Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

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I can't think of anything more pathetic than some Leafs "fans" who are actually tearing down a rookie D man who's just absolutely blown the doors of his development curve this year in Sandin because somehow his success threatens Lil. Good grief.
Nobodys tearing down Sandin, I think both guys are great.

Just people look at Liljegrens point totals and assume he isn't as good. He's a much better d-man right now than some people give him credit for and much better than Sandin right now in every area of their games 5 on 5.

Nothing wrong with that as Lily is a year older, I just hope to see the same defensive development from Sandin next year as well.

Both guys are blowing away the norm for teenage d-men in the AHL and we should look forward to both being leafs for a long time.

For me its comparable to when Ekholm/Ellis came up through Nashvilles system. We have two top 4 guys on the way, but like Liljegren last year, we need to be patient with Sandin and let him work on the areas of the game that will let him transition to the NHL seemlessly.
 
Nobodys tearing down Sandin, I think both guys are great.

Just people look at Liljegrens point totals and assume he isn't as good. He's a much better d-man right now than some people give him credit for and much better than Sandin right now in every area of their games 5 on 5.

Nothing wrong with that as Lily is a year older, I just hope to see the same defensive development from Sandin next year as well.

Both guys are blowing away the norm for teenage d-men in the AHL and we should look forward to both being leafs for a long time.

For me its comparable to when Ekholm/Ellis came up through Nashvilles system. We have two top 4 guys on the way, but like Liljegren last year, we need to be patient with Sandin and let him work on the areas of the game that will let him transition to the NHL seemlessly.

Elkholm is 6’4 and close to 220 lbs. Hopefully both to add enough man weight.
 
I don't understand this bickering, perhaps the thread title should be changed to Liljegren vs Sandin?

I like both players a lot and I hope they both become great players, one top pairing guy and the other a top 4 guy would be my dream come true. We probably won't be drafting high again for some time so we should all be pulling for both these guys.

GLG!!
 
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I disagree. Liljegren already drives play at an elite level in the AHL, and although the points might not be 'eye-popping' like Sandin's, points are really not important to a modern day defenseman. The only argument I see for keeping him down is he's missed around 1 1/2 seasons of development in the past 3, but if he's good enough for the NHL (which I believe he is) there's just no reason to keep him down to help nurture him. And honestly, he's already passed the main test when it comes to prospects before bringing them up:

Make sure they're dominant for an extended stretch.
The bolded is so true. Production for defenders is driven so much from the PP, and you only need two there. They don't generally score a ton at even strength outside an elite few. What matters in terms of puck skills is how well they can transition the puck and keep plays alive. Liljegren can do those things already, so he could be an effective NHLer based on that. With his vastly improved defensive game, he could be a good NHLer pretty soon as well.

I've heard talk about how he's not very strong on his skates yet. That could be a reason to keep him down, to make sure there's no exploitable flaw in his game.
 
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Sandin has blown away my expectations this year. The numbers he put up in the AHL as an 18 year old are great, and he has a high hockey IQ. I will readily admit that on draft day I was cursing at the TV screen for passing on Veleno, but Sandin right now has shown that he was a great pick, and in my mind would/should go top 10 in a redraft. I think next year we see Sandin get the same treatment as Liljegren this year in that they scale back the PP time a bit, and use him heavily on the PK, giving him the Rielly treatment where the focus is on the D-side of the puck. With his hockey IQ, he should develop a nice defensive game to compliment his offensive prowess.

Liljegren has exceeded my expectations in the way he has embraced the defensive side of the game, and showed a willingness to put the time in at the gym to bulk up so that he can succeed defensively in the board battles and in front of the net. These aspects of his game were question marks on draft day, and it was thought his strength would be largely in the offensive end, and that his defensive game would hopefully be passable. His offensive instincts and game that enamored him with so many is still there, but much like Rielly in his 1st seasons with Babcock, it has been reigned in to develop and focus on the other side of the puck. You can see that with the match ups he was given, the heavy D-zone start %, and the minimal PP time he received this season. When the reigns are off I think we could see a real two-way player that is a better version of what we had hoped. I would gladly rather settle for a two-way D that puts up 40-50 pts, than an offensive D that is a liability at the other end who puts up 50-60 pts, but takes the unnecessary risks to get the extra 10 pts that was characteristic of Liljegren's game beforehand. It has never been about hockey IQ with Liljegren, but risk vs reward. He now seems to be much more mindful of the risk.
 
U can't teach deception, offensive instincts. Liljegren has to keep his game simple like Ron Hainsey mold but I fear for Liljegren making poor reads and not respecting danger that can happen but imo he doesnt know it or sense it. Liljegren being an offensive dman is not going to happen. Why has Sandin passed Liljegren in the Leafs system? Hockey IQ .
I agree about Sandin. He probably has good enough hockey IQ to know that Liljegren don't need to play a simplistic game too.
 
Sandin has blown away my expectations this year. The numbers he put up in the AHL as an 18 year old are great, and he has a high hockey IQ. I will readily admit that on draft day I was cursing at the TV screen for passing on Veleno, but Sandin right now has shown that he was a great pick, and in my mind would/should go top 10 in a redraft. I think next year we see Sandin get the same treatment as Liljegren this year in that they scale back the PP time a bit, and use him heavily on the PK, giving him the Rielly treatment where the focus is on the D-side of the puck. With his hockey IQ, he should develop a nice defensive game to compliment his offensive prowess.

Liljegren has exceeded my expectations in the way he has embraced the defensive side of the game, and showed a willingness to put the time in at the gym to bulk up so that he can succeed defensively in the board battles and in front of the net. These aspects of his game were question marks on draft day, and it was thought his strength would be largely in the offensive end, and that his defensive game would hopefully be passable. His offensive instincts and game that enamored him with so many is still there, but much like Rielly in his 1st seasons with Babcock, it has been reigned in to develop and focus on the other side of the puck. You can see that with the match ups he was given, the heavy D-zone start %, and the minimal PP time he received this season. When the reigns are off I think we could see a real two-way player that is a better version of what we had hoped. I would gladly rather settle for a two-way D that puts up 40-50 pts, than an offensive D that is a liability at the other end who puts up 50-60 pts, but takes the unnecessary risks to get the extra 10 pts that was characteristic of Liljegren's game beforehand. It has never been about hockey IQ with Liljegren, but risk vs reward. He now seems to be much more mindful of the risk.

No need to scale back the PP time when Sandin already proved he can handle both this year.
 
No need to scale back the PP time when Sandin already proved he can handle both this year.
I think they give some of it Hollowell, just like they did scaling back Liljegren's for Sandin. It seems like the formula. Dermott's PP time I believe was also scaled back; to the point where I don't even remember him much on the PP before his call up.
 
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Liljegren has exceeded my expectations in the way he has embraced the defensive side of the game, and showed a willingness to put the time in at the gym to bulk up so that he can succeed defensively in the board battles and in front of the net. These aspects of his game were question marks on draft day, and it was thought his strength would be largely in the offensive end, and that his defensive game would hopefully be passable. His offensive instincts and game that enamored him with so many is still there, but much like Rielly in his 1st seasons with Babcock, it has been reigned in to develop and focus on the other side of the puck. You can see that with the match ups he was given, the heavy D-zone start %, and the minimal PP time he received this season.

When the reigns are off I think we could see a real two-way player that is a better version of what we had hoped. I would gladly rather settle for a two-way D that puts up 40-50 pts, than an offensive D that is a liability at the other end who puts up 50-60 pts, but takes the unnecessary risks to get the extra 10 pts that was characteristic of Liljegren's game beforehand. It has never been about hockey IQ with Liljegren, but risk vs reward. He now seems to be much more mindful of the risk.

I think we can agree 19 year old Rielly playing a more defensive role in the NHL didn't stunt his offensive abilities.
 
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I think they give some of it Hollowell, just like they did scaling back Liljegren's for Sandin. It seems like the formula. Dermott's PP time I believe was also scaled back; to the point where I don't even remember him much on the PP before his call up.

With Liljegren/Rosen most likely starting the season in the NHL, there's more than enough PP time to go around for Sandin/Hollowell. Sandin PP1, Hollowell PP2.

No need to scale back, especially since Sandin proved he can handle both in his 18/19 year old rookie season.

@biotk would have a better idea on Sandins PK stats/time.
 
With Liljegren/Rosen most likely starting the season in the NHL, there's more than enough PP time to go around for Sandin/Hollowell. Sandin PP1, Hollowell PP2.

No need to scale back, especially since Sandin proved he can handle both in his 18/19 year old rookie season.

@biotk would have a better idea on Sandins PK stats/time.
It would be nice if they didn't, and he played 25-30 min a night throughout the season, but the sports science staff might not want him to have such high usage throughout the regular season until the games matter a lot. Those were the minutes he was logging in being used in all situations. If they are trying to round out his game and focus on the D-side, the PP time is likely what suffers.
 
The good news for Liljegren is that Leafs rightside RH shooting dmen group is among the weakest in the NHL and Hainsey a LHD playing the right is a pending UFA to boot. Oz left and returned to the KHL after his unsuccessful season in the NHL.

Leafs have Zaitesev and Holl as the only other RHD on the current Leafs roster and depth chart ahead of Timmy under contract for next year.

He might have a spot by default next year both because of lack of competition and the Leafs salary cap situation.

Rielly -- Zaitsev
Muzzin -- Holl
Rosen -- Liljegren
Dermott (injured til Dec)
 
It would be nice if they didn't, and he played 25-30 min a night throughout the season, but the sports science staff might not want him to have such high usage throughout the regular season until the games matter a lot. Those were the minutes he was logging in being used in all situations. If they are trying to round out his game and focus on the D-side, the PP time is likely what suffers.
Lilly played more 5 on 5 minutes then Sandin, which indicates the trust Keefe had in him. Next season, Sandin probably gets a tick up in 5 on 5 ice time if Lilly is with the leafs, but his PP time likely suffers.
I think I have seen Keefe double shifting Lilly on occasion too.
 
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The good news for Liljegren is that Leafs rightside RH shooting dmen group is among the weakest in the NHL and Hainsey a LHD playing the right is a pending UFA to boot. Oz left and returned to the KHL after his unsuccessful season in the NHL.

Leafs have Zaitesev and Holl as the only other RHD on the current Leafs roster and depth chart ahead of Timmy under contract for next year.

He might have a spot by default next year both because of lack of competition and the Leafs salary cap situation.

Rielly -- Zaitsev
Muzzin -- Holl
Rosen -- Liljegren
Dermott (injured til Dec)

Regardless of games played 2018-2019 season:
NHL Count
RHD - 129
LHD - 196

They are more rare, maybe convert Brown to RHD? j/k
 
The good news for Liljegren is that Leafs rightside RH shooting dmen group is among the weakest in the NHL and Hainsey a LHD playing the right is a pending UFA to boot. Oz left and returned to the KHL after his unsuccessful season in the NHL.

Leafs have Zaitesev and Holl as the only other RHD on the current Leafs roster and depth chart ahead of Timmy under contract for next year.

He might have a spot by default next year both because of lack of competition and the Leafs salary cap situation.

Rielly -- Zaitsev
Muzzin -- Holl
Rosen -- Liljegren
Dermott (injured til Dec)

Could become even more pronounced if we end up moving Zaitsev as everyone and their brother seems to suggest we'll try to do.
I don't wanna rush people necessarily, but if we're sitting here at training camp and looking at Holl taking a fulltime spot in our NHL 6, I'd much prefer to put Sandin in.
 
Considering how much Liljegren was being relied on in the playoffs to only have been on the ice for 11 of the 33 goals scored against the Marlies in the playoffs is really good imo.
11 goals against in 13 games.

Especially when you consider 4 of those 11 goals were in one bad game. Game 2 vs the Checkers.
7 goals against in the other 12 games.

8/11 goals against he was on for were scored by the Checkers.
 
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Sandin had many more PP opportunities than Liljegren who is being groomed as a right shooting Dermott.

I'm not sure what this has to do with ES points? I had responded to @LeafsOHLRangers98 statement that 5v5, Liljegren was better in EVERY way than Sandin. I pointed out that Sandin has more ES points than Liljegren, by nearly double. I'm not sure how your statement about PP opportunities, has anything to do with 5v5 scoring.

Also note, I'm not saying Sandin is better, or any qualitative statements... both have been excellent, and I'm looking forward to them contributing to the main club.
 
I'd rather have these guys playing 28mins a night in all situations in the AHL than 10 minutes in a sheltered role on the Leafs
 
I'm not sure what this has to do with ES points? I had responded to @LeafsOHLRangers98 statement that 5v5, Liljegren was better in EVERY way than Sandin. I pointed out that Sandin has more ES points than Liljegren, by nearly double. I'm not sure how your statement about PP opportunities, has anything to do with 5v5 scoring.

Also note, I'm not saying Sandin is better, or any qualitative statements... both have been excellent, and I'm looking forward to them contributing to the main club.

Sandin was a turnover machine in the playoffs. Like Gardiner on steroids. My interpretation is that he was just gassed playing so many minutes over the course of the season and playoffs. Brain fog was setting in.

Liljegren lost body position a few times but other than that his defensive game was excellent with barely any turnovers. He was the best Marlies d man in the playoffs. Borgman probably second best.
 
Sandin was a turnover machine in the playoffs. Like Gardiner on steroids. My interpretation is that he was just gassed playing so many minutes over the course of the season and playoffs. Brain fog was setting in.

This just simply isn't true. A rough game 5 vs. Charlotte does not equal a turnover machine in the playoffs.
 
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