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Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

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LeafChief said:
My favourite posters are the Sandin v. Liljegren posters. FYI for the burner account gang. We have Sandin + Liljegren.

One of our prospects being superior to another one of our prospects doesn't diminish the lesser prospect.
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I see no reason why posters cant debate which player is better. Seems natural.

Unless these posters are taking it to far. I really haven't seen much of this though.
 
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Stamkos4life said:
I see no reason why posters cant debate which player is better. Seems natural.

Unless these posters are taking it to far. I really haven't seen much of this though.
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Debate is healthy.

My point is that one player developing at a quicker rate than expected doesn't diminish what the other player is doing.

My second point was that certain posters have burner accounts to make it seem as though people agree with their outlandish takes.

#:thumbu:
 
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Maple Leafs said:
Keefe said Lilly should have been a healthy scratch before he suffered an injury last season, he was that bad ... Dubas claimed Lily was about to be called up to steal a spot on the Leafs but he got injured ... Dubas says dumb stuff sometimes ... Lily needs another season in the AHL and develops his d'zone game more, he doesnt have Sandins skill set
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Keefe never said anything of the sort. He said he had struggles, but you are exaggerating by claiming he said he should have been a healthy scratch.

If Liljegren needs another year in the AHL to work on his dzone game then so does Sandin, because Liljegren is currently the better of the two in their own end.

And Liljegren has a pretty rounded skill set, I think we will see his offense return over time. No one was ever worried about his offensive game translating, but they did worry about whether he could play sound D. I'm pretty certain they've just been focused on developing his D game to NHL level. The lack of offense is partly due to the situations that Keefe and co have put him in. Very reminiscent of what Babs did with Rielly tbh
 
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Sypher04 said:
Keefe never said anything of the sort. He said he had struggles, but you are exaggerating by claiming he said he should have been a healthy scratch.

If Liljegren needs another year in the AHL to work on his dzone game then so does Sandin, because Liljegren is currently the better of the two in their own end.
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“We were giving him these minutes early in the season, but it wasn’t going as well, and it was hurting our team, but he has really stabilized his game, and taken very big steps, and our team has benefited from it.”

He was being given more minutes than his play warranted prior to his injury. What I find fascinating, this is also when Dubas was saying he would have been called up if not for his injury...clearly some tire pumping bs because Keefe didn’t see it the same. Anyways, old news he was WAY better after the injury and is back on track.
 
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More ready than Sandin. His game is tighter at the moment but not sure he will get the nod yet.
 
DarkKnight said:
“We were giving him these minutes early in the season, but it wasn’t going as well, and it was hurting our team, but he has really stabilized his game, and taken very big steps, and our team has benefited from it.”

He was being given more minutes than his play warranted prior to his injury. What I find fascinating, this is also when Dubas was saying he would have been called up if not for his injury...clearly some tire pumping bs because Keefe didn’t see it the same. Anyways, old news he was WAY better after the injury and is back on track.
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You're not wrong but that doesn't say anything about a healthy scratch.
 
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LeafChief said:
Not sure I agree with this. Sandin seems to be in another realm. With what's available, I think Sandin/Schmaltz/Liljegren are our best for that bottom pair until Dermott is back.
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I don't fully agree. I think Liljegren is steadier defensively today than Sandin, but not showing as much offensively. Some of that is lack of offensive opportunity, but certainly not all. I still regard them on similar tier as prospects, they may just end up being complementary style wise to one another
 
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Rielly Ceci Muzzin Barrie can all play 22-23 minutes a game (Rielly as high as 25+).

I don't see the harm in running Sandin-Liljegren as the third pairing for 9 games in a sheltered role. A lot of teams out there don't have elite forechecking in their bottom 6. There's only a handful of teams where they would get severely burned but these teams would also burn any one of Marincin/Harpur/Schmaltz.

After the 9 games decide whose worthy of staying up (well not that it matters for Lil, his ELC kicks in regardless).

The data coming in is like a stream. Whose better flip flops game to game. Put them up against NHL regular season competition and you'll get your answer if both, one or none of them are ready.
 
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Sandin is standing out, Liljegren isn't. They are both playing solid hockey but Liljegren is playing more conservatively. Also helps Sandin is getting a LOT more ice time with a much better partner

I really hope Babcock plays Sandin - Liljegren for a game
 
AM34WN29MM16 said:
You mean like when Mittelstadt just walked around Sandin and went in uncontested?
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Who cares? Remember a year ago when Marleau walked around Dahlin and went in uncontested? A whole bunch of people on here were saying that Dahlin was not ready for the NHL. Then Dahlin went on to play more than 21 minutes a game and be a finalist for the Calder. Mistakes in the pre-season mean absolutely nothing. Coaches are looking at how their lines, pairings and lineups look together. Players know where they stand with the team based on who they are playing with. This is not like it was 40 years ago. Teams know where all the players in their system are at long before training camp. They have put together development plans and decided where players are playing (both on the team, and elsewhere). Training camp and pre-season gives them a chance to see everyone together, but there is not a lot of movement up or down the depth chart.
 
AM34WN29MM16 said:
You mean like when Mittelstadt just walked around Sandin and went in uncontested?
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I have a lot more confidence in Sandin's mobility and intelligence to improve in situations like that than I do with anyone he's competing with. So he missed breaking up a pass and got beat, it happens
 
Sypher04 said:
Not even remotely
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Ok well then you're a homer. I was at the game and have followed his progress throughout last year very closely. He looked good with the marlies but he looks absolutely awful this pre-season. He doesn't look confident in the slightest.
 
biotk said:
Who cares? Remember a year ago when Marleau walked around Dahlin and went in uncontested? A whole bunch of people on here were saying that Dahlin was not ready for the NHL. Then Dahlin went on to play more than 21 minutes a game and be a finalist for the Calder. Mistakes in the pre-season mean absolutely nothing. Coaches are looking at how their lines, pairings and lineups look together. Players know where they stand with the team based on who they are playing with. This is not like it was 40 years ago. Teams know where all the players in their system are at long before training camp. They have put together development plans and decided where players are playing (both on the team, and elsewhere). Training camp and pre-season gives them a chance to see everyone together, but there is not a lot of movement up or down the depth chart.
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Not sure you helped your point by saying that mistakes in the preseason don't matter, when you're basing your praise on his play this preseason.

Babcock really likes Sandin and doesn't like Liljegren. Therefore, we all know who he will play.
 
Falon said:
Not sure you helped your point by saying that mistakes in the preseason don't matter, when you're basing your praise on his play this preseason.
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I am basing my praise on his play this preseason? Interesting, as on March 16th I said that Sandin would be in the lineup on opening day this season and I said that Liljegren would play some 3rd pairing games in 2020-21. And boy did I get a lot of hatred on here (of course, writers like Pronman and Wheeler have also been attacked for saying what people don't want to hear - Sandin is waaaaaayyyyyy ahead of Lily), so I haven't bothered to talk much on here about how good Sandin is while I was waiting for others to catch up to the obvious.

I have also made clear from a couple days before the first preseason game was played that the ranking for the third pair competition was roughly: Sandin - Harpur - Marincin - Schmaltz (with the first four mostly interchangeable) - Holl - Gravel (trying to catch that four) - Kivi - Lily (distantly hoping). It's mostly been ignored, but its been completely correct.
 
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AuraSphere said:
Ok well then you're a homer. I was at the game and have followed his progress throughout last year very closely. He looked good with the marlies but he looks absolutely awful this pre-season. He doesn't look confident in the slightest.
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this is such a hilarious way to debate, somebody doesnt agree with you and of course its because hes a "homer", clearly his opinion doesnt hold as much weight as yours.
tell me, how are you more qualified to have an opinion here than anybody else?
 
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djdev said:
this is such a hilarious way to debate, somebody doesnt agree with you and of course its because hes a "homer", clearly his opinion doesnt hold as much weight as yours.
tell me, how are you more qualified to have an opinion here than anybody else?
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It's not an opinion, its an obvious observation.

That's like saying its your opinion that Brett Lebda was bad but really he's a god. It's just a ridiculous statement. Kivihalme, Sandin and heck even Marincin have been out playing Liljegren. Babcock himself has said it so seriously, it is being a homer.

I hope lily pans out, but he really isn't doing that well this pre-season.
 
Orfieus said:
Sandin is standing out, Liljegren isn't. They are both playing solid hockey but Liljegren is playing more conservatively. Also helps Sandin is getting a LOT more ice time with a much better partner

I really hope Babcock plays Sandin - Liljegren for a game
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I think Liljegren has to play a bit more conservative vs Sandin given Sandins IQ. Sandin is a really smart player who pinches at the right time. He also has the skating ability to get back if not covered. I'm not sure Liljegren has the confidence yet to play that way.
 
AuraSphere said:
It's not an opinion, its an obvious observation.

That's like saying its your opinion that Brett Lebda was bad but really he's a god. It's just a ridiculous statement. Kivihalme, Sandin and heck even Marincin have been out playing Liljegren. Babcock himself has said it so seriously, it is being a homer.

I hope lily pans out, but he really isn't doing that well this pre-season.
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it certainly is an opinion, and people have the right to their own.
one side calls the other "homer" and is met with "hater" on the other side. neither is typically correct.
argue your opinion, thats clearly your right. but the homer argument is lazy and inaccurate.
 
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