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Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

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I think we have 2 real nice defenseman in our system in these 2 but it is best to wait and see what you have as well. We're unlikely to hurt their development by keeping them down there but bringing them up before they're ready would be silly. I trust the development staff to make the right decision.
 
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Some don’t seem to compute the Dermott model. Dermott was drafted two years earlier than Lil. Dermott was with the big club the second half of his third post draft season. Recall heading into his third camp (same as Lil) there was plenty of talk he could make the team. He had a decent camp but was sent to the AHL and completely dominated, then getting the call second half. Lil is entering this third camp, with similar expectations as Dermott. Note as well the team clearly has made moves to secure enough D to not necessarily need a “kid” to make it. The realistic scenario is Lil doesn’t crack the team out to camp and returns to the AHL, if everything goes well he gets a call up. Just like? You guessed it.

Does Lil not look like Dermott two years ago heading into camp? Where is the advanced progress that we didn’t see with Dermott? Dermott spent his first post draft year in junior, Lil in the A. Second year both the same league.

I don’t get why it’s sacrilege to see a similar growth, unless of course you were actually arguing that Lil would make it in 2017, which seems to be the common theme amongst the stubborn. Admit you’re wrong, move on, nothing to be so insecure about.
 
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It's mostly people's expectations based on his draft position prior to the draft and that prospects should all be top line players immediately or bust
 
bbgobie said:
It's mostly people's expectations based on his draft position prior to the draft and that prospects should all be top line players immediately or bust
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I know, are we really going to complain Lilly becomes a 30-35 2 way top 4 D man instead of a 45 point offensive d man.
I could care less about his offensive numbers. His defensive game has come a long way and thats the biggest thing of his development. His even strength numbers are okay anyways.
 
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Agreed a dman must do the job defensively against all types of teams who play a variety of ways. They will both get callups this season and a better assessment can be made regarding their progress. The key for both Lily and Sandin this season will be dominating AHL games no matter the opponent. If they dominate AHL games then they will earn their callups. From what I have seen neither has qualified yet but I have hope for both.
 
DarkKnight said:
We agree I’ve been right for two years, you keep moving the goalposts. #freelil

You got nothing...tick tock
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Yes, this is correct. DarkKnight and I were also at complete odds about Liljegren for the first year and half after Liljegren was drafted. DK was 100% right, and was pretty much the only one who was.
 
stickty111 said:
Everyone should believe this as its actual stats. You don't believe the stats but thats your stance.
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It's not the actual stats. It is stats recorded by one guy who probably has (pre-dating his corsi tracking days) the most pro-Liljegren bias on the planet. Have you tried taking corsi before? A lot of it is not black and white. Statistics in the NHL for things like hits are not consistent between different arenas...but the corsi stats tracked by one guy are gospel.

You can make up stats like GF% to fit the narrative, but I will look at stats that matter.
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Made up? The stats kept the AHL as to who was on the ice when goals were scored are made up. But the corsi tracked by one guy are gospel.

Good thing we have Dubas and Keefe quotes praising him in this season
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Yes, the quote from Dubas where he said things that even you have admitted were not true.
 
With all the talk about Liljegren being a massive steal at the time of the draft, people quickly seemed to forget that we got him 17th overall. I feel like he's been held to the standard of a top 5 pick rather than a mid first rounder. He's progressed at least as well as everyone within that range (maybe with the exception of Brannstrom) and there aren't really any players taken after him that I'd consider trading him for at this point.
 
DarkKnight said:
Some don’t seem to compute the Dermott model. Dermott was drafted two years earlier than Lil. Dermott was with the big club the second half of his third post draft season. Recall heading into his third camp (same as Lil) there was plenty of talk he could make the team. He had a decent camp but was sent to the AHL and completely dominated, then getting the call second half. Lil is entering this third camp, with similar expectations as Dermott. Note as well the team clearly has made moves to secure enough D to not necessarily need a “kid” to make it. The realistic scenario is Lil doesn’t crack the team out to camp and returns to the AHL, if everything goes well he gets a call up. Just like? You guessed it.

Does Lil not look like Dermott two years ago heading into camp? Where is the advanced progress that we didn’t see with Dermott? Dermott spent his first post draft year in junior, Lil in the A. Second year both the same league.

I don’t get why it’s sacrilege to see a similar growth, unless of course you were actually arguing that Lil would make it in 2017, which seems to be the common theme amongst the stubborn. Admit you’re wrong, move on, nothing to be so insecure about.
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Not sure what you're struggling with here.

Lilly at 19 was at the same point in development as Dermott aged 21.

Not surprising - it's why he was picked so much higher.
 
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The quote by Keefe on overdrive after the 2nd round. This indicates Dubas was not just tire pumping. Lilly certainly struggled in the 1st month of the season, but November he was really good and got injured at the wrong time. When he came back, his skating seemed off but he was great defensively. March on, the skating returned to form.
This is all evident in the possession numbers by Jeffler, and it's not biased numbers as a certain poster said. From the games I tracked, my eye test and data also matched Jeff's numbers too.
Clearly, those numbers by the other poster were inaccurate. It's too bad some people make up numbers just because they can't admit they were wrong.
 
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stickty111 said:
The quote by Keefe on overdrive after the 2nd round. This indicates Dubas was not just tire pumping. Lilly certainly struggled in the 1st month of the season, but November he was really good and got injured at the wrong time. When he came back, his skating seemed off but he was great defensively. March on, the skating returned to form.
This is all evident in the possession numbers by Jeffler, and it's not biased numbers as a certain poster said. From the games I tracked, my eye test and data also matched Jeff's numbers too.
Clearly, those numbers by the other poster were inaccurate. It's too bad some people make up numbers just because they can't admit they were wrong.
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He's a gamer. Was ranked #1 pre draft for a time. Always been a gamer but as many D, they just need time and refinement. He is good to go already IMHO but I am pretty sure they want to dance around Seattle if at all possible.
 
biotk said:
Yes, this is correct. DarkKnight and I were also at complete odds about Liljegren for the first year and half after Liljegren was drafted. DK was 100% right, and was pretty much the only one who was.
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And I’m wrong a ton.

We can all agree he looks a keeper.
 
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biotk said:
It's not the actual stats. It is stats recorded by one guy who probably has (pre-dating his corsi tracking days) the most pro-Liljegren bias on the planet. Have you tried taking corsi before? A lot of it is not black and white. Statistics in the NHL for things like hits are not consistent between different arenas...but the corsi stats tracked by one guy are gospel.



Made up? The stats kept the AHL as to who was on the ice when goals were scored are made up. But the corsi tracked by one guy are gospel.



Yes, the quote from Dubas where he said things that even you have admitted were not true.
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How about the quote on the OP that suggests him being great?
Are you going to ignore that? Or are you going to pretend it's just to tire pump him?
If thats the case, I can claim your quote from Keefe doesn't mean anything.

Can we agree Lilly might not be a top pairing guy, but is developing well, and improved defensively, but the offensive numbers need to improve?
 
I think both sides are being a little dramatic in the Dermott/Liljegren debate. Other than age/comp they're relatively similar prospects at the same stage in development.

Liljegren was 4+ months younger when drafted. Doesn't seem like a lot, but it's been proven that's actually important at 18 and even more important if someone has a late birthday like Dermott - who's always been "ahead" of the rest of his draft class.

I'd say after their respective D+2 seasons, Liljegren is/was well ahead of Dermott. Much more impressive for Liljegren to dominate the AHL at 19 for most of the season than Dermott to dominate at 20. But, that's not taking anything away from Dermott as he was very impressive at this point in his career and tracking very well into being a top-4 D. Liljegren is just doing better/more at a more impressive age.
 
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thewave said:
He's a gamer. Was ranked #1 pre draft for a time. Always been a gamer but as many D, they just need time and refinement. He is good to go already IMHO but I am pretty sure they want to dance around Seattle if at all possible.
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I will agree with @biotk that the numbers need to improve, but the play has been very good though.
I agree he is NHL ready at least from a defensive stand point or at least close to it.
 
Morgs said:
I think both sides are being a little dramatic in the Dermott/Liljegren debate. Other than age/comp they're relatively similar prospects at the same stage in development.

Liljegren was 4+ months younger when drafted. Doesn't seem like a lot, but it's been proven that's actually important at 18 and even more important if someone has a late birthday like Dermott - who's always been "ahead" of the rest of his draft class.

I'd say after their respective D+2 seasons, Liljegren is/was well ahead of Dermott. Much more impressive for Liljegren to dominate the AHL at 19 for most of the season than Dermott to dominate at 20. But, that's not taking anything away from Dermott as he was very impressive at this point in his career and tracking very well into being a top-4 D. Liljegren is just doing better/more at a more impressive age.
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Nice of Morgs to bring a little balance.
The only negative thing that is preventing Lilly from totally getting by Dermott is the production.
 
If worse comes to worse, I can see Liljegren developing into a Hainsey type defensman. A reliable defender that can move the puck. He'll be in the NHL for a while, and likely in the #3-#4 mold. Hoping for better though ;) .
 
stickty111 said:
I will agree with @biotk that the numbers need to improve, but the play has been very good though.
I agree he is NHL ready at least from a defensive stand point or at least close to it.
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He is going to be a player that improves from playing with better talent in the NHL. Hold me to it down the line.
 
I think he will get some games this year with the big boys.

Waa really impressed with some AHL games I caught in the playoffs.
 
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