Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

[Rare Jewel]

Lilly has played his last game as a marlie IMO

Possibly, but I think there's still a lot of value for him to play 20+ minutes a game for Marlies still. Also offensively there's still room for growth.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Possibly, but I think there's still a lot of value for him to play 20+ minutes a game for Marlies still. Also offensively there's still room for growth.

Careful, thinking Liljegren won’t be a top-4 dman at some point next year (so ~20mins in NHL) gets you ignored by some posters around here. Because if he doesn’t that would then hit 3yrs since his draft to be a top 4 NHL dman, and saying it would take 4-5 years to be top-4 after the draft is unfathomable and troll-worthy.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Careful, thinking Liljegren won’t be a top-4 dman at some point next year (so ~20mins in NHL) gets you ignored by some posters around here. Because if he doesn’t that would then hit 3yrs since his draft to be a top 4 NHL dman, and saying it would take 4-5 years to be top-4 after the draft is unfathomable and troll-worthy.

Well, ok.

I guess some have him down as one of the RHDs for next season and he'll have chance in camp. But as long as he's waiver exempt, there shouldn't be a big issue with having him develop further down there.

 

[TheScandal89]

Lilly has played his last game as a marlie IMO

Hopefully but lets see what happens, we don't wanna stralman him. His cap hit might force him to be on the team though.

 

[Pyromaniac]

Careful, thinking Liljegren won’t be a top-4 dman at some point next year (so ~20mins in NHL) gets you ignored by some posters around here. Because if he doesn’t that would then hit 3yrs since his draft to be a top 4 NHL dman, and saying it would take 4-5 years to be top-4 after the draft is unfathomable and troll-worthy.

Nope but saying that he wouldn't even a sniff a roster spot in 4-5 years was absolutely troll worthy. The poster in question is employing some revisionist history to make his original predictions sound less outrageous. If he had originally said that it would take 4 years for Liljegren to become a top 4 defenseman, he would take zero heat for it because it is not at all a controversial opinion, in fact it would be a fairly optimistic outlook for the #17 pick in the draft.

I remember the entire debate quite clearly. Considering our lack of RHD depth and the quality of prospect Liljegren was when he was drafted, many expected him to make the roster sooner rather than later. There was a small contingent of fans who always thought that he was 'not even close', this was proven wrong by Kyle Dubas' comments earlier in the year that Liljegren was close to a call-up. It immediately tore through the narrative that he was 4-5 years away.

Not surprised that this poster now refuses to own his lack of judgement. Just like his assertion that this Marlies squad was as good as they are because of vets. Its a pattern of behaviour common to his posts on this forum, usually involves taking an illogical stand, getting called out on it and then refusing to take ownership or admit to ones own lack of research or judgement.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Nope but saying that he wouldn't even a sniff a roster spot in 4-5 years was absolutely troll worthy. The poster in question is employing some revisionist history to make his original predictions sound less outrageous. If he had originally said that it would take 4 years for Liljegren to become a top 4 defenseman, he would take zero heat for it because it is not at all a controversial opinion, in fact it would be a fairly optimistic outlook for the #17 pick in the draft.

I remember the entire debate quite clearly. Considering our lack of RHD depth and the quality of prospect Liljegren was when he was drafted, many expected him to make the roster sooner rather than later. There was a small contingent of fans who always thought that he was 'not even close', this was proven wrong by Kyle Dubas' comments earlier in the year that Liljegren was close to a call-up. It immediately tore through the narrative that he was 4-5 years away.

Not surprised that this poster now refuses to own his lack of judgement. Just like his assertion that this Marlies squad was as good as they are because of vets. Its a pattern of behaviour common to his posts on this forum, usually involves taking an illogical stand, getting called out on it and then refusing to take ownership or admit to ones own lack of research or judgement.

I seem to recall it was in reference to being top 4

 

[Pyromaniac]

I seem to recall it was in reference to being top 4

The entire bit of silliness happened in his draft + 1 season. I admit I was a bit overenthusiastic when I thought he wasn't too far off in his rookie season. I definitely wasn't alone. There were posters on the other side of the debate who thought he wasn't even close.

But the 4-5 years prediction was ridiculous especially because prospect development is so unpredictable and it only came from one poster who has a history of making ill advised *insert foot-in-mouth* type comments.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Lily probably COULD start in the NHL next year, so that likely means he won’t. Leafs have recently been letting their prospects overripe in the AHL, so that means that unless Lily blows everyone away at training camp (or maybe even if he does), he’ll be a Marlie until like January/February 2020.

 

[The Iceman]

Leafs are down a body to start next season with Dermott out. Lily might be the short term answer for however long Dermott is out in sheltered minutes and similar salaries.

As long as this does not affect him not having to be protected in the expansion draft it is a logical option.

 

[ULF_55]

Comes to the development debate as to what is best..

Playing sheltered 3rd pairing minutes at the NHL level for 8-10 minutes a game or 22 minutes a night in the AHL under all situations including special teams.

If he can't play 3rd. pairing minutes he isn't ready.

25 minutes a night in the AHL probably just reinforce bad habits he'd have to correct in the NHL anyway.

 

[Jeypic]

If he can't play 3rd. pairing minutes he isn't ready.

25 minutes a night in the AHL probably just reinforce bad habits he'd have to correct in the NHL anyway.

Even if he can play 3rd pairing minutes... it doesn’t mean that’s the best option.

25 minutes a night in the AHL will give him the opportunity to get his offence going, which would be huge for his development long term. He hasn’t gotten it going in years because he’s always been in a league slightly too good for his level until this year.

Let him dominate, then send him up.

 

[Morgs]

Playing Liljegren on a bottom pairing in the NHL next season would be a mistake.

Now is the time to nurture his creativity and offensive skills, rather than stifle them for another consecutive year. This is how he reaches his future potential. I say this as a poster who’s followed Liljegren’s career closely since the Rögle days.

I disagree. Liljegren already drives play at an elite level in the AHL, and although the points might not be 'eye-popping' like Sandin's, points are really not important to a modern day defenseman. The only argument I see for keeping him down is he's missed around 1 1/2 seasons of development in the past 3, but if he's good enough for the NHL (which I believe he is) there's just no reason to keep him down to help nurture him. And honestly, he's already passed the main test when it comes to prospects before bringing them up:

Make sure they're dominant for an extended stretch.

 

[Leaf Fans]

He didn't even make memorial cup all- star.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Possibly, but I think there's still a lot of value for him to play 20+ minutes a game for Marlies still. Also offensively there's still room for growth.

His offensive game is fine, he gets a lot of pucks through and makes a lot of good reads. Just because he doesn't get PP time to rack up the points doesn't mean he needs to be on the Marlies.

Honestly he was one of the best d-men in the AHL playoffs and if he continues he should have no problem cracking our top 6 next fall.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas has a real challenge heading into next year's camp. You probably pencil Rosen in for a spot, but he's still an unknown quantity, has had two disappointing camps to date, so there's a low risk he's even a 6D. Do you have another spot for one of the kids to take, Lil or Sandin? I don't think you plan for that, the "ripen" path is the Dermott routine, where Lil starts in the A, if he dominates then he's the call up. Same for Sandin.

If I'm a betting man, he hasn't played his last AHL game. Also if I'm a smart man I'm not banking on him just yet, expect Dubas brings in some veteran depth as a stop gap in case.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Possibly, but I think there's still a lot of value for him to play 20+ minutes a game for Marlies still. Also offensively there's still room for growth.

U can't teach deception, offensive instincts. Liljegren has to keep his game simple like Ron Hainsey mold but I fear for Liljegren making poor reads and not respecting danger that can happen but imo he doesnt know it or sense it. Liljegren being an offensive dman is not going to happen. Why has Sandin passed Liljegren in the Leafs system? Hockey IQ .

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

U can't teach deception, offensive instincts. Liljegren has to keep his game simple like Ron Hainsey mold but I fear for Liljegren making poor reads and not respecting danger that can happen but imo he doesnt know it or sense it. Liljegren being an offensive dman is not going to happen. Why has Sandin passed Liljegren in the Leafs system? Hockey IQ.

Sandin hasn't passed Liljegren in the Leafs system. Liljegrens hockey IQ is exceptional. Always making the right reads and smart plays, moving the puck effectively. Uses that strength he put on this year to box out much bigger players and get the puck. Was over 50 CF% in every game in the playoffs despite heavy defensive zone usage and tough matchups.

Sandin got killed in his own zone with much easier competition.

He's basically the exact opposite of Hainsey in a good way lol

It's honestly like some people don't even watch these guys play before making these conclusions.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Also for those interested Sandin only had 9 more even strength points (7 regular season, 2 playoffs) than Liljegren this year including playoffs. Playing a far more sheltered role 5 on 5. The heavy minutes on the PP boosted his point totals to make it look like he blew Liljegren away.

The idea that Sandin is a far superior offensive player is just wrong imo.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Sandin hasn't passed Liljegren in the Leafs system. Liljegrens hockey IQ is exceptional. Always making the right reads and smart plays, moving the puck effectively. Uses that strength he put on this year to box out much bigger players and get the puck. Was over 50 CF% in every game in the playoffs despite heavy defensive zone usage and tough matchups.

Sandin got killed in his own zone with much easier competition.

He's basically the exact opposite of Hainsey in a good way lol

It's honestly like some people don't even watch these guys play before making these conclusions.

Wrong. Also your last sentence provides some irony to the bolded part. Sandin right now is better than Liljegren, so it his development curve, steady rising. Liljegren has halted his progress, then taken a few steps forward, sideways, backward, forward again, etc. I'm quite sure Liljegren ceiling is a 5-6 dman on a team with decent RD depth, which is still a win. I worry Liljegren lack of time, space and having high IQ players reading his next move, could expose him in the NHL. LA Kings chose Durzi over Liljegren. Keefe in the second half of the season simplified Liljegren's game to maximize his worth to the team, he needs to be a Ron Hainsey, defense first guy, let your partner move the puck etc. That will compliment Sandin and Dermott who he has played with and if he can survive on his own in the NHL. He will be given a shot, its a matter of when. A 3rd full year in the AHL will just raise more doubts about his ceiling if he doesnt make the squad to start the year and is making mistakes in the AHL for the 3rd year.

 

[stickty111]

Wrong. Also your last sentence provides some irony to the bolded part. Sandin right now is better than Liljegren, so it his development curve, steady rising. Liljegren has halted his progress, then taken a few steps forward, sideways, backward, forward again, etc. I'm quite sure Liljegren ceiling is a 5-6 dman on a team with decent RD depth, which is still a win. I worry Liljegren lack of time, space and having high IQ players reading his next move, could expose him in the NHL. LA Kings chose Durzi over Liljegren. Keefe in the second half of the season simplified Liljegren's game to maximize his worth to the team, he needs to be a Ron Hainsey, defense first guy, let your partner move the puck etc. That will compliment Sandin and Dermott who he has played with and if he can survive on his own in the NHL. He will be given a shot, its a matter of when. A 3rd full year in the AHL will just raise more doubts about his ceiling if he doesnt make the squad to start the year and is making mistakes in the AHL for the 3rd year.

Also, wrong, Lilly right now is better than Sandin, so it his development curve, steady rising. Liljegren has not halted his progress, he taken a few steps forward. Liljegren ceiling is a 2-3 dman on a team with decent RD depth, which is a win. Liljegren time, space and having high IQ players, will be even more effective in the NHL. LA Kings chose Durzi over Liljegren because they they are terrible evaluators of talent. Keefe in the second half of the season simplified Liljegren's game to maximize his worth to the team, and to improve as a player. He got the some of the toughest matchups and dominated in them. he needs to be a 2 way guy who makes smart reads.
That will compliment Sandin who is very erratic still. A 3rd full year in the AHL will just raise his game even more, if he continues to play mistake free hockey even more.
It's clear you don't watch the games, and are going by biases. Keefe gave him the hard minutes because he was amazing in them. Lilly was the best d man on the team by a lot.

 

[stickty111]

Sandin hasn't passed Liljegren in the Leafs system. Liljegrens hockey IQ is exceptional. Always making the right reads and smart plays, moving the puck effectively. Uses that strength he put on this year to box out much bigger players and get the puck. Was over 50 CF% in every game in the playoffs despite heavy defensive zone usage and tough matchups.

Sandin got killed in his own zone with much easier competition.

He's basically the exact opposite of Hainsey in a good way lol

It's honestly like some people don't even watch these guys play before making these conclusions.

It doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[stickty111]

Wrong. Also your last sentence provides some irony to the bolded part. Sandin right now is better than Liljegren, so it his development curve, steady rising. Liljegren has halted his progress, then taken a few steps forward, sideways, backward, forward again, etc. I'm quite sure Liljegren ceiling is a 5-6 dman on a team with decent RD depth, which is still a win. I worry Liljegren lack of time, space and having high IQ players reading his next move, could expose him in the NHL. LA Kings chose Durzi over Liljegren. Keefe in the second half of the season simplified Liljegren's game to maximize his worth to the team, he needs to be a Ron Hainsey, defense first guy, let your partner move the puck etc. That will compliment Sandin and Dermott who he has played with and if he can survive on his own in the NHL. He will be given a shot, its a matter of when. A 3rd full year in the AHL will just raise more doubts about his ceiling if he doesnt make the squad to start the year and is making mistakes in the AHL for the 3rd year.

Wrong
Lilly was amazing in the playoffs, and outplayed Sandin by a lot. Lilly's ceilling rose to top pair d man.

 

[crump]

Admittedly couldn't catch a lot of the Marlies late season and playoffs, but from what I am reading, it would be nice if Lilly found some kind of crazy chemistry with Rielly in camp. I hope he at least gets tried there, it would be what we all were hoping when he was drafted.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Wrong
Lilly was amazing in the playoffs, and outplayed Sandin by a lot. Lilly's ceilling rose to top pair d man.

Don't forget Liljegren has the one 1 year up on Sandin, Sandin is still in his N.A pro hockey rookie year and it was amazing how well he's done, I love him on the PP. I see them both as good 2nd pair d-man that are versatile and can move around the pairings. Liljegren's playoffs were incredibly encouraging, he had some tough usage and handled it very well which not too long ago seemed like that wouldn't be his game. I have no idea how ready either is, it's gonna be a very interesting camp next fall watching these 2, Liljegren has a huge opportunity to walk out of camp with that right side 3rd pairing spot staring him right in the face.

 

[DarkKnight]

I can't think of anything more pathetic than some Leafs "fans" who are actually tearing down a rookie D man who's just absolutely blown the doors of his development curve this year in Sandin because somehow his success threatens Lil. Good grief.