Rush5Collapse5 said:
01/02: 72GP 36G 49A 85PTS
02/03: 82GP 46G 51A 97PTS
03/04: 68GP 17G 43A 60PTS
05/06: 33GP 12G 19A 31PTS
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01/02: 72GP 36G 49A 85PTS
02/03: 82GP 46G 51A 97PTS
03/04: 68GP 17G 43A 60PTS
05/06: 33GP 12G 19A 31PTS
Rush5Collapse5 said:
Is it really that hard to look up?
2001-02: 3rd in league scoring.
2002-03: 5th in league scoring.
2003-04 he was inside the top 15 in league scoring at the All-star break, despite struggling. He was still inside the top-20 when he was hurt, and scoring at a similar PPG to Thornton, Iginla, Tkachuk, Doan (in his career year) and others. As 'poor' as that season was, he was still one of the game's top scorers prior to the Moore incident. I don't think most people really realize this.
05-06 he got off to a horrible start in his first 15 games, but has posted 10-10-20 in his last 19 games, and been one of the higher scoring players in the league over that stretch. 2nd highest scoring player at his position available to Canada right now.
FSU Seminoles said:
No, he couldn't have died fairly easily.
The fatal/paralyzing neck injuries are pretty much always direct blows to the top of the head which cause vertebrae to collapse and sever the spinal cord. When the words 'broken neck' were uttered re: Moore, I think most people assumed he suffered this sort of injury. Which he didn't at all.
Here is a spine diagram:
http://www.gwc.maricopa.edu/class/bio201/vert/vertut.htm
What happened to Moore (as I understand it) was that the force of the fall chipped two of the spikey things in his neck vertebrae.
It's not a pleasant injury, but isn't really that serious, and presented no threat of death or paralysis. As I said, Isbister played through much the same injury in 03-04. At the time of the injury, I remember a doctor here being asked what the prognosis was, and the doctor replied that it was probably a 6-8 week thing, and that he didn't see why Moore couldn't be back by the end of the playoffs.
Moore's neck was probably ready to play inside of two months. His problem was the concussion.
Rush5Collapse5 said:
And Heatley isn't? I don't know about you, but I've never killed my best friend by driving recklessly.
monster_bertuzzi said:But Heatley didn't plan it all in a labratory at midnight like Bertuzzi did.
IT'S ALIVE!
Daily Special
Registered User
Shane said:
Heatley had an accident. Bertuzzi intentially pounded someone into the ice. One was a random tragedy, the other was a crime. They aren't analogous.
Bertuzzi is to professional sports what Tom Delay is to the Bush cabinet.
Rush5Collapse5 said:
No, it wasn't an accident. An accident is when you're driving and you hit a patch of black ice and spin-out. An accident is when an animal runs across the road and you can't stop in time. Dany Heatley did not "accidently" drive his Ferrari 130 km/h down a narrow city street. He intentionally broke the law, and when he did so, not only did he endanger himself, he endangered his friend, and anyone else on the road that night. It wasn't "random". Dany Heatley accepted the consequences when he chose to do what he did. Ignorance is no excuse.
Todd Bertuzzi took a swing at Steve Moore. That was no accident. Obviously he intended to injure Moore, he wasn't throwing muffins at him. Did he intend to break Moore's neck? Did he intend to give Moore a concussion? Did he intend to end Moore's career? Unless you're Todd Bertuzzi, you can't know for certain.
Dany Heatley endangered Dan Snyder's life. That was no accident. Obviously he didn't intend to kill Snyder, but regardless, that's what happened. Dany Heatley broke the law and somebody died because of it. He's a criminal, whether you like it or not.
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This thread was intended to be about Bertuzzi making the Olympic team, not Heatley or his accident. Can we get back on topic please?
gobolt7 said:
No, it's very much on topic. I was simply drawing parallels between the two incidents. If one believes that Bertuzzi shouldn't be on the team because of his incident but allows Healtey in spite of his, I would say that's quite hypocritical. Now, if you believed that Bertuzzi shouldn't be on the team because of his performance this year then that's a different story.
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Good post, Shane.
I enjoy the idea of chucking muffins at players we don't like.
Anywho, I'll go back on topic. I think Todd Bertuzzi deserves to be on the team. Why? Because he's a good hockey player. Pretty simple.
I enjoy the idea of chucking muffins at players we don't like.
Anywho, I'll go back on topic. I think Todd Bertuzzi deserves to be on the team. Why? Because he's a good hockey player. Pretty simple.
Shane said:
I dont mind drawing a parallel, I just dont think this is the thread to rehash an accident vs intentional argument.
What Bertuzzi did was criminal, if anyone of you guys would have done the same thing to one of your buddies on the ice or even outside of the ice you would be serving jail time...You would not be getting praise by your peers, believe me...Your record would follow you everywhere and people would not forgive as easily, so why treat this guy any different than society would treat you? I don't care if he's a superstar, he commited a crime....And the big difference is that he is now playing and living his dreams while Steve Moore might never return again, YES, he killed Steve Moore, killed his career, his passion and love....I don't hate, I only believe in justice , Bert should sit on principal alone and let a younger player play...A younger player would only make sense as that would be one more player ready for the 2010 Games held here at home...Bert, what a joke!!
LannysStach
Thou shall
Life 101: it isn't whether you win or lose, but how you play the game.
do unto others as you'd have others do unto you.
with how sickened Canadians are from coast to coast (read any newspaper in the country today), if bertuzzi was half the man his supporters think he is, he would withdraw for the good of the games and the team. but he isn't even half the man.
do unto others as you'd have others do unto you.
with how sickened Canadians are from coast to coast (read any newspaper in the country today), if bertuzzi was half the man his supporters think he is, he would withdraw for the good of the games and the team. but he isn't even half the man.
LannysStach said:
Yes he is. He wants a chance to prove himself. He would be zero the man if he would step down now/before the tournament.
I'd be disappointed if he can't handle the pressure and fold. With this kind of situation, it's in Bertuzzi's best interest to go ALL-IN. Because if Canada wins gold and he is a big part of that - which I'm sure he'll be... I mean.. Thornton-Bertuzzi line.. unstoppable on paper - then he'll be satisfied and maybe some people talk more about his positives, than his negatives. He has his chance to shut up a lot of nay-sayers right now. Who wouldn't want to take a chance on that?
Heatley's accident did not occur within the confines of a hockey rink, and have no bearing on his standing as a hockey player.
Or, if you prefer, Heatley belongs on this team becuase, unlike Bertuzzi, he has been a great player long enough to deserve the spot. Both within the NHL and internationally.
Or, if you prefer, Heatley belongs on this team becuase, unlike Bertuzzi, he has been a great player long enough to deserve the spot. Both within the NHL and internationally.
shakes
Pep City
- Aug 20, 2003
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Resolute said:
You will have better luck using the latter excuse. Both were reckless actions which damaged plenty of people.. unfortunately one of them isn't here anymore.
For the record I think both should be on the team, I just hate it when "rules" apply to some but not the other.
The rules apply to both equally. We are judging both's ability and history as hockey players. Heatley did not kill anyone as part of a hockey game. Bertuzzi did end someone's carreer as part of a hockey game. Heatley has consistantly, and recently, been a top performer both at the NHL and international levels. Bertuzzi has not.
Resolute said:
This is all kinds of stupid, but I suppose that's what passes for logic on the Flames bandwagon these days.
If Heatley shot a bunch of nuns, he should still be on the team, because "it did not occur within the confines of a hockey rink"? (big words, by the way, Resolute
)Resolute said:
The point is that some posters are claiming that Bert doesn't belong on the team because he "broke the law." But Dany Heatly broke the law too, and nobody cares that he's on the team. That's what we call a double standard.
Daily Special
Registered User
Shane said:
Your bias is showing. If you're going to be a Bertuzzi apologist, at least try to hide your idolization of Vancouver and hatred of Ottawa.
Bertuzzi went "Bellevue" and maniacally attacked someone, while Heatley and his friend were having fun in a fast car.
To most jury's, Heatley looks negligent, but not "criminal", conversely Bertuzzi looks like a sadistic uncontrollable wild man, and not surprisingly, is already considered to be just that by most.
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Resolute said:
On what planet has Heatley been a 'great player' for a longer period of time than Bertuzzi?
Heatley has had one big season (but still Bertuzzi was the First-team All-star that year at Heatley's position) and then a huge first 20 games this year. As late as this past summer, many wondered if he was a one-year wonder and if he'd ever get back to where he was in 02-03.
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