Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2

[stickty111]

But he is a rookie. This is his first year in the league. Definition of a rookie. Save that dig at least till next year. You're going to need some ammo next year too.

Some of Leafs nation: we need to learn to develop d man

Also Leafs nation: rip on said young d man we need to develop.

Then we wonder why we have struggled to develop defencemen for the longest time.


Fact is Lilly along with Sandin have been positive stories for us, but they are rookies who will have bad moments from time to time. It's part of progression.

 

[francis246]

Some of Leafs nation: we need to learn to develop d man

Also Leafs nation: rip on said young d man we need to develop.

Then we wonder why we have struggled to develop defencemen for the longest time.


Fact is Lilly along with Sandin have been positive stories for us, but they are rookies who will have bad moments from time to time. It's part of progression.

spare the bullshit, we don’t develop young d because we suck ass at drafting them. Point blank period. Don’t blame the fan base for an organizational issue. Rielly has turned out fine.

if you want good young dmen, draft them. Find guys who can skate and defend

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Is Dermott a family member of yours by chance?

The amount of blind support a bubble player like Dermott gets from some people here is astounding.

No just a kid one of my kids is friends with who played against for years as kids into junior .. good solid family though .. great kid too .. but I never let what goes on at rink glass or pool deck affect my judgement on any player .. it is a shame though with Dermy as kid has all da raw hockey skills to be a great player .. but it happens at times kids just don't develop as per their skill levels say they should .. he won't be 1st or last

 

[JT AM da real deal]

spare the bullshit, we don’t develop young d because we suck ass at drafting them. Point blank period. Don’t blame the fan base for an organizational issue. Rielly has turned out fine.

if you want good young dmen, draft them. Find guys who can skate and defend

This is very harsh .. fact is Leafs are laughing stock of NHL for lack of developing defenders .. and it goes back to Randy C. .. a freakin long time man .. TO is brutal at giving kids time to develop .. sure you can draft a Rielly high and that works but you need another 3 guys who you develop into top 4 dmen .. and our drafting has sucked too but it is not all about drafting it is more about development of defenders .. we need to be able to develop a kid like a Dermy who has more skating skill then over half of NHL defenders and develop that skill BUT we don't .. we suck eggs at developing defenders

 

[Future]

No just a kid one of my kids is friends with who played against for years as kids into junior .. good solid family though .. great kid too .. but I never let what goes on at rink glass or pool deck affect my judgement on any player .. it is a shame though with Dermy as kid has all da raw hockey skills to be a great player .. but it happens at times kids just don't develop as per their skill levels say they should .. he won't be 1st or last

I mean he seems like a great guy but he has no place on this D if we mean to contend for a cup. All I’m saying.

 

[aingefan]

spare the bullshit, we don’t develop young d because we suck ass at drafting them. Point blank period. Don’t blame the fan base for an organizational issue. Rielly has turned out fine.

if you want good young dmen, draft them. Find guys who can skate and defend

5 of 7 D on the -what - 6th best defensive team in the league were drafted/signed and developed internally.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Some of Leafs nation: we need to learn to develop d man

Also Leafs nation: rip on said young d man we need to develop.

Then we wonder why we have struggled to develop defencemen for the longest time.


Fact is Lilly along with Sandin have been positive stories for us, but they are rookies who will have bad moments from time to time. It's part of progression.

I don't even get the hate. Sandin and Liljegren are #1 and #2 on the team for defensemen in both xGF% and xGF% rel at 5 on 5. They are actually really good.

 

[ULF_55]

This is very harsh .. fact is Leafs are laughing stock of NHL for lack of developing defenders .. and it goes back to Randy C. .. a freakin long time man .. TO is brutal at giving kids time to develop .. sure you can draft a Rielly high and that works but you need another 3 guys who you develop into top 4 dmen .. and our drafting has sucked too but it is not all about drafting it is more about development of defenders .. we need to be able to develop a kid like a Dermy who has more skating skill then over half of NHL defenders and develop that skill BUT we don't .. we suck eggs at developing defenders

Was never happy about that. Randy Carlyle Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[Gallagbi]

Sandin was high profile in the transition game and manning the point, handling the puck and some of the skill items but was still a bit of a scramble in his own end. The big test is when a heavy grind team targets him on the forecheck, which wasn’t necessarily an issue vs Jersey.

He's well down my list of concerns there. Both Dermott and Lilj struggle a lot more with the pressure

 

[francis246]

This is very harsh .. fact is Leafs are laughing stock of NHL for lack of developing defenders .. and it goes back to Randy C. .. a freakin long time man .. TO is brutal at giving kids time to develop .. sure you can draft a Rielly high and that works but you need another 3 guys who you develop into top 4 dmen .. and our drafting has sucked too but it is not all about drafting it is more about development of defenders .. we need to be able to develop a kid like a Dermy who has more skating skill then over half of NHL defenders and develop that skill BUT we don't .. we suck eggs at developing defenders

i agree but at the same time, the organization stays away from the type of defenseman you need to win. You need big but mobile defenseman, who can advance the puck. After Schenn we completely got away from that.

 

[francis246]

5 of 7 D on the -what - 6th best defensive team in the league were drafted/signed and developed internally.

And yet we’re looking to upgrade or move 2 or 3 of them?

 

[Shooter2x]

Perhaps one day but they aren't there yet.

18/19 Dermott would crush these two in his sleep. Wtf happened to that guy.

*Don't actually answer the second part since its a lilly thread

 

[aingefan]

And yet we’re looking to upgrade or move 2 or 3 of them?

I don’t know if that’s true.
Some posters want that, by the sounds.
Current reports have the team linked to some D, past reports had Holl and Dermott available, but neither moved.
Fact remains they’ve developed some guys though.

 

[francis246]

I don’t know if that’s true.
Some posters want that, by the sounds.
Current reports have the team linked to some D, past reports had Holl and Dermott available, but neither moved.
Fact remains they’ve developed some guys though.

I’m talking about high impact guys. Yes the leafs have developed a lot of serviceable defenseman. But outside of Rielly and the first year of Schenn in recent memory. They really have not developed high end defenseman. I just don’t think it’s fair to blame it on the fans, just a stupid take. (I know you didn’t, but sticky did. Just another long list of horrible takes from him, his Marner takes are really aging well hahahaha) We have literally no impact in terms of their development. The leafs either have a development issue or they just suck at identifying elite defenseman. I don’t see how fans complaining about that on Twitter or HF boards has anything to do with it

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Like to see

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin trade
Sandin Holl

Dermott dealt Liljegren the #7.

 

[Stephen]

He's well down my list of concerns there. Both Dermott and Lilj struggle a lot more with the pressure

I wouldn’t say Sandin is a “concern” but I also wouldn’t say I don’t have any issues with his game. I don’t love his speed and big physical teams generally circle younger smaller defensemen as exploits in playoff series so he’s going to face some stiff tests which our season will probably depend on. That’s not his problem but the GM should insulate him so he’s in the best position possible to thrive. If cap wasn’t a concern I wouldn’t mind Adam Larsson protecting him a little bit in a Krug-Chara type partnership.

 

[aingefan]

I’m talking about high impact guys. Yes the leafs have developed a lot of serviceable defenseman. But outside of Rielly and the first year of Schenn in recent memory. They really have not developed high end defenseman. I just don’t think it’s fair to blame it on the fans, just a stupid take. (I know you didn’t, but sticky did. Just another long list of horrible takes from him, his Marner takes are really aging well hahahaha) We have literally no impact in terms of their development. The leafs either have a development issue or they just suck at identifying elite defenseman. I don’t see how fans complaining about that on Twitter or HF boards has anything to do with it

my reply to you has errored away twice now, I’ll try later.

 

[francis246]

my reply to you has errored away twice now, I’ll try later.

Mobile really sucks, I don’t know if you’re on there

 

[aingefan]

Mobile really sucks, I don’t know if you’re on there

Brutal.

 

[Joe n]

And yet we’re looking to upgrade or move 2 or 3 of them?

I’m talking about high impact guys. Yes the leafs have developed a lot of serviceable defenseman. But outside of Rielly and the first year of Schenn in recent memory. They really have not developed high end defenseman. I just don’t think it’s fair to blame it on the fans, just a stupid take. (I know you didn’t, but sticky did. Just another long list of horrible takes from him, his Marner takes are really aging well hahahaha) We have literally no impact in terms of their development. The leafs either have a development issue or they just suck at identifying elite defenseman. I don’t see how fans complaining about that on Twitter or HF boards has anything to do with it

4 D from the 17 and 18 drafts have played more than 50 games. Pretty much every team sucks at developing players by your criteria.

 

[Stephen]

i agree but at the same time, the organization stays away from the type of defenseman you need to win. You need big but mobile defenseman, who can advance the puck. After Schenn we completely got away from that.

I feel like the Leafs historically shy away from concentrating on building from the blueline out. Partially to do with getting burned on that Nylund, Iafrate, Gill, Benning generation in the early 80s, partially getting burned drafting The Luke’s with Top 10 picks. But also the economic reality of the City of Toronto where you need to justify ticket prices with an entertaining product. Sometimes that’s a high scoring team, sometimes it’s a team that fights but rarely is it ever a well constructed blueline that plays efficient defensive systems.

 

[francis246]

4 D from the 17 and 18 drafts have played more than 50 games. Pretty much every team sucks at developing players by your criteria.

i don't care how many have played, I care about the impact they have. which has been anything less than spectacular. and like I said, I'm talking about game changing top 4 defenseman. If they were impact defensive guys, there wouldn't be rumours about upgrading our d.

 

[francis246]

I feel like the Leafs historically shy away from concentrating on building from the blueline out. Partially to do with getting burned on that Nylund, Iafrate, Gill, Benning generation in the early 80s, partially getting burned drafting The Luke’s with Top 10 picks. But also the economic reality of the City of Toronto where you need to justify ticket prices with an entertaining product. Sometimes that’s a high scoring team, sometimes it’s a team that fights but rarely is it ever a well constructed blueline that plays efficient defensive systems.

it sucks, because it seems that if they had focused on that a bit, maybe we could have put together some deep runs. It's not the sexy picks but man I just look back to that 2013 draft that could have made all the difference. We had Theodore sitting there and we took Gauthier. I do think it's changing slowly. But we need to stop being afraid to draft bigger defenseman who can skate and actually play defense. It's the key to success. You got to draft them too, it costs way too much to acquire them otherwise. Pietrangelo would have been nice, but our cap situation didn't allow for that of course.

 

[Stephen]

it sucks, because it seems that if they had focused on that a bit, maybe we could have put together some deep runs. It's not the sexy picks but man I just look back to that 2013 draft that could have made all the difference. We had Theodore sitting there and we took Gauthier. I do think it's changing slowly. But we need to stop being afraid to draft bigger defenseman who can skate and actually play defense. It's the key to success. You got to draft them too, it costs way too much to acquire them otherwise. Pietrangelo would have been nice, but our cap situation didn't allow for that of course.

I do prefer the high offensive skill route they’ve taken on this build but something about the path not taken kind of thing that interests me. Cost controlled blueline, rock solid defense, pack mentality attitude. Stifling wins. Won’t be this era but would be curious to see that in Toronto one of these decades.

 

[Gallagbi]

I wouldn’t say Sandin is a “concern” but I also wouldn’t say I don’t have any issues with his game. I don’t love his speed and big physical teams generally circle younger smaller defensemen as exploits in playoff series so he’s going to face some stiff tests which our season will probably depend on. That’s not his problem but the GM should insulate him so he’s in the best position possible to thrive. If cap wasn’t a concern I wouldn’t mind Adam Larsson protecting him a little bit in a Krug-Chara type partnership.

I'd say speed is one of his bigger concerns and I like the way Holl-Sandin lays out from a size and support perspective. Seems to hit the mark you want with Larsson