Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

[Guess]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Pierre Lebrun said he talked to a bunch of GMs and they didn't even know that Toffoli was in play, the trade was initiated by Calgary.

Basically he didn't get shopped and so the return was dependent on the few teams who actively approached us for him.

That's nuts if true and explains the underwhelming return.

 

[Vachon23]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Pierre Lebrun said he talked to a bunch of GMs and they didn't even know that Toffoli was in play, the trade was initiated by Calgary.

Basically he didn't get shopped and so the return was dependent on the few teams who actively approached us for him.

That's nuts if true and explains the underwhelming return.

I didn’t like that part either

 

[417]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Pierre Lebrun said he talked to a bunch of GMs and they didn't even know that Toffoli was in play, the trade was initiated by Calgary.

Basically he didn't get shopped and so the return was dependent on the few teams who actively approached us for him.

That's nuts if true and explains the underwhelming return.

He wasn’t shopping the player, he got a offer he liked and he pulled the trigger.

I don’t see what’s the problem with that? I suppose he could have shopped it but that can also backfire.

we won’t know the true value of the deal for another few years, let’s see

 

[habamillions]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Pierre Lebrun said he talked to a bunch of GMs and they didn't even know that Toffoli was in play, the trade was initiated by Calgary.

Basically he didn't get shopped and so the return was dependent on the few teams who actively approached us for him.

That's nuts if true and explains the underwhelming return.

Reminds me of halak when gauthier traded him for eller.

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Pierre Lebrun said he talked to a bunch of GMs and they didn't even know that Toffoli was in play, the trade was initiated by Calgary.

Basically he didn't get shopped and so the return was dependent on the few teams who actively approached us for him.

That's nuts if true and explains the underwhelming return.

You think that’s an underwhelming return for a decent but not star player with term? I don’t think so myself. What would a whelmed deal for him look like to you?

 

[Habs]

Bullied

And you saying like Bergevin tells me you were either not paying attention or just echoing many people's dislike of him. Because if there is one aspect that Bergevin excelled in, it was trades. So "bullied like the last GM" is as inaccurate as it gets.

You also talk as if the Habs settled for the 1st round pick. Sure LeBrun said they would have preferred Pelletier over the pick. But Pelletier was off the table. And Habs were happy to get the pick, as well.

Sure you could have waited closer to the TDL to move him. But you don't know if you will get a better return then. For all we know, his value could decrease by then or even worse, he can get hurt. And with the way this year has gone for the Habs, that is a distinct possibility. Toffoli already missed time to an injury this year.

Position of strength.... one of the strengths of this deal wasn't just the return, it was also no salary retained. The Habs save 2.5M this year and TT's entire 4.25M cap hit over the next two years.

I'll finish with your comment that teams would have lined up. Habs didn't make Toffoli available. So it's not like teams would have been lining up. Habs would have gladly kept TT. This is a case of Calgary really wanting him.

Reports coming out today most GM's had no idea TT was available, so yet another example of a Montreal GM not doing his job, like the Subban trade. Montreal was in the position of strength, they had no reason to cave to Calgary's trade demands. We had no rush to trade TT, he would have been a benefit here either way.

They should have waited it out to the TDL, and worst case scenario we still keep TT till a later date and we are a better team down the stretch. The fans deserve to watch a decent team after the BS they have been through with no hockey and lockdowns.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Reports coming out today most GM's had no idea TT was available, so yet another example of a Montreal GM not doing his job, like the Subban trade. Montreal was in the position of strength, they had no reason to cave to Calgary's trade demands. We had no rush to trade TT, he would have been a benefit here either way.

They should have waited it out to the TDL, and worst case scenario we still keep TT till a later date and we are a better team down the stretch. The fans deserve to watch a decent team after the BS they have been through with no hockey and lockdowns.

Keeping Toffoli makes this a decent team?.....

 

[Habs]

Keeping Toffoli makes this a decent team?.....

Makes it a better team to for the kids to play on. Can't develop on a team with no talent at all. You think Gallagher, Byron, Armia and Hoffman are going to show the kids how score? last I heard, a few of them are on the way out too. Listen, I'm not 100% against trading TT, but you hold out for the player you want, not for a 2nd round pick and a late first in a 'meh' drafte year after number 5

 

[Runner77]

Reports coming out today most GM's had no idea TT was available, so yet another example of a Montreal GM not doing his job, like the Subban trade. Montreal was in the position of strength, they had no reason to cave to Calgary's trade demands. We had no rush to trade TT, he would have been a benefit here either way.

They should have waited it out to the TDL, and worst case scenario we still keep TT till a later date and we are a better team down the stretch. The fans deserve to watch a decent team after the BS they have been through with no hockey and lockdowns.

Not at all like the Subban trade where Bergevin painted himself into a corner and was only left with the Preds as an option. Here Hughes wasn’t actively shopping Toffoli but had drawn interest from LA and Calgary and the latter came in with an offer he liked further to a negotiation. I don’t see an issue with it, Toffoli is not an elite type player and the Flames coughed up the first rounder the Habs were looking to add and more.

 

[MJN79]

Makes it a better team to for the kids to play on. Can't develop on a team with no talent at all. You think Gallagher, Byron, Armia and Hoffman are going to show the kids how score? last I heard, a few of them are on the way out too. Listen, I'm not 100% against trading TT, but you hold out for the player you want, not for a 2nd round pick and a late first in a 'meh' drafte year after number 5

Im a bit shocked people expected more than a 1st and a b level prospect for a 29 year old winger.
Bennett went for less when he was traded to Florida and he is a C and was younger.
Toffoli went for less also when he went to Vancouver from LA.

I find some are overating our players especially this season when they all have been responsible for this putrid record.

People would have preferred a Col 1st?

There are only a handful of teams, maybe 12-14 teams that would contemplate trading a 1st round pick and thats without cap implications, im sure that number shrinks based on that and their needs.
I find the return was good and its a good trade for both teams.

 

[TomKosto]

Keeping Toffoli makes this a decent team?.....

Habs fans are so used to have a mediocre team that they can't accept the concept of a rebuild... It's not like TT is going to get better at 30 years old. I think we are overrating him a little bit here right now. W were not getting a first + a blueship prospect...

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Hughes was also probably trying to get TT to a place he wanted to go in Calgary and didn't want it dragging out

I know, you want loyalty buy a dog, but I'm also sick of hearing nobody wants to sign here

Totally ok with the trade and could care less about TT making us a better team rest of this year or next, I don't want to be a better (read mediocre) team anymore

 

[Habs]

Not at all like the Subban trade where Bergevin painted himself into a corner and was only left with the Preds as an option. Here Hughes wasn’t actively shopping Toffoli but had drawn interest from LA and Calgary and the latter came in with an offer he liked further to a negotiation. I don’t see an issue with it, Toffoli is not an elite type player and the Flames coughed up the first rounder the Habs were looking to add and more.

known fact MB never talked to hardly any gm's about PK. Anyways, guess I'm in the minority here, I'm not against trading TT I just don't like the return at all. Package him up, whatever, its not a good return

 

[dcyhabs]

If he sent him to his preferred destination that’s fine. I doubt he could have gotten a lot more.

The habs pretty much have to move salary after MB’s various antics.

 

[Whitesnake]

We should probably stop expecting a top 20 pick....and it probably ends at 25....

 

[Guess]

You think that’s an underwhelming return for a decent but not star player with term? I don’t think so myself. What would a whelmed deal for him look like to you?

Change Heineman or the first round pick with a top 6 prospect who is more of a sure bet and I'm ok with it. As it stands we are taking on lots of risk of getting back worse value than we traded (yes, better than nothing but usually a player in demand will get you more. I find it hard to believe few teams would love to have toffoli)

 

[Guess]

He wasn’t shopping the player, he got a offer he liked and he pulled the trigger.

I don’t see what’s the problem with that? I suppose he could have shopped it but that can also backfire.

we won’t know the true value of the deal for another few years, let’s see

Why would it backfire if he shopped Toffoli? The players all talked to Hughes beforehand and Toffoli knew the odds were high he would be traded, so the rumors wouldn't matter.

Our biggest assets need to be managed carefully to maximize value.

For sure in the end the first round pick and Heineman could be great but it's a big risk.

 

[Runner77]

known fact MB never talked to hardly any gm's about PK. Anyways, guess I'm in the minority here, I'm not against trading TT I just don't like the return at all. Package him up, whatever, its not a good return

Some of it hinges on Heineman. I guess we’ll have to wait and see. I just like to give the new guys the benefit of the doubt at this early stage.

I remember when calling out Bergevin after many years of lies and shortcomings and being called a “hater.” Well here I am giving the new guys some rope just like I did with Bergevin, so I really have no agenda. I want results as much as you do.

 

[Guess]

If he sent him to his preferred destination that’s fine. I doubt he could have gotten a lot more.

The habs pretty much have to move salary after MB’s various antics.

It's quite possible this is the case, Hughes seems to me like a person who wants to treat his players well.

 

[Max2]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Pierre Lebrun said he talked to a bunch of GMs and they didn't even know that Toffoli was in play, the trade was initiated by Calgary.

Basically he didn't get shopped and so the return was dependent on the few teams who actively approached us for him.

That's nuts if true and explains the underwhelming return.

A first round pick and a good prospect is more than fair. Plus the 5th and the other salary dump guy.

 

[Miller Time]

known fact MB never talked to hardly any gm's about PK. Anyways, guess I'm in the minority here, I'm not against trading TT I just don't like the return at all. Package him up, whatever, its not a good return

What's the standard you're working from?

Or, what would have been a good (& reasonable/realistic) return in your mind?

Value-wise, it seems very much within the range we've seen in recent memory for non-elite vets dealt in deals returning a 1st+...

 

[Kriss E]

Reports coming out today most GM's had no idea TT was available, so yet another example of a Montreal GM not doing his job, like the Subban trade. Montreal was in the position of strength, they had no reason to cave to Calgary's trade demands. We had no rush to trade TT, he would have been a benefit here either way.

They should have waited it out to the TDL, and worst case scenario we still keep TT till a later date and we are a better team down the stretch. The fans deserve to watch a decent team after the BS they have been through with no hockey and lockdowns.

I reckon it sounds worse than it actually is.
Not every team will be interested in TT at this time so, who are those GMs that didn't hear about him being available?
Reports apparently out suggesting Habs really wanted Heineman as well. Add in a first and couple other assets so if CGY comes knocking , you hear them out, go to your team asking "who do we like from their prospect group?" and they come back with Heiny (lol) as a definite ++...then what? You tell them gimme a couple days to sort things out? What if they give you a 2h deadline as they have an internal time-line.
These are soundbites. They mean very little as we are missing so much information to evaluate if it was a poorly handled transaction or not.


PK trade is different given the direction of team. Moving him for an older declining player didn't make much sense giving the make up of our team. But TT got us prospect/picks, which is line with our direction.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Bergevin would have gotten more.

People will miss him when we start losing trades.

 

[The Great Weal]

We should probably stop expecting a top 20 pick....and it probably ends at 25....

Ya we can stop pretending like the Flames might fall out of the playoffs. It's going to be a late 1st.

 

[dcyhabs]

Bergevin would have gotten more.

People will miss him when we start losing trades.

After MB’s moves last offseason I’ll never miss him.