more if you retain on Konecny and Laughton in particular. That's 2 easy answers automatically. I don't want TDA's meager return to interfere with what could be a good haul for those two.

The difference between trading Laughton for a 1 & 3 may be that retention spot. Could just be a 1 without it.

You willing to give up a 3rd just for a meh prospect from Carolina in the TDA deal? I'm not.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Anyway, I'll answer your post:

Do you think trading TDA with retention for a prospect that will never leave the AHL is something that actually contributes to our rebuild in any meaningful way?

I'll tell you this: I'd rather have the retention slot and buy out TDA than that prospect. I'd rather have the option to retain on Konecny, Farabee, Sanheim, Hart, Laughton, etc. than get back a nothing prospect for TDA.

That's pretty wild. You'd take longer retentions on guys with actual value who don't need to be retained on and have dead cap space than get an asset essentially for nothing (thus clogging up retention slots for years to come, many in some cases like Sanheim). And again...WE STILL HAVE A SPOT IF WE RETAIN ON TDA AND THAT SPOT BECOMES AVAILABLE AFTER THIS COMING SEASON. You want to be a hardline on using retention spots but you want to retain on an 8 year deal, 5 year deal, 3 year deal, 2 year deal, and 1 year deal on guys with positive value and reasonable contracts. THAT is bad asset management.