Confirmed with Link: Tomas Hertl 17% retained, 2025 3rd, 2027 3rd to Vegas for C David Edstrom, 2025 1st

[Alaskanice]

Right. My point was that it sounds like he only talked to Vegas about trading Hertl.

Clarity is a beautiful thing.

 

[Jargon]

Right. My point was that it sounds like he only talked to Vegas about trading Hertl.

in the interview after the deadline he says they did and this was the best offer.

 

[pappaf2]

Grier has a plan since day 1, just some fans don't agree with his plan. However, I sense that GMMG is here to do the dirty work "REBUILD" but won't have a chance to complete the REBUILD because of these fair weather sharks fans are complaining. Looking at EDM, they have several GM since selected Conor Mcdavid by GM Peter Chiarelli in 2015, since then they have hired 2 other GMs and still have not won the Stanley Cup. I honestly think Grier is the right person to guide the Sharks but will the impatience Sharks fans and the Owner allow him to finish?

I think the biggest difference is the sharks fan base is not rabid like a Canadian teams fan base. Fans like that can force change, I just don’t know if the average San Jose fans care enough to be able to force Hasso to can MGGM if they don’t like the way things are going.

 

[cheechoo]

I think the biggest difference is the sharks fan base is not rabid like a Canadian teams fan base. Fans like that can force change, I just don’t know if the average San Jose fans care enough to be able to force Hasso to can MGGM if they don’t like the way things are going.

Would rather suffer these three extra years or whatever to build a foundation sustainable enough for a 10+ year run of exciting hockey and a championship shot.

There are some teams that are constantly rushing the process and refusing to accept what's in front of them. You can rot in purgatory forever. Feels like Minnesota and Calgary have been perennial 6th-10th place pretenders for my entire lifespan.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

I think the biggest difference is the sharks fan base is not rabid like a Canadian teams fan base. Fans like that can force change, I just don’t know if the average San Jose fans care enough to be able to force Hasso to can MGGM if they don’t like the way things are going.

What are the fans gonna do, not go to the games they’re already not going to?

 

[TheBeard]

Would rather suffer these three extra years or whatever to build a foundation sustainable enough for a 10+ year run of exciting hockey and a championship shot.

There are some teams that are constantly rushing the process and refusing to accept what's in front of them. You can rot in purgatory forever. Feels like Minnesota and Calgary have been perennial 6th-10th place pretenders for my entire lifespan.

There's no right or wrong way to rebuild. The only thing you need is luck and a good scouting department. Edmonton had three first overalls that disappointed and did nothing, then had a fourth overall and he's basically almost single-handedly turned that team into a perennial contender. Vegas, on the other hand, hasn't developed a single player, instead trading their picks and kids for already established NHL talent. All of our kids like Musty, Smith etc have massive trade value if we wanted to go that route.

What are the fans gonna do, not go to the games they’re already not going to?

"I'M GONNA SIT ON MY COUCH EVEN HARDER!!"

 

[timorous me]

in the interview after the deadline he says they did and this was the best offer.

I know some people like to treat Grier like he's some newbie rube who doesn't know how to do the job, but even with his limited prior experience, it should be noted that he's got some people around him who do have a lot of experience, and I don't think they're all collectively stupid enough to make a trade like this without knowing how Hertl and his contract are perceived around the league and if there's any other actual interest in trading for him (sans like 40% retention).

 

[TheBeard]

I know some people like to treat Grier like he's some newbie rube who doesn't know how to do the job, but even with his limited prior experience, it should be noted that he's got some people around him who do have a lot of experience, and I don't think they're all collectively stupid enough to make a trade like this without knowing how Hertl and his contract are perceived around the league and if there's any other actual interest in trading for him (sans like 40% retention).

Doug Wilson had a lot of people around him with a lot of experience as well.

 

[timorous me]

Doug Wilson had a lot of people around him with a lot of experience as well.

Sure--and he mostly did a good job for many years. But in that case I feel like that group became too insular and like in many fields, be it business or politics or sports teams, if a core group is in charge for too long, they can very easily lose a sense of perspective.

It certainly can be avoided to some extent, but that likely requires bringing in new people with different ways of looking at things--people from outside the organization, analytics people, etc. Wilson didn't really do that. It's telling that the most he did in that regard, really, seems to have been putting his inexperienced son in a major role!

 

[LilLeeroy]

Sure--and he mostly did a good job for many years. But in that case I feel like that group became too insular and like in many fields, be it business or politics or sports teams, if a core group is in charge for too long, they can very easily lose a sense of perspective.

It certainly can be avoided to some extent, but that likely requires bringing in new people with different ways of looking at things--people from outside the organization, analytics people, etc. Wilson didn't really do that. It's telling that the most he did in that regard, really, seems to have been putting his inexperienced son in a major role!

The biggest red flag was definitely the promotions for said incompetent son after such a short time. Are you really telling me Doug Wilson Jr. was such a genius he deserved to be promoted basically every year until he was the head of scouting for the entire organization?

I just feel like that's just not something you do if you have even the slightest amount of care for the job you're doing.

 

[hohosaregood]

Doug Wilson had a lot of people around him with a lot of experience as well.

I'm gonna argue that he didn't. He had mostly the same group of guys around for 15+ years who had not kept up with the industry. It's experience but it was such outdated experience that it was mostly irrelevant to how FOs need to be run in the 2020s

 

[TheBeard]

I'm gonna argue that he didn't. He had mostly the same group of guys around for 15+ years who had not kept up with the industry. It's experience but it was such outdated experience that it was mostly irrelevant to how FOs need to be run in the 2020s

My point is, and you've argued it accurately, is that being surrounded by experience isn't always a good thing. I don't mind Mike doing his own thing with a fresh perspective. Like anything in life, there needs to be a balance between both.

 

[DG93]

there's paying a price and there's losing *everything*
this team might as well have folded and moved to another city

They're not moving anywhere. Arizona plays in a college stadium, and Florida averaged like 5,000 fans per game for a decade before Zito took over. That's how rebuild work, unfortunately. Just gotta be patient and then reap the rewards (if done right, so far Grier is on track).

 

[TheBeard]

They're not moving anywhere. Arizona plays in a college stadium, and Florida averaged like 5,000 fans per game for a decade before Zito took over. That's how rebuild work, unfortunately. Just gotta be patient and then reap the rewards (if done right, so far Grier is on track).

That is untrue regarding Florida. Florida Panthers yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

 

[DG93]

That is untrue regarding Florida. Florida Panthers yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

Sorry, I didn't mean literally. But if you compare the #s between them and the Sharks 2021-2024 (once it became apparent the rebuild was on), those 2013-2022 (other than 2015-2016) Florida #s are pretty similar

 

[Barrie22]

Sorry, I didn't mean literally. But if you compare the #s between them and the Sharks 2021-2024 (once it became apparent the rebuild was on), those 2013-2022 (other than 2015-2016) Florida #s are pretty similar

Minus the roughly 2000+ difference per night.

The Sharks outside of the outlier that is the coyotes situation, is dead last in attendance. And it really isn't that close between the Sharks and the 2nd worst.

 

[TheBeard]

Sorry, I didn't mean literally. But if you compare the #s between them and the Sharks 2021-2024 (once it became apparent the rebuild was on), those 2013-2022 (other than 2015-2016) Florida #s are pretty similar

My biggest concern is luring decent free agents to come here even when we're on the upswing. Players are making it clear that they'd rather play in tax-free environments, which is why Florida was able to bring in guys like Verhaegue and Bob even during low times.

 

[LilLeeroy]

My biggest concern is luring decent free agents to come here even when we're on the upswing. Players are making it clear that they'd rather play in tax-free environments, which is why Florida was able to bring in guys like Verhaegue and Bob even during low times.

Golden State Warriors managed to do ok even with the higher taxes.

 

[DG93]

My biggest concern is luring decent free agents to come here even when we're on the upswing. Players are making it clear that they'd rather play in tax-free environments, which is why Florida was able to bring in guys like Verhaegue and Bob even during low times.

That's a legit concern, but the Sharks weren't able to bring in FAs even during their peak years. I think that emphasizes the importance of building a very good (and deep) prospect pool that you can use to trade for other pieces when the time comes in 3 years or whanot.

I bet they can get a few FAs by overpaying too since their young core will be on the cheaper side, and the cap sheet will look great after 2024-2025 when they only have 1-2 years of Couture (could retire), Vlasic (possible buyout this summer, pretty solid buyout structure), and Ferraro (may be traded if he isn't selected as the next captain) left + the dead money from Karlsson, Hertl, and Jones.

 

[TheBeard]

Golden State Warriors managed to do ok even with the higher taxes.

Being a winning franchise helps.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Being a winning franchise helps.

I mean that's exactly the point? The Warriors were the laughingstock of the league along with the Clippers for decades. Then they got young exciting talent and a system that is fun to play in and suddenly they are a free agent destination and manage to land arguably the biggest free agent ever.

 

[TheBeard]

I mean that's exactly the point? The Warriors were the laughingstock of the league along with the Clippers for decades. Then they got young exciting talent and a system that is fun to play in and suddenly they are a free agent destination and manage to land arguably the biggest free agent ever.

We’ll having the young exciting talent is one thing but they have to show they belong before any of that happens

Im also not sure we have an equivalent to Steph Curry on this roster

 

[LilLeeroy]

We’ll having the young exciting talent is one thing but they have to show they belong before any of that happens

Im also not sure we have an equivalent to Steph Curry on this roster

You don't think it's likely that Bordeleau becomes our Steph Curry?

But yeah that is part comes down to luck.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Both of those teams were objectively terrible before tearing it down and "doing it right," because they were objectively terrible and had to. The Sharks were not in that position, they were a good team with assets. They have squandered everything and are essentially an expansion team right now. An old-style expansion team.


Do we have good prospects? Not really, not yet. And we aren't really in position to get them for sure because of the way the draft lottery works. Celebrini would be a start but we all know how likely that is.

We have 0 clear first line players on the team or in the system, and it's not clear we have any decent 2nd liners either. Then we haven't even started building the defense. There's tearing it down to the studs and there's destroying the studs as well.

So you'd rather rebuild with the Sharks older players falling apart, drafting in 10-15 range, have no shot at top prospects and get nothing for players as they grow old?

As opposed to shipping older players while they can still get assets, drafting 1-5 range, and building a prsopect base?

 

[LilLeeroy]

So you'd rather rebuild with the Sharks older players falling apart, drafting in 10-15 range, have no shot at top prospects and get nothing for players as they grow old?

As opposed to shipping older players while they can still get assets, drafting 1-5 range, and building a prsopect base?

The dumbest part of the first option is they literally couldn't have even afforded Meier's QO without buyout current contracts or using assets to get rid of contracts.

There has never been a more obvious "we're going to need a full rebuild" in sports history after what Doug Wilson did to this team, and you still have people crying about about it.