Tomas Jurco (Re-signed to two year deal, post #301)

[SoupGuru]

I think the NHL game is still a little too fast for him. He'll catch up, though.

 

[Gyldenlove]

Lets compare Nyquist's first 40 NHL games over the first 2 seasons to Jurco's first 47 over his first 2 seasons (I am only counting regular season). (For reference, Jurco was a full year younger than Nyquist when they got their respective debuts in the NHL).

Nyquist PPG: 0.33
Jurco PPG: 0.36

Nyquist GPG: 0.10
Jurco GPG: 0.17

Jurco is outperforming Nyquist comparatively, despite being a full year younger. Jurco is a complete mulligan this year, for all purposes he should be considered a rookie and not relied on to score points. What really matters is a year or two from now, that is when he has to translate into a 50+ point scorer to live up to his skill.

 

[jaster]

He's playing too safe, which isn't exciting for some for a guy of his skill level. He's not going to dangle people for fear of turning the puck over. That's not how you win points with Babcock. I mean, it'd be nice if he was scoring, but he's playing a good 200-foot game right now. He just needs to be more confident offensively and the points will come. I'm not worried.

Until he gets that confidence and creates more scoring chances, I'm not sure you can call it a 200-foot game.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He's playing too safe, which isn't exciting for some for a guy of his skill level. He's not going to dangle people for fear of turning the puck over. That's not how you win points with Babcock. I mean, it'd be nice if he was scoring, but he's playing a good 200-foot game right now. He just needs to be more confident offensively and the points will come. I'm not worried.

While he has nice hands, it's very difficult to dangle players in the NHL so I agree he's doing the right thing by playing a simpler game. Datsyuk needs to take Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco to school and show them how the hell he manages to be so good 1-on-1.

 

[Frk It]

While he has nice hands, it's very difficult to dangle players in the NHL so I agree he's doing the right thing by playing a simpler game. Datsyuk needs to take Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco to school and show them how the hell he manages to be so good 1-on-1.

Unfortunately, you can't really teach what Datsyuk does.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Unfortunately, you can't really teach what Datsyuk does.

Maybe if they bring in a translator tho. Pavel's got those 1-on-1 moves down to an artform. Gotta be a way to pass some of that on.

 

[TatarTangle]

Maybe if they bring in a translator tho. Pavel's got those 1-on-1 moves down to an artform. Gotta be a way to pass some of that on.

There is, he has to have another child, a boy.

 

[Flowah]

Unfortunately, you can't really teach what Datsyuk does.

He thinks the game completely different from everyone else. Other players in the league have fantastic hands. Like Kane for instance. But Datsyuk is quite unique in what he does and how he thinks.

Nyquist doesn't have hands. He has speed and incredible instincts. I haven't really seen him turn people inside out like Datsyuk can. Tatar has shown glimpses of it but obviously is nowhere close to Datsyuk level and probably won't ever get there. Jurco's game right now is so simple I do have to wonder if he'll ever make the transition. I'm leaning towards that he will eventually but who knows.

Datsyuk is unique. He just is. That slippery Russian with hands of silk and sky high hockey IQ. A perfect combo. The only chance is cloning.

 

[jaster]

Lets compare Nyquist's first 40 NHL games over the first 2 seasons to Jurco's first 47 over his first 2 seasons (I am only counting regular season). (For reference, Jurco was a full year younger than Nyquist when they got their respective debuts in the NHL).

Nyquist PPG: 0.33
Jurco PPG: 0.36

Nyquist GPG: 0.10
Jurco GPG: 0.17

Jurco is outperforming Nyquist comparatively, despite being a full year younger. Jurco is a complete mulligan this year, for all purposes he should be considered a rookie and not relied on to score points. What really matters is a year or two from now, that is when he has to translate into a 50+ point scorer to live up to his skill.

Comparing the two in that manner doesn't mean a whole heckuva lot. Nyquist managed to "break through." He figured out how to adjust, offensively, to the NHL. He developed, to a new level, as an NHLer. But that does not mean that Jurco will. We all hope he will, and it's still very likely, given his age, but Nyquist doing it does not change the likelihood of Jurco doing it.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He thinks the game completely different from everyone else. Other players in the league have fantastic hands. Like Kane for instance. But Datsyuk is quite unique in what he does and how he thinks.

Nyquist doesn't have hands. He has speed and incredible instincts. I haven't really seen him turn people inside out like Datsyuk can. Tatar has shown glimpses of it but obviously is nowhere close to Datsyuk level and probably won't ever get there. Jurco's game right now is so simple I do have to wonder if he'll ever make the transition. I'm leaning towards that he will eventually but who knows.

Datsyuk is unique. He just is. That slippery Russian with hands of silk and sky high hockey IQ. A perfect combo. The only chance is cloning.

Off the top of my head and yes some of it was speed Nyquist has absolutely inside outed both Chara and Seabrook in his young career. Nyquist has really good hands, more often than not he does bank on his speed moves, but he handles the puck well at an incredible rate of speed and some of those moves that look easy are difficult as hell at the speeds he does them at.

Tatar is a little better at stickhandling in a phone booth, but still turns over the puck with frequency in those settings. Nyquist prefers to use his speed and incredible acceleration to create space, but he does a great job of wrong footing guys and often puts the puck out there to pull it in another direction and embarrass guys.

Datsyuk is unique in terms of how frequently the defense thinks the puck is a little bit available and it isn't, even though they all know this human nature eventually gets them to gamble or come in closer than they should. I am fairly certain it cannot be taught, but both Tatar and Nyquist have the ability to do it. Jurco doesn't do it as much because of his body type. It is easier to get a piece of him in those settings, he can do it but much like other guys his size even if you think of star players like Hossa and Hall, they don't dabble in it often and a part of it is they are larger targets and at the NHL level it makes inviting pressure in to stick handle around people a bigger task.

Jurco is learning to use his frame well, I expect a little more stickhandling to enter his game over the following years, but it will never be as substantial as the smaller players and that is the nature of the target his body presents defenders.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah was going to respond to the comment saying "Nyquist doesn't have hands" and say that's not exactly true. TZE pretty much read my mind though.

When Nyquist was in the AHL I saw him try more flashy dangles going 1 on 1 with guys, but now he seems to try to just catch you flat footed and put on the jets.

Other guys have maybe nicer moves, but don't think you can say he doesn't have hands.

 

[Henkka]

Glorious chance for Jurco again but couldn't bury it. helm's passing was just too obvious to read for Anderson.

The goals will come.

 

[ap3x]

He needs to score just to grow in confidence. Once he did it, the others will follow. I'll cross my fingers tonight, do it, Jurco.

 

[Gyldenlove]

Comparing the two in that manner doesn't mean a whole heckuva lot. Nyquist managed to "break through." He figured out how to adjust, offensively, to the NHL. He developed, to a new level, as an NHLer. But that does not mean that Jurco will. We all hope he will, and it's still very likely, given his age, but Nyquist doing it does not change the likelihood of Jurco doing it.

You have to have a measuring stick to do any kind of meaningful evaluation. To evaluate Jurco a baseline needs to be established, otherwise you might as well write his evaluating using words line bingly bongly boo and wip-wop-woo.

Nyquist is a player who as you state, "broke through" but there was a time before his "break through" and clearly his play during that period was good enough to earn him time to break through. So using Nyquist as a baseline shows how well a player has to play to earn a 3rd year in the league and a chance to break though. Clearly Jurco is performing well enough compared to how Nyquist did and so has earned a free pass this season.

 

[Winger98]

Nyquist's baseline shows he was sent back to GR after each of those stints and had two long stretches there averaging over a ppg. Want Jurco to follow Nyquist's model, he should be in GR and showing he can be productive. Then he still needs to start next season in GR.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

Nyquist's baseline shows he was sent back to GR after each of those stints and had two long stretches there averaging over a ppg. Want Jurco to follow Nyquist's model, he should be in GR and showing he can be productive. Then he still needs to start next season in GR.

IIRC he can't do that cause his waiver exemption runs out after this season.

 

[detredWINgs]

Nyquist's baseline shows he was sent back to GR after each of those stints and had two long stretches there averaging over a ppg. Want Jurco to follow Nyquist's model, he should be in GR and showing he can be productive. Then he still needs to start next season in GR.

What? No two players are the same. Jurco doesn't need to start next year as a nearly 23 year old in Grand Rapids just because it worked for Nyquist. That's absurd. Jurco is 21 and already has a half a season of solid NHL hockey under his belt. And while he hasn't been good this year, he is sure as hell strong enough and defensively responsible enough to compete here. I have no problem with a stint in Grand Rapids, but a full-on calendar year of AHL hockey is just silly. IMO, it crosses the line from being a move to build some confidence in himself into the type of banishment that causes players to get restless with their demotions.

 

[Winger98]

IIRC he can't do that cause his waiver exemption runs out after this season.

What? No two players are the same. Jurco doesn't need to start next year as a nearly 23 year old in Grand Rapids just because it worked for Nyquist. That's absurd. Jurco is 21 and already has a half a season of solid NHL hockey under his belt. And while he hasn't been good this year, he is sure as hell strong enough and defensively responsible enough to compete here. I have no problem with a stint in Grand Rapids, but a full-on calendar year of AHL hockey is just silly. IMO, it crosses the line from being a move to build some confidence in himself into the type of banishment that causes players to get restless with their demotions.

It was in response to someone using Nyquist as a comparison, pointing out how Nyquist was developed around that forty game stint mainly through longer stays in GR. He'd be up for 20 games or so, but play 50+ in GR where he dominated. The bit about starting next year there was, admittedly, poking the bear a bit.

Personally, I'm all for sending him down and letting him find his scoring touch getting first line minutes with the onus to score. It's nice and all that he's hustling with the wings, working hard, etc., but he's better than that and he seems to have lost his game a bit.

Though I've also never been as high on Jurco as others. I still want to see that last years PPG pace in GR wasn't just a fluke.

 

[jaster]

You have to have a measuring stick to do any kind of meaningful evaluation. To evaluate Jurco a baseline needs to be established, otherwise you might as well write his evaluating using words line bingly bongly boo and wip-wop-woo.

Nyquist is a player who as you state, "broke through" but there was a time before his "break through" and clearly his play during that period was good enough to earn him time to break through. So using Nyquist as a baseline shows how well a player has to play to earn a 3rd year in the league and a chance to break though. Clearly Jurco is performing well enough compared to how Nyquist did and so has earned a free pass this season.

In that sense, yes, it's one way to demonstrate that the Wings should stick with Jurco. But I'm not sure I need to look at Nyquist to decide that; Jurco's combo of youth and tools are plenty to show he should be given ample time

 

[Top Shelfer]

Not even turned 22 and some writing him off lol.
Nyquist went to college, had years to dominate against inferior talent.

 

[InjuredChoker]

send him down or let him play.

this does nothing for his development.

 

[Seedling]

I wondering if Detroit is too structured for Jurco...

Outsider looking in POV.

Hudler, Filppula are two good examples of guys the Wings had who did very well in the Wings system but seem to have been limited as they are now the key guys on their respective teams for driving offense. Say what you will about them but they are putting up more points on the teams they are on now due to being higher up on the depth chart for those teams.

The way I have always seen Detroit is that every player fills a very specific role. I think, from what I have been able to watch this year, Jurco is basically being put into the same role those two used to be in. I think he will do fine but remember this is really his first full year in the NHL so far. He's a fine player but he's likely experiencing a very steep learning curve but who better to teach him than Babcock and the vets on the Wings? I'd suggest nobody.

Just my opinion but I think you see a lot of skilled players come in and look good right away and then tail off a bit while they learn a more complete game. I think you have a gem in Jurco and he's simply in a learning phase for the time being.

 

[SirloinUB]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2014/11/09/detroit-red-wings-tomas-jurco/18771945/

"Babs has sat him out the last couple games," Holland said. "I'm going to monitor the situation close.

"We'll have a conversation over the next couple days. Certainly, a guy like Jurco, we want to be playing. If the plan is to get him back into the lineup next week, we'll have a good week of practice. I think if the plan is that other people are sort of ahead of him right now, we've gotta get him playing."

Sounds like the cloud of uncertainty surronding Jurco should be resolved this week.

 

[ap3x]

They're better off doing so. Just as InjuredChoker said, send him down or let him play. We can't afford us to bench him and risk his further development.

 

[Henkka]

Would be perfect just to send him down and help with Griffins struggles.