Definitely makes sense to trade the most dynamic forward outside of Datsyuk. If you're going for a boring, vanilla offense it's a great idea.
Tomas Tatar
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Heaton
Moderator
The idea would be to make a better overall team. This team is sorely missing an elite puck moving defenseman.
...Yea
And you hope that translates to goals. Hope. Once Datsyuk is gone Tatar is instantly the most dynamic forward. It makes no sense to trade that. I don't quite feel like looking at the all the stats but I'd be willing to bet that he has the most ES goals on the team. It makes no sense to trade that.
I'm all for a PMD though
Heaton
Moderator
If Tatar were a center, you'd be right. You build teams down the middle. The Wings have plenty of offensive skilled winger.
But not to worry, Holland doesn't trade roster players.
Ummm...
What does being a center have anything to do with being the most dynamic forward on the club? Nyquist is the only other offensive skilled winger that can score goals and SIXTY PERCENT of them come from the PP. We'll see what Jurco can do. We'll see what Mantha can do. Forgot about Franzen, probably because he doesn't score goals anymore. Dat skil doe.
You are correct though, on both accounts. Building in the middle and Holland.
Sheriff Bert
Blash is Trash
I would trade Jurco>Tatar anyday, and if his value isn't enough then bundle him with other assets. The point is that this team is having trouble scoring goals over this recent slump, and that is something that Franzen/Jurco have failed to do. Franzen's contract is basically untradeable, but Jurco's is.
Here is a fact that I have stated on many threads here. Jurco has not scored a goal in over a month, 17 games to be exact. Plus, he's been given time on scoring lines. We don't need players who have potential but cannot convert. That is what rebuilding teams such as the Coyotes are doing right now. Jurco is on pace for a worse season than last, and that was in a shortened period of time.
And for those who argue that Jurco has more size, has better puck skills, etc. we do not necessarily need that. Mantha is pretty big, as is Athanasiou, plus we have two grinders who may be goal scorers in Callahan and Bertuzzi. And if that isn't enough, Pulu can finally get called up and given a chance to take Jurco's spot.
Here is a fact that I have stated on many threads here. Jurco has not scored a goal in over a month, 17 games to be exact. Plus, he's been given time on scoring lines. We don't need players who have potential but cannot convert. That is what rebuilding teams such as the Coyotes are doing right now. Jurco is on pace for a worse season than last, and that was in a shortened period of time.
And for those who argue that Jurco has more size, has better puck skills, etc. we do not necessarily need that. Mantha is pretty big, as is Athanasiou, plus we have two grinders who may be goal scorers in Callahan and Bertuzzi. And if that isn't enough, Pulu can finally get called up and given a chance to take Jurco's spot.
Heaton
Moderator
That's fine, but just don't expect to land any impact players by trading guys with less value. I don't want to trade Tatar, but if that's what it takes, so be it.
Sheriff Bert
Blash is Trash
I'm thinking that Myers/Yandle would require Tats and I would hate to see the Wings even take one more look at Myers.
Whereas Jurco/Smith/Pick is probably enough for a Green.
Byfuglien may be somewhere in the middle. I think that his value has gotten a lot higher as of recently though.
If worse comes to worse Petry may only cost a 2nd pick but that would be a choice only if all others get traded or prices are too high.
You are absolutely right, we don't know who is actually available. We don't even know if Meyers, Green and Yandle are actually available. This is true for those who oppose trading Tatar because they don't think that any good defensemen are actually available, and also true for those who think we can just flip Tatar for a meaningful upgrade with a snap of the fingers. Holland could have less potential trade options just as easily as he could have more potential options.
If you show me the right package, I would consider trading Tatar (or any other player for the matter). That package, however, needs to contain a serious, serious upgrade on defense. That list of players is very short in my book.
agree
players who drive possession are the best kind of player, since possession (not points or skills) is the best predictor of winning. that combined with tatar's offensive awareness and energy means trading him is stupid outside of a big return, and especially since tatar is young and has shown fairly consistent improvement.
his status as a W is much less important than his status as a good scorer who drives possession.
any player is worth trading for the right return, though.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
I don't think moving Tatar is very practical. I'd go so far to say of all the young players on the team he should probably be the most off limits. He drives possession in a completely incomparable way. Though I believe just about every player has their price, I do not believe a trade centered around Myers for Tatar is practical at this time. This is also further shoddy journalism by St. James who has to be my least favorite beat writer in Detroit, and has been for several seasons now.
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HisNoodliness
Good things come to those who wait
Ugh if we trade Tatar plus a second for Myers I'm going to be pretty pissed. I can see the headlines now: "Red Wings astonishingly go ten games without scoring after Datsyuk and Zetterberg injuries. Winless skid stretches to 13." Definitely an exaggeration, but Tatar is a valuable part of this team that's reaching his potential and looks to be a perennial 25-30 goal scorer. I don't care if he's a wing. He drives possession, and puts up points, not to mention that he's superbly entertaining to watch. I think the answer to our defensive woes has to be a short term righty rental plus a couple of XO, Sproul, Jensen, Marchenko. At this point I think we have to put our eggs in the basket of one of those kids developing into a top guy (hopefully one of the righties haha, though XO is definitely the best of the bunch as of now). And if we end up with 6 second line D, that'd be fine too. Three good lines is pretty similar to a great one, a good one and a bad one. I just don't see Myers as this huge upgrade. He has tools, and lots of stuff to like, he also has problems though and I think trading a sure-fire good piece of our future for a maybe, hopefully 1st line D is a little crazy.
joe89
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- Apr 30, 2009
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If you always expect to get fleeced, then sure you can't trade Tatar. Or anyone good for that matter.
There are actual hockey trades out there who are fair and make both teams better. If such trade is out there I'd trade anyone but Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall on this team. But it takes guts and Holland is far too sensible(or cautious) to trade anyone on the upper half of the roster.
I feel confident Tatar will be a perennial 25 goal guy, and some prime years maybe even sniffing 40. He's not gonna be the backbone in the sense he'll make other players significantly better or wow you with amazing two-way hockey, but a top3 offensive forward on your team absolutely. It takes a lot to trade that away when the player is 24.
There are actual hockey trades out there who are fair and make both teams better. If such trade is out there I'd trade anyone but Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall on this team. But it takes guts and Holland is far too sensible(or cautious) to trade anyone on the upper half of the roster.
I feel confident Tatar will be a perennial 25 goal guy, and some prime years maybe even sniffing 40. He's not gonna be the backbone in the sense he'll make other players significantly better or wow you with amazing two-way hockey, but a top3 offensive forward on your team absolutely. It takes a lot to trade that away when the player is 24.
I'd argue that he already does given how much he drives possession no matter who he plays with.
Frk It
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I mean, he's averaging 12 minutes of ice time per game on the season. And he just turned 22. I'm not really worried at all about him. Last year his kid line was on fire, and he got a lot of opportunity due to injuries. The fact that he was able to make the team at 21 and seems to be a guy Babcock likes is one hell of an endorsement by itself.
Before moving Tatar, I think the Wings really need to get a better idea of what they have in Pulks....
Would it be completely crazy to send Jurco down to GR for a stretch to give Pulks a look now?
Saying that, I love Tatar and would not like to seem him moved unless it is for an equally impact player. If Pulks can be step in and be productive, then it opens a lot of possibilities for the wings.
Would it be completely crazy to send Jurco down to GR for a stretch to give Pulks a look now?
Saying that, I love Tatar and would not like to seem him moved unless it is for an equally impact player. If Pulks can be step in and be productive, then it opens a lot of possibilities for the wings.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
This is a bit typical of hfboards. Calling for prospects to be brought into the NHL quicker, but then not be willing to deal with some struggles as those young players adapt.
Imo Jurco's potential is higher than any of those players except for Mantha.
Agreed. He is doing fine and will get better as he goes just like all of the younger players
JPE123
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2013
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I've thought this too. Maybe a little time in GR would get Jurco's confidence back and get him scoring goals again. And a chance to get a good look at Pulks. If Pulks shows a lot we have a lot of options. I don't think a little time in GR would hurt Jurco at all.
I like the sound of this. I think that's a great idea and would benefit both Pulks and Jurco. Pulks has earned some games and Jurco could use a confidence boost from inferior competition.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
We've needed a Tatar, both on the ice and off the ice, for quite some time now.
detredWINgs
Registered User
Babs just said a month ago something about him being harder on Tatar than anyone else because he thinks so highly of Tatar. Someone find that quote.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Babs just said a month ago something about him being harder on Tatar than anyone else because he thinks so highly of Tatar. Someone find that quote.
They're totally bros
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/red_wings_tomas_jurco_playing.html
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