Proposal: Toffoli for Kunin + L'Heureux + 2nd

[beardawg]

Pretty bad for Nashville IMO. They're in no position to be selling the future for a 30 year old winger

 

[Stewie Griffin]

He also got 2 firsts 20th overall + Nolan Foote a recent first rounder.
To the right team, Toffoli as absolutely worth a 1st + . He's been very good lately, great playoffs last year all the way to the cup finals and finished 7th in goals scored on the season. His deal is a steal for the production he has.

Last year was only the 2nd time in his career where he scored over 24 goals, and it came in a shortened year where he faced the same 6 opponents over and over again. I'd think it's safe to assume that's the outlier, when he's been ~20 goal scorer in his career.

 

[samsagat]

I've put Kunin in the trade because he has a 2.3 mil cap hit while not producing much, even if he's playing on the Nashville top-6...

Pretending he has 1st rd value is delusional. He's worth a low 2nd rd at best.

And I see people throwing '' Toffoli's not worth two 1st rd pick'', but there's a big difference between a high 1st rd pick, a middle one or a late one.

L'Heureux was drafted 27th overall, this is almost the 2nd rd...

Toffoli, with his pedigree and contract, is certainly worth a low 1st rd pick, an ex 1st rd in 2016 that is now an average 3rd liner and a middle 2nd rd pick...

 

[tgo0]

I've put Kunin in the trade because he has a 2.3 mil cap hit while not producing much, even if he's playing on the Nashville top-6...

Pretending he has 1st rd value is delusional. He's worth a low 2nd rd at best.

And I see people throwing '' Toffoli's not worth two 1st rd pick'', but there's a big difference between a high 1st rd pick, a middle one or a late one.

L'Heureux was drafted 27th overall, this is almost the 2nd rd...

Toffoli, with his pedigree and contract, is certainly worth a low 1st rd pick, an ex 1st rd in 2016 that is now an average 3rd liner and a middle 2nd rd pick...

It seems like only 1-2 Habs fans in this thread think that. When all other neutral fan bases disagree maybe it’s time to reevaluate without the rose coloured glasses.

 

[McJedi]

Explanation of trade rationale:

Nashville are surprisingly high in the standings .

They have good defense, good goaltending and a good center line, the only thing they lack is depth at wings, particularly in the top-6.

They're 9.9 mil under the salary cap.


Mtl only strenght is at wing. They're in a position where they have to rebuild, they must acquire future assets for what can be unloaded.


Toffoli for Kunin + L'Heureux + 2nd 2022


Toffoli can play both wings, his contract is affordable and not too long. He's a proven scorer, won a SC and not too old at 29 yo.


Kunin is 23 and had back to back 0,5 pt/game seasons. There's still hope of untapped potential with him.

L'Heureux was a late 1st rd pick at last draft and the 2nd will be middle round.

Thoughts?

Just add Guhle and a Habs 2nd in 2023 and you’re getting there to a realistic trade. Sheesh is your offer one sided.

 

[Benstheman]

Right now, i think Toffoli is worth mid/late 1st + prospect

 

[samsagat]

Just add Guhle and a Habs 2nd in 2023 and you’re getting there to a realistic trade. Sheesh is your offer one sided.

Oookay yeah!!!

We're the ones giving the best prospect, the best player and NOW it's fair...

Whatever

 

[Benstheman]

Just add Guhle and a Habs 2nd in 2023 and you’re getting there to a realistic trade. Sheesh is your offer one sided.

Responding to an atrocious offer with an even more atrocious one never led to anything.

 

[Benstheman]

Oookay yeah!!!

We're the ones giving the best prospect, the best player and NOW it's fair...

Whatever

And most probably the best 2nd round pick.

 

[samsagat]

It seems like only 1-2 Habs fans in this thread think that. When all other neutral fan bases disagree maybe it’s time to reevaluate without the rose coloured glasses.

Neutral like thinking habs fans are the ones not knowing hockey on HFboard?

Yeah, I've seen this kind of arrogant complacent ''neutrality'' a lot here...

Toffoli ain't no Taylor Hall or Evander Kane, he has a good reputation and a good hockey career/pedegree.

If he would fetch a low 1st and a prospect at the trade deadline (while being an UFA), I don't think he's worth less than that having a good and not too long contract.

If it's Luke ''freeking'' Kunin that moves the needle from being a fair trade to being an ''awfull'' one, then take him away, I don't give a shit.

I would take the 2.3 mil cap space anyday instead. For me he has not a big value...

 

[jfhabs]

Last year was only the 2nd time in his career where he scored over 24 goals, and it came in a shortened year where he faced the same 6 opponents over and over again. I'd think it's safe to assume that's the outlier, when he's been ~20 goal scorer in his career.

He averages 24g per 82 games over his nhl career. Outlier or not he's been very good for over 2 years straight with 3 different teams recently, why should we ignore it?

Do you think his contract his bad for his production ?

Why wouldn't he compare to Coleman in terms of value?

How many goals did Coleman average before the trade? Wasn't his last season in Jersey an outlier too?

All in all, I'm not exactly sure why you're trying to to doscredit Toffoli and his potential value. He's been great lately and somehow that should play against him or not count at all according to you...

 

[Viqsi]

If you guys think you can get a better player (with as much a friendly contract) for a guy like Kunin, and L'Heureux who haven't exactly tear down the Q, go ahead. But I think you're dreaming...

Criminy, you're hitting all the basic "DO NOTs" here.

Who says we have any desire to trade Kunin and/or L'Heureux at all? Why don't we just, y'know, keep them?

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Quick answer Poile hangs up pretty quick with this proposal

 

[Viqsi]

I would take the 2.3 mil cap space anyday instead. For me he has not a big value...

The team that owns Kunin's rights disagrees with this assessment. That is why trades are a negotiation, not a simple purchase. Couple that with a lack of desire or necessity to move L'Heureux and you have a proposal that just doesn't work for the Preds. Toffoli might be a useful add, but the Preds are not in a position to be giving up what Montreal needs.

 

[jfhabs]

It seems like only 1-2 Habs fans in this thread think that. When all other neutral fan bases disagree maybe it’s time to reevaluate without the rose coloured glasses.

Maybe a tad too much value coming from Nashville, but I'm sure you're team/fan base is hoping they could get a player as impactful as Kunin for a 1st round pick right?

 

[samsagat]

Criminy, you're hitting all the basic "DO NOTs" here.

Who says we have any desire to trade Kunin and/or L'Heureux at all? Why don't we just, y'know, keep them?

Ok, maybe.

But value wise, I personnaly think it's fair.

And like I said in a previous post, if it's Kunin's the problem value wise, keep him.

If I was Mtl GM, I would take the 2.3 mil cap space anyday as it could be worth more than Kunin himself comes the trade deadline...

 

[jfhabs]

Criminy, you're hitting all the basic "DO NOTs" here.

Who says we have any desire to trade Kunin and/or L'Heureux at all? Why don't we just, y'know, keep them?

Aren't you a fan of Columbus?
I personnally wouldn't do that trade for Montreal.
I'd prefer getting a first elsewhere if I'm trading Toffoli
Kunin is redundant for us, even tho I like him as a player, we have plenty of bottom/middle 6 players as is.
Clearly I'm not as high as Nashville management on L'Heureux, I wouldn't have picked him in the 1st round last draft and so far he hasn't shown much progress (still early).

I get why Nashville doesn't do it either, but I doubt they'd keep Kunin if someone offered up a 2nd for him let alone a 1st

 

[samsagat]

The team that owns Kunin's rights disagrees with this assessment. That is why trades are a negotiation, not a simple purchase. Couple that with a lack of desire or necessity to move L'Heureux and you have a proposal that just doesn't work for the Preds. Toffoli might be a useful add, but the Preds are not in a position to be giving up what Montreal needs.

Fair enough.

Good post.

 

[Viqsi]

Aren't you a fan of Columbus?

I get why Nashville doesn't do it either, but I doubt they'd keep Kunin if someone offered up a 2nd for him let alone a 1st

I've gotten the impression that Kunin is more highly valued by Poile than that. I'm not entirely sure why (he's not exactly wowed me either), but ultimately that's not my call to make.

 

[Soundgarden]

Nashville will probably move Forsberg before trading 2 firsts for a 30 year old UFA.

 

[jfhabs]

View attachment 483268


I've gotten the impression that Kunin is more highly valued by Poile than that. I'm not entirely sure why (he's not exactly wowed me either), but ultimately that's not my call to make.

Well of course, but we're here to talk!
Anyway don't see Nashville wanting to load up.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Aren't you a fan of Columbus?
I personnally wouldn't do that trade for Montreal.
I'd prefer getting a first elsewhere if I'm trading Toffoli
Kunin is redundant for us, even tho I like him as a player, we have plenty of bottom/middle 6 players as is.
Clearly I'm not as high as Nashville management on L'Heureux, I wouldn't have picked him in the 1st round last draft and so far he hasn't shown much progress (still early).

I get why Nashville doesn't do it either, but I doubt they'd keep Kunin if someone offered up a 2nd for him let alone a 1st

That is the main point. Poile traded back into the 1st round to draft this guy. He’s not going to turn around and trade a few months later unless it was an offer he couldn’t refuse and this isn’t it at all

 

[Viqsi]

That is the main point. Poile traded back into the 1st round to draft this guy. He’s not going to turn around and trade a few months later unless it was an offer he couldn’t refuse and this isn’t it at all

This. Admittedly, I wouldn't have picked L'Heureux that early either, but after getting his hands on Svechkov I was willing to forgive Poile his potential eccentricities with that one.

 

[triggrman]

Yeah, even if the value was there, there's no need for Nashville to get older, their goal is to get younger while remaining competitive. Kunin is just holding Forsberg's spot right now. We're fine on the wing, no need to trade.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

This. Admittedly, I wouldn't have picked L'Heureux that early either, but after getting his hands on Svechkov I was willing to forgive Poile his potential eccentricities with that one.

I didn’t like the pick at first but watching him play I can see why poile grabbed him. If he matures he has the skills to be pretty good