Tomas Tatar

[detredWINgs]

I would trade Jurco>Tatar anyday, and if his value isn't enough then bundle him with other assets. The point is that this team is having trouble scoring goals over this recent slump, and that is something that Franzen/Jurco have failed to do. Franzen's contract is basically untradeable, but Jurco's is.

Here is a fact that I have stated on many threads here. Jurco has not scored a goal in over a month, 17 games to be exact. Plus, he's been given time on scoring lines. We don't need players who have potential but cannot convert. That is what rebuilding teams such as the Coyotes are doing right now. Jurco is on pace for a worse season than last, and that was in a shortened period of time.

And for those who argue that Jurco has more size, has better puck skills, etc. we do not necessarily need that. Mantha is pretty big, as is Athanasiou, plus we have two grinders who may be goal scorers in Callahan and Bertuzzi. And if that isn't enough, Pulu can finally get called up and given a chance to take Jurco's spot.

The thing with Jurco is, he's going to get more in a trade than he is of value to your team in the short term, and possibly long term. His size and skill are nice and all, but while he could be Hossa Lite, he could also be another MPS. I'm not "giving up on him" but I'm also not getting caught up in the size factor. So, IMO, if you can get away with taking Tatar off the table and putting a Jurco package up there as a substitute, I'd take that and run.

 

[detredWINgs]

They're totally bros

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/red_wings_tomas_jurco_playing.html

Great find.

 

[Sheriff Bert]

The thing with Jurco is, he's going to get more in a trade than he is of value to your team in the short term, and possibly long term. His size and skill are nice and all, but while he could be Hossa Lite, he could also be another MPS. I'm not "giving up on him" but I'm also not getting caught up in the size factor. So, IMO, if you can get away with taking Tatar off the table and putting a Jurco package up there as a substitute, I'd take that and run.

I would as well. With Mantha, Athanasiou, Callahan, and Bertuzzi all being potential scoring wingers with size, it sort of makes Jurco expendable. It's not like trading him would affect our immediate offense anyways, if not better it by adding an offensive defenseman. It's not only the point stats that are down with Jurco either. This year compared to last year, his hits, shots, and blocks with nearly the exact same amounts of ice time played.

I think some people get caught up in his Youtube skills videos. That's where they see the potential, but he hasn't shown any of those skills yet, and he hasn't even been able to convert in a shootout for us. We have the depth prospect-wise and roster player-wise. I still would prefer to trade Jurco even if we have to bundle.

 

[Frk It]

I would as well. With Mantha, Athanasiou, Callahan, and Bertuzzi all being potential scoring wingers with size, it sort of makes Jurco expendable. It's not like trading him would affect our immediate offense anyways, if not better it by adding an offensive defenseman. It's not only the point stats that are down with Jurco either. This year compared to last year, his hits, shots, and blocks with nearly the exact same amounts of ice time played.

I think some people get caught up in his Youtube skills videos. That's where they see the potential, but he hasn't shown any of those skills yet, and he hasn't even been able to convert in a shootout for us. We have the depth prospect-wise and roster player-wise. I still would prefer to trade Jurco even if we have to bundle.

I agree that I would trade Jurco before Tatar, but you are selling Jurco short big time. He made the team full time as a 21 year old, even with Holland having the option to send him down. He is on the team for a reason. He is far from hitting his peak, even if he is in a "lull" right now, not producing with 12 minutes of ice time a game.

He HAS shown flashes. Maybe not stupid youtube tricks, but I have seen him make seeing-eye passes, I have seen some nice snipes on the PP, I have seen him protect the puck and make power forward moves. It is there if you are paying attention. Babcock pointed out that he needs to work on his finishing ability, particularly in practice (http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/red_wings_tomas_jurco_playing.html). Most of what he needs work on will get worked out as he matures both mentally and physically, and learns to be a pro. And he has nothing but great examples in which to do so. Sometimes bigger guys need more time, we saw it with Franzen.

 

[Sheriff Bert]

I agree that I would trade Jurco before Tatar, but you are selling Jurco short big time. He made the team full time as a 21 year old, even with Holland having the option to send him down. He is on the team for a reason. He is far from hitting his peak, even if he is in a "lull" right now, not producing with 12 minutes of ice time a game.

True, but what other options do we have at forward? Joker and Cleary.... I would take Jurco over those two any day even if he is slumping. Plus nobody had any idea that he would slump this poorly after what he did last year with a depleted roster. At least he isn't a giant minus either, with a plus 7 right now.

It's not even the point that I want to see Jurco traded, I would just be pretty angry to see Tatar go over him. Tatar and Nyquist are both key players to the future.

 

[Claypool]

Red Wings' Tomas Tatar emerging as very bankable asset

This article is becoming more and more ridiculous each passing game. I hope people stop taking Helene's articles as gospel and recognize her for the hack writer that she is.

 

[Actual Thought*]

That goal last night was pretty impressive. Fast, decisive, accurate!

 

[Flowah]

This article is becoming more and more ridiculous each passing game. I hope people stop taking Helene's articles as gospel and recognize her for the hack writer that she is.

In what way is it ridiculous? It's a very true statement. Tatar has a lot of value in a trade.

 

[ap3x]

That goal last night was pretty impressive. Fast, decisive, accurate!

Aye. Moments when his skills shine through. Beautiful play and great set-up by E.

 

[Vladdy84]

I watched NHL on the Fly for bit last night. Tatar has more goals than golden boy Zach Parise.

 

[detredWINgs]

I watched NHL on the Fly for bit last night. Tatar has more goals than golden boy Zach Parise.

He has as many or more goals than like 97% of the league, statistically speaking. He's T-13th. Working hard to improve his trade value he is.

 

[DanZ]

I would be very disappointed if we traded Tatar. He's been consistently more dangerous than Nyquist.

 

[ap3x]

"Consistently"? Measured by which timeline? Not to mention that Gus adapts his play and increases his assists.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Aye. Moments when his skills shine through. Beautiful play and great set-up by E.

Yeah, no goalie in the league stands a chance with that kind of execution. Nasty!

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Tatar has been the more effective player so far this year to me. He has more even strength points than Nyquist despite playing more than a minute less per game at even strength. Tatar continues to be a Corsi monster while Nyquist is a bit disappointing in that measurement. Nyquist has played against tougher competition though. But still, they can only play against whoever there on the ice against and Tatar has been more efficient when he's on the ice so far.

Nyquist has more points on the PP, but again, he gets more time on the PP and has been on the 1st unit much more often. I have to believe that Tatar would make up the margin if he played more and on the 1st unit.

It's a good problem to have though in asking who's been better. They've both been very good.


Defensively is where Tats is really improving in my mind. He's starting to force more turnovers with his pressure and he's become a bit less risky with the puck on his stick. He looks more comfortable in his own zone as well, but it's for the best if he continues to spend most of his time in the o-zone. He's an exciting player obviously and it's really exciting watching his game develop in front of our eyes.

 

[Mijatovic]

If Nyquist looked like he did last year when he drove scoring, then I would be excited about it. His numbers might be similar to last but I think hes slumped a fair bit.

 

[Claypool]

If Nyquist looked like he did last year when he drove scoring, then I would be excited about it. His numbers might be similar to last but I think hes slumped a fair bit.

Nyquist has been fine. He can't sneak up on teams again this year. They don't underestimate his speed and are aware of him on the ice. I think playing a lot of the year with Franzen is brining his point production down. If he had played with Tatar and Sheahan all season I bet he'd have another 5-10 points.

 

[Mijatovic]

Not so much the point production, but just how last year he was making goals happen and taking on defenders. Basically because he had to. I havent seen that as much this year.

 

[Xvash2]

Nyquist has been fine. He can't sneak up on teams again this year. They don't underestimate his speed and are aware of him on the ice. I think playing a lot of the year with Franzen is brining his point production down. If he had played with Tatar and Sheahan all season I bet he'd have another 5-10 points.

Nyquist is going to the high scoring areas less than when he was on his torrid streak. The Wings as a whole have been really shut out of the slot the last 15 games or so and that is really hurting their goalscoring numbers.

 

[ap3x]

Gus is fine. Honestly, who expected another streak like last season? As he isn't getting the same space anymore, it's obvious that he had to adapt his play. And he's doing that pretty good,
considering some beauties that he serves. But execution of his linemen could be better. I don't worry about him at all. Just look at his effectivity on PP.

What concerns Tatar, he really made the next step. As mentioned above, better defensively and some great plays offensively. But that's not to say that he can't improve anymore.
Just lean back and enjoy his development throughout the season, and hopefully in the playoffs.

 

[SoupGuru]

I think Nyquist has the more rounded game of the two. Tatar is pretty one dimensional although he is becoming more and more useful in other areas.

The thing about Nyquist though, is that to me he looks unmotivated at times. He just disappears for a couple of games. Which isn't bad since he'll pick up a goal or two on the PP anyway. You'll see him shy away from the tough areas or peel away from the play instead of push it. I dunno... I'm not trying to knock the guy. I think he's a good player and will be a great player. I just wish I noticed him every game.

Tatar can be streaky too but it's never from lack of motivation.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

Not so much the point production, but just how last year he was making goals happen and taking on defenders. Basically because he had to. I havent seen that as much this year.

I think this can still be tied back to defenders being more aware of him now and how they're giving him less time and space to shoot. I remember last year how Gus could get d men to bite hard on a little deke/juke in the offensive zone to give him time for a good shot attempt and I haven't seen much of that this season, they seem to stick with him more.

 

[Kronwalled55]

I've been having a change of heart about Tatar. I was more willing to use him as trade bait in the past, but honestly we need someone who thinks shoot first on this team. We need MORE people like that. Zetterberg used to pepper goaltenders with shots, but doesn't shoot nearly as much anymore. Datsyuk has never been one to think shoot first either. Nyquist shoots more when his confidence is up, but most of the time thinks pass unless someone sets him up nicely. You need players like Tatar, especially ones that cash in on opportunities as well as he does.

He's toned down the selfishness too, which certainly helps.

 

[RedWingzz]

Is anyone still in favor of trading this guy for Keith Yandle?

 

[Frk It]

Is anyone still in favor of trading this guy for Keith Yandle?

For Keith Yandle? Yeah, I probably would. As much as it would suck. Yandle is a thoroughbred offensive defenseman. Would be like adding Rafalski.