Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

[stickty111]

Liljegren had a CF% near 70 in the playoffs, and faced some of the toughest competition in the playoffs. He was amazing.

 

[nobody]

I'm not quite sure where the Lilly talk is coming from because I watched the Marlies down the stretch and in the playoffs and Lilly was our best overall Dman by a good margin. I was also impressed by Sandin as well as Hollowell. Timmeh had a fantastic year for the marlies last year and I am one of the people who truly believe that he will stick with the Leafs this year either from the beginning or as a call up not too long into the season.

I also believe we could see Sandin get some playing time as well. Specially if he gets stronger and quicker this offseason. He reminds me of a young Anton Stralman.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

He'll be with the Leafs by the end of the year.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Babs is already drooling lol never heard a coach talk so much about lefty-righty pairings in all my years lol

Which is weird seeing as how he went 5 or 6 straight years in Detroit with all leftys playing.

 

[Nylander88]

Which is weird seeing as how he went 5 or 6 straight years in Detroit with all leftys playing.

I like the guy overall, but sometimes i think he looks for excuses too often

 

[biotk]

Those numbers combined from the 1st half. His numbers are good in the 2nd half and the playoffs.
The lies to make him look like the worst prospect of all time are beyond delusional.

As I think it was @TheGoldenJet mentioned, when Lilly came back from injury, he was great defensively but he was still trying to get his skating back to form, it came back about a month after returning.
Since March 6th, Lilly posted 7 points in 16 regular season games(4 ES, 3 PP), plus 5 assists in 13 playoff games(3 ES, 2 PP).

Those are the great numbers you are referring to? Even going with the artificial start date designed to boost Liljegren 4 ES points in 16 games is a pace of 20.5 in 82 games.

Rosen's ES point pace was 41 over 82 games (and that is for the whole year, not picking a specific game to start with to make him look better).
Dermott's ES point pace the year he was called up was 35 over 82 games. And he was called up after getting 12 points in 8 games (with only three of those 12 on the PP).
Holl's ES point pace the year he was called up to play a couple games was 36.
Carrick, back in 2016 was pacing for 32 at ES.
Sandin this year produced at a 30 ES point pace (almost double Liljegren for either year).
Borgman was at a 29 ES point pace last year and 26 the year before.
Marincin 27 in 2017/18
Nielsen was dumped by the Leafs after two seasons in which he paced for 21 and 23 ES points.
Valiev was traded while putting up a 29 ES point pace.

There is really almost no one who has been less productive at ES. Two consecutive seasons 17 ES points per 82 in both. D drafted in his draft year who played in the AHL all paced higher:

Valimaki 37, Jokiharju 30 at the high end and even Foote and Fleury 19 each (at the low end).

But people think it is likely he is going to make to the NHL next year because points are now irrelevant (although just a year ago points were the most important thing when bragging about Liljegren).

Here is Keefe talking about Liljegren and Sandin:

"When I asked Keefe when he knows a player is ready to make the jump and never look back, he said he looks for the players that “take over the game.”​

“It’s a sign that they have developed to the point where they need a new challenge,” he said. “When there is ups and downs and inconsistencies, I think it’s more of a sign that you can see potential, but you have to continue to work at things.”

He pointed to Trevor Moore as the most recent player who was dominating at the AHL level. Travis Dermott was one before him.

Neither Liljegren or Sandin are taking over the game at the moment. They show you flashes of their potential, but they also make mistakes, which is normal for prospects who are still developing. They both just need time to make their mistakes in the AHL, and when they get to the point where they are dominating the game like Dermott did last year"

 

[biotk]

Liljegren had a CF% near 70 in the playoffs, and faced some of the toughest competition in the playoffs. He was amazing.

No one should believe this. I am a big fan of Jeff and taking this on – doing it by hand – is an incredible task, but there is bias in CF – I attempted to track it myself at one time and found that there was too much gray area to be able to realistically track it when it comes to players I favour or dislike. Jeff loves Liljegren. Loves him a whole lot. Has long complained that the criticisms of Liljegren were unfair. That is great. That is what fans should do, but unless the team releases their own numbers we have to rely of Jeff's. Liljegren has consistently had a GF% below 50% and yet he has consistently had a CF% above 60%. The year before 60%+ CF%. This fall on November 24th, a lot of people who were watching the games were saying that Liljegren was really struggling. But at the same time that was countered by people saying that couldn't possibly be true because his CF% was around 60% for the season so far while going up against top competition (again Jeffs numbers). His GF% however was below 50% (and remember – Keefe said after the season that Liljegren was not good during this period). Comes back from injury – lets just go to the March start date you like and go for the rest of the season – CF% around 60% - GF% less than 50%.
Then we have the playoffs during which it was claimed that Liljegren’s CF% was near 70% - higher than the rest of the Marlies D by a pretty decent margin - and reportedly above 50% every single game.

GF% at 5v5 for the 4 Marlies D who played every playoff game:
LoVerde: 60.0%
Borgman: 58.8%
Sandin: 57.9%
Liljegren: 43.7%

This doesn’t happen – a really high CF% (and Liljegren’s *was* ridiculously high) with a low GF% - I mean sure it happens over 5 to 8 game stretches here and there – but apparently it happened all season long for Liljegren. In the playoffs despite being so dominated when Liljegren was on the ice his opponents managed to score more than 56% of the goals on just over 30% of the shot attempts – and the rest of the season was only slightly less bizarre. No one should believe it.

That doesn’t mean that I think that Liljegren is a bad possession player – just as I don’t think he is “the worst prospect of all time” like you claim I do. Amazingly, thinking that Liljegren is the second best prospect in the organization (behind Sandin) but that he is likely little more than a 3rd pairing D who on occasion can cover as a #4 means he is the worst prospect of all time.

And here is the actual quote from Dubas in December (in which you agree with people who say that Dubas said he was going to be on the team last season):

“It’s really unfortunate because he’d been having an excellent season with the Marlies (we all know that wasn’t true now, right? At the time this quote was spoken Liljegren hadn’t been having a good season, let alone an excellent one): first pair, first power play (really? Was he playing on the first PP? – seems everyone knows that wasn’t true either), first penalty kill, producing well (producing well? We all seem to now agree that wasn’t true as well, right?). Regardless of the Sweden world junior element, it’s disappointing for us because he’s a right-shot defenceman and he moves the puck very well,” said Dubas, before dropping an eyebrow-raiser. “So we’re looking for him to move it and challenge here this season.” (the GM wants a player to improve and challenge for a spot on the big team….shocking).

 

[DarkKnight]

No one should believe this. I am a big fan of Jeff and taking this on – doing it by hand – is an incredible task, but there is bias in CF – I attempted to track it myself at one time and found that there was too much gray area to be able to realistically track it when it comes to players I favour or dislike. Jeff loves Liljegren. Loves him a whole lot. Has long complained that the criticisms of Liljegren were unfair. That is great. That is what fans should do, but unless the team releases their own numbers we have to rely of Jeff's. Liljegren has consistently had a GF% below 50% and yet he has consistently had a CF% above 60%. The year before 60%+ CF%. This fall on November 24th, a lot of people who were watching the games were saying that Liljegren was really struggling. But at the same time that was countered by people saying that couldn't possibly be true because his CF% was around 60% for the season so far while going up against top competition (again Jeffs numbers). His GF% however was below 50% (and remember – Keefe said after the season that Liljegren was not good during this period). Comes back from injury – lets just go to the March start date you like and go for the rest of the season – CF% around 60% - GF% less than 50%.
Then we have the playoffs during which it was claimed that Liljegren’s CF% was near 70% - higher than the rest of the Marlies D by a pretty decent margin - and reportedly above 50% every single game.

GF% at 5v5 for the 4 Marlies D who played every playoff game:
LoVerde: 60.0%
Borgman: 58.8%
Sandin: 57.9%
Liljegren: 43.7%

This doesn’t happen – a really high CF% (and Liljegren’s *was* ridiculously high) with a low GF% - I mean sure it happens over 5 to 8 game stretches here and there – but apparently it happened all season long for Liljegren. In the playoffs despite being so dominated when Liljegren was on the ice his opponents managed to score more than 56% of the goals on just over 30% of the shot attempts – and the rest of the season was only slightly less bizarre. No one should believe it.

That doesn’t mean that I think that Liljegren is a bad possession player – just as I don’t think he is “the worst prospect of all time” like you claim I do. Amazingly, thinking that Liljegren is the second best prospect in the organization (behind Sandin) but that he is likely little more than a 3rd pairing D who on occasion can cover as a #4 means he is the worst prospect of all time.

And here is the actual quote from Dubas in December (in which you agree with people who say that Dubas said he was going to be on the team last season):

“It’s really unfortunate because he’d been having an excellent season with the Marlies (we all know that wasn’t true now, right? At the time this quote was spoken Liljegren hadn’t been having a good season, let alone an excellent one): first pair, first power play (really? Was he playing on the first PP? – seems everyone knows that wasn’t true either), first penalty kill, producing well (producing well? We all seem to now agree that wasn’t true as well, right?). Regardless of the Sweden world junior element, it’s disappointing for us because he’s a right-shot defenceman and he moves the puck very well,” said Dubas, before dropping an eyebrow-raiser. “So we’re looking for him to move it and challenge here this season.” (the GM wants a player to improve and challenge for a spot on the big team….shocking).

Just to clarify the Dubas comments when Lil was injured, Keefe interview end of season said prior to injury Lil “was probably getting more minutes than his play deserved”. Keefe went on to say Lil had a strong finish to the season and playoffs, but it was fascinating to have him admit Lil wasn’t playing well at the same time Dubas made the tire pumping comments. Posters routinely point to Dubas, but clearly it wasn’t based on play merit, and I don’t think there was a disconnect between GM and coach on his progress. Dubas was just elevating a prospect, Keefe admitted as such and it matched what many saw at the time, which made Kyle’s comment strange.

 

[biotk]

Just to clarify the Dubas comments when Lil was injured, Keefe interview end of season said prior to injury Lil “was probably getting more minutes than his play deserved”. Keefe went on to say Lil had a strong finish to the season and playoffs, but it was fascinating to have him admit Lil wasn’t playing well at the same time Dubas made the tire pumping comments. Posters routinely point to Dubas, but clearly it wasn’t based on play merit, and I don’t think there was a disconnect between GM and coach on his progress. Dubas was just elevating a prospect, Keefe admitted as such and it matched what many saw at the time, which made Kyle’s comment strange.

I agree with this completely.

 

[TheDoldrums]

No one should believe this. I am a big fan of Jeff and taking this on – doing it by hand – is an incredible task, but there is bias in CF – I attempted to track it myself at one time and found that there was too much gray area to be able to realistically track it when it comes to players I favour or dislike.

I commend on admitting to your biases overwhelming your capability to accurately record events, but I really don't think that's a common thing. Seems like a big accusation about a guy who seems to be trying to make a career out of this. Pretty risky for him to put that on the line to pump Liljegren.

I did read the rest of the post but your argument would be far more effective if you managed to track a game yourself and compared the data, instead of just speculating. I think we've seen enough Jake Gardiner to understand a player can do well in Corsi and poor in the eye test among fans.

 

[Falon]

Timothy Liljegren is a great prospect. Sadly, he has missed significant development time over the past three seasons. I firmly believe that he will continue to develop into a top 4 NHL player. It will however, take longer than anyone seems to want. First thing to keep in mind is that he is not only 20. He has been playing against men for the past two years, but has only played half the time. He will need another full season with the Marlies, and only then might he be ready for the #6 spot. Most defensemen don't enter the NHL until two full years in the AHL and Liljegren has only played a little over one.

 

[zeke]

Just to clarify the Dubas comments when Lil was injured, Keefe interview end of season said prior to injury Lil “was probably getting more minutes than his play deserved”. Keefe went on to say Lil had a strong finish to the season and playoffs, but it was fascinating to have him admit Lil wasn’t playing well at the same time Dubas made the tire pumping comments. Posters routinely point to Dubas, but clearly it wasn’t based on play merit, and I don’t think there was a disconnect between GM and coach on his progress. Dubas was just elevating a prospect, Keefe admitted as such and it matched what many saw at the time, which made Kyle’s comment strange.

Quote? Are you talking about one of these? If so, you're being misleading.

Here's Keefe June 6:

Sheldon Keefe: “Liljegren coming back from his injury the way he did and blossoming and being such a responsible and reliable defensive player to go with the offensive attributes he has, that helped us tremendously.”

May 27:

Keefe acknowledged he was a bit surprised Sandin adjusted as well as he did to his first season in the AHL

“I would say so,” Keefe said. “We had (Timothy) Liljegren last season so we have been through this scenario a little bit, but with Liljegren last year we had such depth on defence as a team that we were able to protect him and ease him in and give him some days off.

“This season we didn’t have that same level of depth. We relied on Sandin and Liljegren both more than we probably would have wanted to, or more than we had planned on, but they dealt with it very well.”

May 28:

Keefe on next fall for Liljegren/Sandin: “They’re very young guys so I don’t think it’s appropriate or fair to put any expectations on them other than to give them an opportunity to show where they’re at. The development of both of those players was really a launching point."

“Timothy Liljegren just finished his 19-year-old season and has already completed seven playoff series at the professional level. Not a lot of players can say that. It’s just a matter of when the timing and the opportunity is right for both.”

April 30:

The quality of their play, says Marlies coach Sheldon Keefe, is a big reason the Marlies made the Calder Cup playoffs, much less advanced to the second round, which begins Wednesday night against the Cleveland Monsters at the Coca-Cola Coliseum.

“The guys have proven to be capable,” Keefe said. “I’ve said it before that, certainly in Sandin’s and Liljegren’s case ... if not for their development and their ability to take on extra responsibility throughout the season, we’re probably not even playing in the playoffs. Those guys are huge parts of our team.”

“Sandin, Liljegren and Hollowell are not the biggest guys, but all three have the ability to move the puck very well and very efficiently. The better we distribute the puck among our team, it means we will defend a little bit less,” Keefe said. “If we can defend less, it’s an advantage for us. At the same time, when it does come time to defend, I think Liljegren has been as good as any guy we’ve had.
“There are no easy shifts. He’s defended really well. Broke up a lot of rushes. His body positioning has been great. Sandin’s been good at that as well. Hollowell has done a good job of knowing his spots.”

And march 14:

Marlies bench boss Sheldon Keefe describes the injury as “a huge setback,” noting the ankle needed three more weeks to be game-ready than initially projected. A one-game conditioning stint to ECHL Newfoundland actually resulted in another tweak to the joint while skating with the Growlers.

When Liljegren returned healthy in February, Keefe paired him with countryman and fellow first-rounder Rasmus Sandin. Rosen and minor-league lifer Vincent LoVerde, 29, now draw the opponents’ toughest offensive lines.

“It was a lot too soon for him,” says Keefe, who believes the off-ice work Liljegren invested should have long-term dividends. “We think he’s in a really good place, and we’ve really liked his game since he’s been back.”

Naturally, there’s still plenty of space to grow. Instructions to shout.

Keefe wants to see Liljegren sharpen into a power-play threat, both shooting and distributing. His puck-carrying and breakouts can improve. Eleven points through 31 games is more than respectable, but there’s more to untap.

“Overall, he needs to play — and play a lot. And he needs to stay healthy. He needs that to get confidence and find some rhythm. We really like the progress he’s made defensively, defending against the rush especially. He kills a lot of plays early,” says Keefe, encouraging creativity.

“In the defensive zone, he’s done a nice job. For a guy with his skill set, we want to see him blossom offensively. The power play is a big part of that.”

None of this sounds anything like what you told us Keefe said about Liljegren. In fact quite the opposite - it sure sounds to me like Keefe is saying that Lilly was the best defensive dman on the team and deserves a real chance to make the leafs In the fall.

 

[DarkKnight]

Quote? Are you talking about one of these? If so, you're being misleading.

Here's Keefe June 6:



May 27:



May 28:



April 30:



And march 14:






None of this sounds anything like what you told us Keefe said about Liljegren. In fact quite the opposite - it sure sounds to me like Keefe is saying that Lilly was the best defensive dman on the team and deserves a real chance to make the leafs In the fall.

You didn’t believe me when I said Babcock felt he had had a poor rookie tourney prior to camp last year either. Do your own homework, Keefe said it and I don’t lie. You’ve never been able to handle anything but the most positive about Lil since he was drafted when you thought he’d actually make the team. It’s not my fault you always jump the gun on kids normal development. You just see what you want. Enjoy.

Btw, go look at the very first post of this thread and you’ve found your answer, Keefe clearly saying he was bad prior to the injury. Deal with it. And for a guy wrong so often lose the offence.

As an aside, Lil is right where he should be in terms of development, and it looks like he will follow the Dermott curve just like I’ve argued and you’ve criticized. Reality always wins these silly debates in the end.

 

[zeke]

You didn’t believe me when I said Babcock felt he had had a poor rookie tourney prior to camp last year either. Do your own homework, Keefe said it and I don’t lie. You’ve never been able to handle anything but the most positive about Lil since he was drafted when you thought he’d actually make the team. It’s not my fault you always jump the gun on kids normal development. You just see what you want. Enjoy.

Btw, go look at the very first post of this thread and you’ve found your answer, Keefe clearly saying he was bad prior to the injury. Deal with it. And for a guy wrong so often lose the offence.

As an aside, Lil is right where he should be in terms of development, and it looks like he will follow the Dermott curve just like I’ve argued and you’ve criticized. Reality always wins these silly debates in the end.

So we're all agreed that Keefe thinks he's excellent at the AHL level, deserves a shot at the big club this fall, and is a full 2 years ahead of Dermott's development curve?

Good.

 

[Orfieus]

Sandin is obviously the better, more polished prospect.

Not sure why some posters tend to use that against Liljegren. We have both.

I like to see prospects as cups which demonstrates their potential, the bigger the cup the more potential they have. How filled the cup is their on-ice performance

Sandin has the bigger cup then Liljegren (how much bigger is up for debate)
But there is no question Liljegren cup is filled higher right now

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I like to see prospects as cups which demonstrates their potential, the bigger the cup the more potential they have. How filled the cup is their on-ice performance

Sandin has the bigger cup then Liljegren (how much bigger is up for debate)
But there is no question Liljegren cup is filled higher right now

Bigger cup?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

In past seasons playoffs.
Sandin was by far the best defense in series 1 and 2.
Lily was by far our best defense in series 3 which we lost.
What I learned watching every game and most live was Sandin is so so skilled against bigger meaner teams but against a team just as skilled/fast as him he gave up the puck far far too often and many of his passes were intercepted. He needs to work on his game because he did not dominate against the best of the AHL. In fact he was dominated.
Lily's first 2 series he was not as effective. But he also played 2nd fiddle on ice time so we did not get a true picture i believe. In 3rd series he got more ice and he played very well defensively. Best I have seen of him defensively in AHL. He plays best when he plays a steady simple game. What I really love about Lily is his ability to skate puck up ice when required. What he needs to work on is his balance. He can be easily knocked around in his own end by a heavier team. In the NHL I fear this will be his downfall. Again I just don't think he is physically ready to play in NHL yet.
As I have said neither guy is NHL ready yet which is why Leafs will give them both big minutes in AHL this upcoming season. and it is why we picked up a few defense over past month.

 

[stickty111]

Like I said, Liljegren had a CF% near 70 in the playoffs, and faced some of the toughest competition in the playoffs. He was amazing.

 

[stickty111]

So we're all agreed that Keefe thinks he's excellent at the AHL level, deserves a shot at the big club this fall, and is a full 2 years ahead of Dermott's development curve?

Good.

He is the same poster who thought Liljegren was "lackluster" in training camp.
I wouldn't really bother.

 

[stickty111]

Quote? Are you talking about one of these? If so, you're being misleading.

Here's Keefe June 6:



May 27:



May 28:



April 30:



And march 14:






None of this sounds anything like what you told us Keefe said about Liljegren. In fact quite the opposite - it sure sounds to me like Keefe is saying that Lilly was the best defensive dman on the team and deserves a real chance to make the leafs In the fall.

It's hilarious. The people that want Lilly to fail are using quotes to fit a narrative, and completely ignore the other quotes that praise Lilly.

 

[stickty111]

Those are the great numbers you are referring to? Even going with the artificial start date designed to boost Liljegren 4 ES points in 16 games is a pace of 20.5 in 82 games.

Rosen's ES point pace was 41 over 82 games (and that is for the whole year, not picking a specific game to start with to make him look better).
Dermott's ES point pace the year he was called up was 35 over 82 games. And he was called up after getting 12 points in 8 games (with only three of those 12 on the PP).
Holl's ES point pace the year he was called up to play a couple games was 36.
Carrick, back in 2016 was pacing for 32 at ES.
Sandin this year produced at a 30 ES point pace (almost double Liljegren for either year).
Borgman was at a 29 ES point pace last year and 26 the year before.
Marincin 27 in 2017/18
Nielsen was dumped by the Leafs after two seasons in which he paced for 21 and 23 ES points.
Valiev was traded while putting up a 29 ES point pace.

There is really almost no one who has been less productive at ES. Two consecutive seasons 17 ES points per 82 in both. D drafted in his draft year who played in the AHL all paced higher:

Valimaki 37, Jokiharju 30 at the high end and even Foote and Fleury 19 each (at the low end).

But people think it is likely he is going to make to the NHL next year because points are now irrelevant (although just a year ago points were the most important thing when bragging about Liljegren).

Here is Keefe talking about Liljegren and Sandin:

"When I asked Keefe when he knows a player is ready to make the jump and never look back, he said he looks for the players that “take over the game.”​

“It’s a sign that they have developed to the point where they need a new challenge,” he said. “When there is ups and downs and inconsistencies, I think it’s more of a sign that you can see potential, but you have to continue to work at things.”

He pointed to Trevor Moore as the most recent player who was dominating at the AHL level. Travis Dermott was one before him.

Neither Liljegren or Sandin are taking over the game at the moment. They show you flashes of their potential, but they also make mistakes, which is normal for prospects who are still developing. They both just need time to make their mistakes in the AHL, and when they get to the point where they are dominating the game like Dermott did last year"

But people think it is unlikely he is going to make to the NHL next year because points are now relevent (although just a year ago points were the leastimportant thing when hating about Liljegren).

Here is Keefe talking about Liljegren and Sandin:

"When I asked Keefe when he knows a player is ready to make the jump and never look back, he said he looks for the players that “take over the game.”
“It’s a sign that they have developed to the point where they need a new challenge,” he said. “When there is ups and downs and inconsistencies, I think it’s more of a sign that you can see potential, but you have to continue to work at things.”

He pointed to Trevor Moore as the most recent player who was dominating at the AHL level. Travis Dermott was one before him.

Neither Liljegren or Sandin are taking over the game at the moment. They show you flashes of their potential, but they also make mistakes, which is normal for prospects who are still developing. They both just need time to make their mistakes in the AHL, and when they get to the point where they are dominating the game like Dermott did last year"
It's a nice quote. There are also quotes saying he was terrific but ignore that.

 

[DarkKnight]

So we're all agreed that Keefe thinks he's excellent at the AHL level, deserves a shot at the big club this fall, and is a full 2 years ahead of Dermott's development curve?

Good.

We agree I’ve been right for two years, you keep moving the goalposts. #freelil

You got nothing...tick tock

 

[stickty111]

No one should believe this. I am a big fan of Jeff and taking this on – doing it by hand – is an incredible task, but there is bias in CF – I attempted to track it myself at one time and found that there was too much gray area to be able to realistically track it when it comes to players I favour or dislike. Jeff loves Liljegren. Loves him a whole lot. Has long complained that the criticisms of Liljegren were unfair. That is great. That is what fans should do, but unless the team releases their own numbers we have to rely of Jeff's. Liljegren has consistently had a GF% below 50% and yet he has consistently had a CF% above 60%. The year before 60%+ CF%. This fall on November 24th, a lot of people who were watching the games were saying that Liljegren was really struggling. But at the same time that was countered by people saying that couldn't possibly be true because his CF% was around 60% for the season so far while going up against top competition (again Jeffs numbers). His GF% however was below 50% (and remember – Keefe said after the season that Liljegren was not good during this period). Comes back from injury – lets just go to the March start date you like and go for the rest of the season – CF% around 60% - GF% less than 50%.
Then we have the playoffs during which it was claimed that Liljegren’s CF% was near 70% - higher than the rest of the Marlies D by a pretty decent margin - and reportedly above 50% every single game.

GF% at 5v5 for the 4 Marlies D who played every playoff game:
LoVerde: 60.0%
Borgman: 58.8%
Sandin: 57.9%
Liljegren: 43.7%

This doesn’t happen – a really high CF% (and Liljegren’s *was* ridiculously high) with a low GF% - I mean sure it happens over 5 to 8 game stretches here and there – but apparently it happened all season long for Liljegren. In the playoffs despite being so dominated when Liljegren was on the ice his opponents managed to score more than 56% of the goals on just over 30% of the shot attempts – and the rest of the season was only slightly less bizarre. No one should believe it.

That doesn’t mean that I think that Liljegren is a bad possession player – just as I don’t think he is “the worst prospect of all time” like you claim I do. Amazingly, thinking that Liljegren is the second best prospect in the organization (behind Sandin) but that he is likely little more than a 3rd pairing D who on occasion can cover as a #4 means he is the worst prospect of all time.

And here is the actual quote from Dubas in December (in which you agree with people who say that Dubas said he was going to be on the team last season):

“It’s really unfortunate because he’d been having an excellent season with the Marlies (we all know that wasn’t true now, right? At the time this quote was spoken Liljegren hadn’t been having a good season, let alone an excellent one): first pair, first power play (really? Was he playing on the first PP? – seems everyone knows that wasn’t true either), first penalty kill, producing well (producing well? We all seem to now agree that wasn’t true as well, right?). Regardless of the Sweden world junior element, it’s disappointing for us because he’s a right-shot defenceman and he moves the puck very well,” said Dubas, before dropping an eyebrow-raiser. “So we’re looking for him to move it and challenge here this season.” (the GM wants a player to improve and challenge for a spot on the big team….shocking).

Everyone should believe this as its actual stats. You don't believe the stats but thats your stance.
You can make up stats like GF% to fit the narrative, but I will look at stats that matter.
Good thing we have Dubas and Keefe quotes praising him in this season, and not people's comments who think he is the worst prospect of all time.
Shocker.
Lilly was great. Thats a fact.

 

[DarkKnight]

He is the same poster who thought Liljegren was "lackluster" in training camp.
I wouldn't really bother.

This from the poster who thought he would make it out of camp last year. Sigh.. Oh, and two camps ago for those keeping score, you would get pissed when he didn’t even play much preseason, as I told you would be the case, given how far away he was... I mean, you accusing others of having agendas and narratives is like a skunk telling you you stink. Self awareness, LOW.

I love Lil as a prospect. Just because I haven’t been on the pumper bandwagon when he clearly wasn’t ready doesn’t equate to dislike. He’s right on track and will get a good look at camp.

Anyways, so far I’ve been spot on, suspect he gets a sniff mid season this year, anything beyond that a bonus. Full time next year, Sandin gets a long look as well.

 

[Nylander88]

Huge hole at right side 3rd pairing if he comes ready. Still think a cheap vet will be brought in when marner is sorted out. But as of right now, you have to be licking your chops if you're Lilly