Prospect Info: Tom Willander: 11th Overall 2023 Draft (Rogle BK J20) - Part 02

[credulous]

willander to me has no absolutely amazing stand out raw talent like skating or athelticism at the level of hedican and jovo that compensated for a less developed hockey iq. to me he also shows more natural hockey poise or iq a lot of the time but is still learning how to read the ice as a dman and sometimes is not sure what to do. it's the difference between being fast enough to recognize a situation and react but not knowing what to do, rather than being too slow to recognize and react at all. i think he's going to be great if his reads as a defenceman keep developing and he fills in the gaps.

willander has borderline elite skating. he's not the fastest guy on the ice but his ability to reposition and close ground is great. it's near the best in the ncaa

i don't really know what 'hockey iq' means but his vision and his decision making are pretty poor for his level of play (ncaa div i). i don't think he's tentative so much as he just doesn't really know what to do and defaults to relatively safe plays. hopefully it's because his athleticism and the relatively poor level of competition he's faced prior to this year let him dominate despite poor decision making and he'll learn though. i don't really think he has trouble processing the game so much as he just hasn't learned what to do yet

he really needs to start carrying the puck more and looking to involve his teammates in plays (especially on the offensive end of the ice) if he's gonna be a star in the nhl but even absent that he projects pretty well. right now i'd bet he ends up being a smaller skjei or maybe mikey anderson type player but you could see him ending up more like a dan hamhuis or ryan pulock if he can pick it up offensively

 

[krutovsdonut]

willander has borderline elite skating. he's not the fastest guy on the ice but his ability to reposition and close ground is great. it's near the best in the ncaa

i don't really know what 'hockey iq' means but his vision and his decision making are pretty poor for his level of play (ncaa div i). i don't think he's tentative so much as he just doesn't really know what to do and defaults to relatively safe plays. hopefully it's because his athleticism and the relatively poor level of competition he's faced prior to this year let him dominate despite poor decision making and he'll learn though. i don't really think he has trouble processing the game so much as he just hasn't learned what to do yet

he really needs to start carrying the puck more and looking to involve his teammates in plays (especially on the offensive end of the ice) if he's gonna be a star in the nhl but even absent that he projects pretty well. right now i'd bet he ends up being a smaller skjei or maybe mikey anderson type player but you could see him ending up more like a dan hamhuis or ryan pulock if he can pick it up offensively

hockey iq to me just means the particular type of intelligence that makes for elite hockey players. people tend to recognize the results of it but not look closely at what the qualities are.

i don't see the safe plays willander makes as poor decision making so much as a guy whose default at at this moment in time is to avoid mistakes. the key to me is that he is making those decisions quickly.

we have been watching him as an ncaa rookie learning north american rinks and now as a guy who was not a lock to make the wjc. those are not situations where a guy only playing defence for three years is necessarily going to let it all hang out.

 

[krutovsdonut]

LOL? What?

do you think willander has elite skating comparable to hedican? orr was done by the time i saw him so hedican is to me the second best natural skating defenceman i have seen play the game in my lifetime after paul coffey. there are better technical skaters but i think nobody but coffey has the natural stride in forward and reverse of hedican.

 

[Vector]

do you think willander has elite skating comparable to hedican? orr was done by the time i saw him so hedican is to me the second best natural skating defenceman i have seen play the game in my lifetime after paul coffey. there are better technical skaters but i think nobody but coffey has the natural stride in forward and reverse of hedican.

You said that "willander to me has no absolutely amazing stand out raw talent like skating" and that's absolutely ridiculous. He's the best skater in his draft class and one of the best skaters in NCAA & WJCs. Stylistically, he matches up with Hedican very well. If he can find another gear or two offensively, he'll be outstanding. So yes, I think he has elite skating relative to his peers like Hedican did.

 

[krutovsdonut]

You said that "willander to me has no absolutely amazing stand out raw talent like skating" and that's absolutely ridiculous. He's the best skater in his draft class and one of the best skaters in NCAA & WJCs. Stylistically, he matches up with Hedican very well. If he can find another gear or two offensively, he'll be outstanding. So yes, I think he has elite skating relative to his peers like Hedican did.

that is not what i said.

what i said is that willander's skating is not an "absolutely amazing stand out raw talent ... at the level of hedican". go back and read it.

i stand by that. i have never seen a single commentator put his skating raw talent at anywhere near the bret hedican level even among his biggest fans here. you may disagree but that does not justify calling my opinion "absolutely ridiculous" and pulling out a "lol, what" like i just said something outrageous.

i say enough dumb things here that i don't appreciate being misquoted and straw manned when i say something completely reasonable.

 

[Vector]

that is not what i said.

what i said is that willander's skating is not an "absolutely amazing stand out raw talent ... at the level of hedican". go back and read it.

i stand by that. i have never seen a single commentator put his skating raw talent at anywhere near the bret hedican level even among his biggest fans here. you may disagree but that does not justify calling my opinion "absolutely ridiculous" and pulling out a "lol, what" like i just said something outrageous.

i say enough dumb things here that i don't appreciate being misquoted and straw manned when i say something completely reasonable.

You said that "willander to me has no absolutely amazing stand out raw talent like skating" and that's absolutely ridiculous. He's the best skater in his draft class and one of the best skaters in NCAA & WJCs. Stylistically, he matches up with Hedican very well. If he can find another gear or two offensively, he'll be outstanding. So yes, I think he has elite skating relative to his peers like Hedican did.

"So yes, I think he has elite skating relative to his peers like Hedican did."

You are right in that it is a fair question to ask. Hedican isn't going to be brought up much because he's kind of a forgettable player.

 

[krutovsdonut]

"So yes, I think he has elite skating relative to his peers like Hedican did."

You are right in that it is a fair question to ask. Hedican isn't going to be brought up much because he's kind of a forgettable player.

we can disagree on that. i think though that you should also note i am talking about raw talent. hedican was not as i recall a complete skater with edge work to match the way pal coffey was, and today's skaters routinely have better edgework than in the past, so, overall, skating has improved to the level that i think neither hedican nor coffey would stand out as much today unless they worked a lot harder on their details.

anyway, i wish not to forget the way hedican skated and jovo skated into trouble. they were forces of nature to me and a treat to watch. a big part of my interest in rathbone was hoping he could pull a hedican and make a career out of incredible dominant natural skating. willander in no way invokes that for me. he's just a good skater.

 

[MS]

do you think willander has elite skating comparable to hedican? orr was done by the time i saw him so hedican is to me the second best natural skating defenceman i have seen play the game in my lifetime after paul coffey. there are better technical skaters but i think nobody but coffey has the natural stride in forward and reverse of hedican.

Willander is probably the best-skating U20 defender in the world right now.

Regardless of whether it's on a level with Hedican or not, to say 'he doesn't have a standout skill' is absurd.

 

[VanJack]

Agreed that Wilander's skating is close to 'elite'......and another season of adjustment to NA ice, and he'll be more than ready.

And given the paucity of right-shot defenders on the Canucks, there's a chance he could jump right into the NHL.

 

[F A N]

Just as an aside, Jovo started playing hockey at age 12? which is just incredible. That's not the same as "converting" to defense. I think a common issue with players learning to play defense later in their hockey lives is that they tend to have trouble when the puck is dumped into their corner. They tend to have trouble pivoting, retrieving the puck, and moving it back up ice when they don't have a lot of time and space. I don't think that was an issue with prime Jovo as much as he was often flatfooted and didn't know how to defend in front of the net.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Willander is probably the best-skating U20 defender in the world right now.

Regardless of whether it's on a level with Hedican or not, to say 'he doesn't have a standout skill' is absurd.

to quote your good friend @Vector, lol, what?

i didn't say that he doesn't have a standout skill. that's a worse and even more truncated misquote of me than vector's misquote.

to repeat, i said he doesn't have an absolutely amazing standout raw talent like hedican's skating or jovo's physicality. notice i wasn't only talking about skating there, but rather giving two examples of raw talent. that's a reasonable opinion and it's not a criticism. it's drawing a distinction between willander and those two players who people had just compared him to. i don't think the comparison is very apt.

the weird thing about this is you seem to agree with what i actually said (that his skating talent is not comparable to hedican's amazing raw talent) but you still attacked me by completely distorting what i said after agreeing with it. it's almost as if you're offended by something other than what i said and were trying to find a way to express that disapproval. i wonder what it could be that got you so riled up?

anyway, talk about epic strawmanning. well done. considering i had just reiterated what i was actually saying in a follow up post, that is among the worst misses of a paraphrase i have ever seen here. absolutely terrible work if your intention was to have an intelligent discussion.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Just as an aside, Jovo started playing hockey at age 12? which is just incredible. That's not the same as "converting" to defense. I think a common issue with players learning to play defense later in their hockey lives is that they tend to have trouble when the puck is dumped into their corner. They tend to have trouble pivoting, retrieving the puck, and moving it back up ice when they don't have a lot of time and space. I don't think that was an issue with prime Jovo as much as he was often flatfooted and didn't know how to defend in front of the net.

i believe he could barely skate before he was 11.

 

[MS]

to quote your good friend @Vector, lol, what?

i didn't say that he doesn't have a standout skill. that's a worse and even more truncated misquote of me than vector's misquote.

to repeat, i said he doesn't have an absolutely amazing standout raw talent like hedican's skating or jovo's physicality. notice i wasn't only talking about skating there, but rather giving two examples of raw talent. that's a reasonable opinion and it's not a criticism. it's drawing a distinction between willander and those two players who people had just compared him to. i don't think the comparison is very apt.

the weird thing about this is you seem to agree with what i actually said (that his skating talent is not comparable to hedican's amazing raw talent) but you still attacked me by completely distorting what i said after agreeing with it. it's almost as if you're offended by something other than what i said and were trying to find a way to express that disapproval. i wonder what it could be that got you so riled up?

anyway, talk about epic strawmanning. well done. considering i had just reiterated what i was actually saying in a follow up post, that is among the worst misses of a paraphrase i have ever seen here. absolutely terrible work if your intention was to have an intelligent discussion.

Being the single best skater in your peer group is a ‘standout trait’.

His skating is absolutely exceptional.

 

[orcatown]

Reminds me of Victor Soderstrom. Lot of the same things said about Willander were the same as those said about Soderstrom and they are physically alike. Arizona pushed Soderstrom into the League too early and he's back in the AHL. Doing fine there and likely gets back up to the NHL next season.

Think there has to be some patience with this player and probably should be looked upon as fairly long term prospect. Another two years in the NCAA and a season or two in the AHL or on loan, if possible, back to the SHL. Makes him around 23 when he plays with the Canucks.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Being the single best skater in your peer group is a ‘standout trait’.

His skating is absolutely exceptional.

you are playing word games.

it's like me saying soucy is not as tall as myers, and you claiming i am saying soucy is not tall.

 

[docbenton]

If he keeps growing his game the second half he would be ahead of anyone on the right side aside from Hronek. He can skate and defend and transition the puck at an NHL level.

The best thing for his development would be to play another year at BU. But if they are serious about winning the Cup this year maybe that's no longer the priority. Imagine adding a top 4 RHD for nothing in March who can do the 2 most crucial things in the playoffs: defend and move the puck.

 

[ahmon]

Reminds me of Victor Soderstrom. Lot of the same things said about Willander were the same as those said about Soderstrom and they are physically alike. Arizona pushed Soderstrom into the League too early and he's back in the AHL. Doing fine there and likely gets back up to the NHL next season.

Think there has to be some patience with this player and probably should be looked upon as fairly long term prospect. Another two years in the NCAA and a season or two in the AHL or on loan, if possible, back to the SHL. Makes him around 23 when he plays with the Canucks.

Don't agree with that Soderstrom is 5'11, Willander is already 6'1 was 6'1 at the draft.

If Willander is small, no way we don't draft ASP over him, hell if Willander is small should have went with Perreault, Wood, or Benson etc.

What makes Willander intriguing is a good sized RHD who can skate, and defend. The offense is bonus to me.

Soderstrom is a sub 6 foot puck mover who has a sneaky good wrister, developed well early and played a decent role at the SHL in his draft year. Naturally any dman playing minutes at any mens league will garner interest at the draft.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Im prettey sure he was used like #1 D for Sweden in the game vs Switzerland

 

[BluesyShoes]

I hope they don't rush Willander. Some odd comments in this tread about IQ and skating; his mobility and his raw positioning and timing instincts are what make him so effective defensively. I hope he gets the time and opportunity at lower levels to figure out his game offensively. Assuming Hutson moves on, hopefully next year at BU Willander gets the minutes to feel out quarterbacking in the offensive zone and gets a lot of reps to download a lot of data to start building patterns and instincts offensively. I think he has the potential to be a great distributor and a valuable secondary assist type of player; he's got great positional foresight and I could see that translating into an awareness of where and when to apply pressure to break down defenses and create chances for his forwards.

 

[StreetHawk]

I hope they don't rush Willander. Some odd comments in this tread about IQ and skating; his mobility and his raw positioning and timing instincts are what make him so effective defensively. I hope he gets the time and opportunity at lower levels to figure out his game offensively. Assuming Hutson moves on, hopefully next year at BU Willander gets the minutes to feel out quarterbacking in the offensive zone and gets a lot of reps to download a lot of data to start building patterns and instincts offensively. I think he has the potential to be a great distributor and a valuable secondary assist type of player; he's got great positional foresight and I could see that translating into an awareness of where and when to apply pressure to break down defenses and create chances for his forwards.

Canucks historically do not rush their NCAA guys. Be it Schneider, Demko, Boeser, Hughes, Gaudette, McDonaugh, Lockwood, etc. down the line. Once they have excelled at the NCAA level, then they look to sign them.

Even those that didn't ultimately pan out, they didn't rush them. Main question to ask was are they ready to move up in competition?
Gaudette after his JR year, when he came off a 52 and 60 point season. Time to move to the next level.
McDonaugh, waited for him to do all 4 years, with 39 and 38 points in his final 2 seasons.
Lockwood, after his senior year as well. Injury plagued So. year, then put up 31 and 23 points in the final 2. Didn't make it, but they didn't rush him.

 

[orcatown]

Don't agree with that Soderstrom is 5'11, Willander is already 6'1 was 6'1 at the draft.

If Willander is small, no way we don't draft ASP over him, hell if Willander is small should have went with Perreault, Wood, or Benson etc.

What makes Willander intriguing is a good sized RHD who can skate, and defend. The offense is bonus to me.

Soderstrom is a sub 6 foot puck mover who has a sneaky good wrister, developed well early and played a decent role at the SHL in his draft year. Naturally any dman playing minutes at any mens league will garner interest at the draft.

For what it's worth Soderstrom is most often listed at 6' - so maybe an inch shorter.

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Soderstrom is now near 200 lbs which Willander will likely be as well.

Soderstrom is still projected as top pairing type d man at the NHL level and so it's not like you're down grading Willander by the comparison.

But there should be no rush to push Willander ahead too quickly. I think Arizona did this with Soderstrom and it likely set him back some.

 

[alternate]

My expectation is he returns for a high-minute sophomore season, then goes pro for the playoffs.

 

[sting101]

Willander will write his own story. Seems like a lot of people already trying to cash the cheque here with so many player comps

Disaster if he doesn't crack the roster in a positive way till 23. Fully expect a huge step next year at BU with more responsibility and another year of growth and development then a rapid ascent to the big club

I've been impressed with what i've seen to date. Not many players in the U20s where you can say that if it got a little quicker and heavier they could handle it and still keep the puck moving in a positive way.

Does need to be more assertive and fill in some gaps in his play. It's anybodies guess how that comes about but the one thing to hang a hat on is he blew everyone away at the combines, in interviews and as teams started to get to learn about his character

 

[F A N]

Canucks historically do not rush their NCAA guys. Be it Schneider, Demko, Boeser, Hughes, Gaudette, McDonaugh, Lockwood, etc. down the line. Once they have excelled at the NCAA level, then they look to sign them.

Even those that didn't ultimately pan out, they didn't rush them. Main question to ask was are they ready to move up in competition?
Gaudette after his JR year, when he came off a 52 and 60 point season. Time to move to the next level.
McDonaugh, waited for him to do all 4 years, with 39 and 38 points in his final 2 seasons.
Lockwood, after his senior year as well. Injury plagued So. year, then put up 31 and 23 points in the final 2. Didn't make it, but they didn't rush him.

I think there were several factors involved. Notably previous management was quite accommodating in terms of working with the player, they provided an honest assessment of where they saw the player (not making false promises), and the player’s preference to stay in college rather than spend time in the AHL.

I don’t recall what happened with every player but I recall that the Canucks did want Boeser to go back for his sophomore year while they wanted to sign Hughes but Hughes decided to go back for another year.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

I really want to see him fake the shot at the point and beat his man with his exceptional skating and quickness to create better lanes to the net. Show some more poise with the puck and hang on to it a little longer to open up space for his teammates in the offensive zone.