Value of: Tomas Hertl & Sharks

[wintersej]

Not to be sarcastic but I think thats pretty obvious. Dont know whos buying into Debrusk being 10x better than he was just because hes being deployed with the best now

I don’t think anyone is arguing he is a 70 goal player like he has been since his promotion. Just a guy who can give you 20-25 goals without PP time like he has paced for in all his seasons less during the lockdown. Even this current hot streak is just making up for a bad shooting percentage streak, his career shooting percentage is 12.4 and it’s 12.8 this season after this heater.

 

[wintersej]

I would think any team that wants a forward should. Hes easily the best on the market, so id expect Colorado, Toronto, Florida, and Calgary to all make a solid push.

Ok but all those teams would be looking at a straight rental and I assume would pay accordingly. Who is in the hunt AND looking to re-up?

 

[HuGort]

Not to be sarcastic but I think thats pretty obvious. Dont know whos buying into Debrusk being 10x better than he was just because hes being deployed with the best now

Maybe Debrusk, a first and a solid prospect

 

[Cogburn]

Not that the Canucks have any way to actually make a trade like this, but what about an OEL/Garland kind of deal for Hertl and Burns?

The value would be Klimovich (RW, last year's second round pick, top six prospect), Rathbone (LHD puck mover, killing it in the minors and trapped behind Hughes and OEL) and our first round pick, Myers as an offset for Burns' longer and higher cap hit, and Dickinson and Poolman as cap dumps? Two RHD, a C, and really the only futures we have to offer of any significance.

Again, no chance we move a pick, or futures, but let's imagine we have everything else worked out on the Canucks side to pretend to be contenders.

If it doesn't work for the Sharks, no problems, just curious and wanted to poke my nose into the thread.

 

[Gecklund]

Not that the Canucks have any way to actually make a trade like this, but what about an OEL/Garland kind of deal for Hertl and Burns?

The value would be Klimovich (RW, last year's second round pick, top six prospect), Rathbone (LHD puck mover, killing it in the minors and trapped behind Hughes and OEL) and our first round pick, Myers as an offset for Burns' longer and higher cap hit, and Dickinson and Poolman as cap dumps? Two RHD, a C, and really the only futures we have to offer of any significance.

Again, no chance we move a pick, or futures, but let's imagine we have everything else worked out on the Canucks side to pretend to be contenders.

If it doesn't work for the Sharks, no problems, just curious and wanted to poke my nose into the thread.

Contract situations kind of negate this but not fully but Hertl is a better player than Garland and Burns is better than OEL. Obviously there are other factors like age and contracts but I just think we could get more for them individually. Both Klimovich and Rathbone are good but both players are where our prospect pool is the deepest. The first is obviously of interest though. It just doesn’t fully make sense for us to make that deal. I would be open to a trade for Dickinson though depending on price.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Not that the Canucks have any way to actually make a trade like this, but what about an OEL/Garland kind of deal for Hertl and Burns?

The value would be Klimovich (RW, last year's second round pick, top six prospect), Rathbone (LHD puck mover, killing it in the minors and trapped behind Hughes and OEL) and our first round pick, Myers as an offset for Burns' longer and higher cap hit, and Dickinson and Poolman as cap dumps? Two RHD, a C, and really the only futures we have to offer of any significance.

Again, no chance we move a pick, or futures, but let's imagine we have everything else worked out on the Canucks side to pretend to be contenders.

If it doesn't work for the Sharks, no problems, just curious and wanted to poke my nose into the thread.

I don’t know that the futures being offered is enough to offset that the Sharks are taking on three mil more next season especially in spots where they have too many bodies to begin with. Rathbone and the 1st are solid but not terribly valuable here considering everything else involved.

 

[Cogburn]

Contract situations kind of negate this but not fully but Hertl is a better player than Garland and Burns is better than OEL. Obviously there are other factors like age and contracts but I just think we could get more for them individually. Both Klimovich and Rathbone are good but both players are where our prospect pool is the deepest. The first is obviously of interest though. It just doesn’t fully make sense for us to make that deal. I would be open to a trade for Dickinson though depending on price.

No worries if it doesn't fit, we have a lot of the same needs.

What's the ask on Dickinson though?

 

[Cogburn]

I don’t know that the futures being offered is enough to offset that the Sharks are taking on three mil more next season especially in spots where they have too many bodies to begin with. Rathbone and the 1st are solid but not terribly valuable here considering everything else involved.

Not a problem, just a mental exercise here. Klimovich is a sleeper prospect, I expect him to be improving a great deal, but San Jose has a lot of solid wingers coming up. I had read RHD was a need for San Jose, and though Poolman could be filler, or even bought out, and Myers would be a very poor mans Burns stand in. So more spreading the cap hits of Hertl and Burns around for a little bit more flexibility. If the futures aren't enough though, I totally understand...it's just all we've got.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Not a problem, just a mental exercise here. Klimovich is a sleeper prospect, I expect him to be improving a great deal, but San Jose has a lot of solid wingers coming up. I had read RHD was a need for San Jose, and though Poolman could be filler, or even bought out, and Myers would be a very poor mans Burns stand in. So more spreading the cap hits of Hertl and Burns around for a little bit more flexibility. If the futures aren't enough though, I totally understand...it's just all we've got.

No worries. I think something could be there but it’s either less cap coming back or more positive value assets coming back.

 

[Gecklund]

No worries if it doesn't fit, we have a lot of the same needs.

What's the ask on Dickinson though?

I probably wouldn’t give up much. Maybe we could work out a Labanc for Dickinson trade.

Not a problem, just a mental exercise here. Klimovich is a sleeper prospect, I expect him to be improving a great deal, but San Jose has a lot of solid wingers coming up. I had read RHD was a need for San Jose, and though Poolman could be filler, or even bought out, and Myers would be a very poor mans Burns stand in. So more spreading the cap hits of Hertl and Burns around for a little bit more flexibility. If the futures aren't enough though, I totally understand...it's just all we've got.

RD is definitely a need but more so in the prospect pool than actual NHL. We have Burns and EK who currently take up the top 2 spots and Merkley who looks ready and should be in the last spot as well as Meloche who hasn’t looked out of place.

 

[Cogburn]

No worries. I think something could be there but it’s either less cap coming back or more positive value assets coming back.

I'm not deadset on all the cap pieces being included, and if we keep the others, I'd be alright with Hamonic or Pearson being included instead of Myers. If that helps at all.

Again, absolutely hypothetically.

 

[Cogburn]

I probably wouldn’t give up much. Maybe we could work out a Labanc for Dickinson trade.

RD is definitely a need but more so in the prospect pool than actual NHL. We have Burns and EK who currently take up the top 2 spots and Merkley who looks ready and should be in the last spot as well as Meloche who hasn’t looked out of place.

The added cap hit and Dickinson's ability to play C makes that not really fit with what we need, if we were to move Dickinson. Cap space or a more offensively capable C would be what we would be looking for.

That's what I get for skimming then, I just saw RD and I guess I didn't register context. And I thought Karlsson was a LHD for some reason. I guess I need to pay a little bit more attention to detail.

 

[Mr Positive]

I'd have to think that he is a deadline trade, or he re-signs at the deadline

They cannot risk him walking for nothing. Waiting until the summer and trading his rights, for the off chance you could squeeze more for a sign-and-trade, would probably fail.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I'd have to think that he is a deadline trade, or he re-signs at the deadline

They cannot risk him walking for nothing. Waiting until the summer and trading his rights, for the off chance you could squeeze more for a sign-and-trade, would probably fail.

Our front office is absolutely delusional and refuse to admit that they're nowhere close to a playoff berth. They know they're stuck in a terrible cap situation and will continue to fall victim to sunk cost.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

We're gonna re sign Hertl and trade Meier before the deadline. I can see it coming already...

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I agree a first is too much. My first thought in terms of trade package with DET is Zadina+Veleno+2nd but that seems risky for us.

That would be a rental price though, right?

I'd love to add Hertl, as a UFA though.

Wouldn't want to set back the build by having to pony up the required assets that he is worth in a trade.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm not deadset on all the cap pieces being included, and if we keep the others, I'd be alright with Hamonic or Pearson being included instead of Myers. If that helps at all.

Again, absolutely hypothetically.

I think if you swapped Myers with Dickinson, it seems more plausible. I think we'd be looking at Hertl and Burns for Dickinson, Poolman, Klimovich, Rathbone, and a 1st, yeah?

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

I think Detroit being a real wild card to acquire Hertl would return the best package. Their 1st in 2023 is what id want though.

To Detroit: Hertl, Coe
To SJ: 1st in 2023, Veleno, Gustav Lindström

This is so bad I literally fell off my seat in awe. I can't believe a Sharks fan posted this. That is one of the worst mock trades I've ever seen.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

This is so bad I literally fell off my seat in awe. I can't believe a Sharks fan posted this. That is one of the worst mock trades I've ever seen.

Well ya know, I'm only here to leave folks like you in awe. Mission accomplished.

 

[Cogburn]

I think if you swapped Myers with Dickinson, it seems more plausible. I think we'd be looking at Hertl and Burns for Dickinson, Poolman, Klimovich, Rathbone, and a 1st, yeah?

Value wise? I think we have something, which again I hope we wouldn't be in the market to do, but if it happened, I could live with. The salary cap would require us to move someone in another deal, as Dickinson and Poolman offset Hertl's contract and don't even touch Burns'.

I had Dickinson in as part of the original package, so in the spirit of giving the Sharks first crack at the future waiver wire or forced trade, would Pearson, Hamonic or the LTIR contract of Ferland be of any value, as either a not cost inclusion or a separate deal? Or possibly Motte and a slightly used Halak?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Value wise? I think we have something, which again I hope we wouldn't be in the market to do, but if it happened, I could live with. The salary cap would require us to move someone in another deal, as Dickinson and Poolman offset Hertl's contract and don't even touch Burns'.

I had Dickinson in as part of the original package, so in the spirit of giving the Sharks first crack at the future waiver wire or forced trade, would Pearson, Hamonic or the LTIR contract of Ferland be of any value, as either a not cost inclusion or a separate deal? Or possibly Motte and a slightly used Halak?

If other moves are made or we're paid to do so, I can see the Sharks having interest in those players but not as of now.

 

[Cogburn]

If other moves are made or we're paid to do so, I can see the Sharks having interest in those players but not as of now.

Fair enough. None, except Ferland really (who doesn't count towards the cap) is really overpaid for their recent contributions, so I'm sure we could work something else out elsewhere.

 

[Chips]

He's my favorite player, and one of the few reasons the Sharks are tolerable to watch, but the org would be wise to let him go. I also think they need to look at moving Meier. If you move those two before next year, you're probably looking at a bottom 5 pick in a really good draft.

On the other hand, you need some quality vets in the roster to bring guys along. Hertl is the perfect guy to insulate someone like Eklund. I'm not sure that Eklund-Couture-Dahlen, Balcers-UFA?-Labanc is going to result in anything other than getting shelled. Of Equal importance there is no size, and none coming. Need to prevent Eklund from getting bullied. Not that Meier (or especially Hertl) are tough, but their size would help insulate the small prospects.

The Sharks seem to think the fans won't tolerate a rebuild/tank, but it's happening anyway. May as well embrace it, and look to shorten it. A lot has actually gone okay this year. No one projected Meier as an elite winger, Karlsson (when healthy) back to #1 D level, Reimer ended up a legit starter, decent pick ups that were low cost in Barbanov, Dahlen, Balcers, and Bonino, Ferraro improved, and Middleton ended up being surprisingly solid.

More importantly, I can't see things possibly going 'more' right next year particularly with 42% of the cap (EK, Burns, Vlasic, Couture) likely to get progressively worse.

Even with Hertl, Barbanov, and Meier returning, I think the Sharks are likely bottom 5-7 next year.

One other thing, I expect is feeling down because he knows it's time to move on.

Blow it up.

I assumed the management was less worried about how fans would take it so much as Karlsson and their longer serving stars. Kinda like the Hawks questionably making win-now moves too early


Karlsson spoke last year upset it seemed the Sharks seemed to consider rebuilding, or something like that maybe he was responding to a question about rebuilding; same thing happened further back with Toews or Kane upset at certain rebuild moves the GM had made and or that they (the Hawks core few guys) weren’t being considered/consulted

 

[HuGort]

What would Sharks want from Montreal for Hertl? Provided we can talk contract to him first.

Dvorak and Flames first?

Or option to switch first picks with us?

 

[themelkman]

What would Sharks want from Montreal for Hertl? Provided we can talk contract to him first.

Dvorak and Flames first?

Or option to switch first picks with us?

Id do the switch firsts if you win the lottery! Otherwise no, we want a first and a top prospect, which is way more likely from a desperate good team.
I dont see Montreal as a fit at all, they are years from needing a Hertl