Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2

[Buds17]

I think there will be more tests and development time but putting two young guys together shouldn't be play especially when compromised early and often in a game. Why didn't each of them get put beside Brodie and Rielly?

Rielly and Brodie were the team's best blueliners tonight and they logged the most minutes by a longshot. I'm not sure how ostensibly decreasing their minutes and increasing the TOI for Sandin and Liljegren would have led to a better outcome in this one? The team was missing a couple of minute munchers on the blueline and there was unfortunately no hiding it on this occasion.

 

[Legion34]

That was as bad a performance as I have seen by a Leaf defenceman in a long time. Wowza. If that is all he can bring, we may as well move on now... that was shite.

you think? He wasn’t even top 3 on the team?

He got caught going for a skate. But man I thought sandin. Dermott and biega were way worse

 

[francis246]

I think there will be more tests and development time but putting two young guys together shouldn't be play especially when compromised early and often in a game. Why didn't each of them get put beside Brodie and Rielly?

I said this yesterday and also today in the GDT, just a moronic decision by Keefe. He’s to blame for today’s loss. Set the team up to fail

 

[wingman75]

Really it was a bad effort from most of the team defensively. The bottom 4 D were undeniably atrocious with their coverage and the Matthews line had a rough night in their own end. Throw in a bad performance from Campbell and it was pretty well destined to be a disaster.

You know, I think I am a bit disappointed in the failed test to be honest. I want these guys to be awesome... and they are not... not yet... it's just that I feel defence is our weakspot on the roster, and if we have bottom pairing guys who can play 2nd line D we are in great shape... but games like tonight just reconfirm for me that we have strict 1-2, 3-4, and 4-5 guy in Sandin and the rest are clearly 6+. I dunno if that really gets a team anywhere come playoff time.

Lilly was just in over his head tonight.

 

[stickty111]

That would be you reading into my comments. I never said that, ever... in any post... Sounds like you were projecting your own thoughts into my comments?

That was as bad a performance as I have seen by a Leaf defenceman in a long time. Wowza. If that is all he can bring, we may as well move on now... that was shite.

Oh, he was, and by a long shot. I am still waiting for him to bring some sort of positive impact to a game. I might have blinked and missed it. He got manhandled all over the defensive zone... that is more my concern. If you cannot compete physically, you are probably playing in the wrong league.

There you go. I just provided it to you..

 

[francis246]

Rielly and Brodie were the team's best blueliners tonight and they logged the most minutes by a longshot. I'm not sure how ostensibly decreasing their minutes and increasing the TOI for Sandin and Liljegren would have led to a better outcome in this one? The team was missing a couple of minute munchers on the blueline and there was unfortunately no hiding it on this occasion.

Rielly - Dermott has been a decent pairing in the past and I think Dermott plays really well with Rielly and even Muzzin on the right side.

Tbh, I felt bad for Dermott today. Biega might as well have been a card board cut out today.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

Rielly - Dermott has been a decent pairing in the past and I think Dermott plays really well with Rielly and even Muzzin on the right side.

Tbh, I felt bad for Dermott today. Biega might as well have been a card board cut out today.

I’ve run out of sympathy for Dermott. Especially after his stupid play in the playoffs. High potential player but just makes some dumb decisions at the absolute worst times. The Gardiner comparisons from 5 years ago were spot on

 

[wingman75]

There you go. I just provided it to you..

Thanks for repeating my thoughts. Context shared in a previous post... move on from expecing them (Timmy or Rasmus) to be more than a 5-6-7. Though I think Sandy has a bit more refinement to his game.

I mean, do we really think he has shown anything to warrant more than a 5-6-7 slot on the team without injuries forcing it? I don't. I am more than okay with him in that 5-6-7 portion of the roster... but, there is a good chance he gets pushed out if there is no improvement... I would think? And I do think we need a 4 before the trade deadline... if that happens, its either Dermott (who was also not good tonight) or Timmy out of the lineup I would guess.

As I say all that... if there is a better option out there and we have to literally move on from Timmy being on the roster, no tears will be shed... unless it turns out to be a disaster move (wouldn't be the first time).

 

[Stephen]

I said this yesterday and also today in the GDT, just a moronic decision by Keefe. He’s to blame for today’s loss. Set the team up to fail

Real head scratcher in hindsight and they should have broken them up when we still could have salvaged a win in New York. But I'm kinda glad we know what the pair looks like under physical pressure so we don't attempt this stunt in a more important game.

I'm disappointed they didn't step up. How many times do we go into games vs teams with depleted lineups and all these nobodies just play out of their mind, next man up mentality, hungry to steal a job. Our kids, weak knees, mom's spaghetti.

My conclusion is if the Leafs really want to compete for a cup this year, the timeline suggests that someone like Liljegren or even a Sandin could be sacrificed in a trade, as long as that piece can be with us for a number of years.

 

[wingman75]

Rielly - Dermott has been a decent pairing in the past and I think Dermott plays really well with Rielly and even Muzzin on the right side.

Tbh, I felt bad for Dermott today. Biega might as well have been a card board cut out today.

I'm not even sure the resoning with putting him in this game. Rubins played well... I guess they wanted to give him a shot and maybe he's been playing well in the A? Just a guess... based on nothing but assumtions.

 

[francis246]

I’ve run out of sympathy for Dermott. Especially after his stupid play in the playoffs. High potential player but just makes some dumb decisions at the absolute worst times. The Gardiner comparisons from 5 years ago were spot on

I just think he needs a new team. I just feel like he flourished under babcock and we were seeing him taking strides, but that changed with Keefe. Coaching changes will do that to you, I think he’ll move on and end up playing with that flair and confidence he did when he first got called up.

 

[stickty111]

Both didn't help each other out. Both put the other in bad spots. They looked like they weren't ready for top 4 but thats fine. Both are improving.
Lilly being a full time NHLer now. Sandin getting better defensively. They are progressing

 

[wingman75]

Real head scratcher in hindsight and they should have broken them up when we still could have salvaged a win in New York. But I'm kinda glad we know what the pair looks like under physical pressure so we don't attempt this stunt in a more important game.

I'm disappointed they didn't step up. How many times do we go into games vs teams with depleted lineups and all these nobodies just play out of their mind, next man up mentality, hungry to steal a job. Our kids, weak knees, mom's spaghetti.

My conclusion is if the Leafs really want to compete for a cup this year, the timeline suggests that someone like Liljegren or even a Sandin could be sacrificed in a trade, as long as that piece can be with us for a number of years.

What options were there? He would have had to split up Mo and Brodie too in that case... tought lineup decisions forced by injuries. It was a good opportunity that probably worked out as the management expected. Just frustrating as a fan lol

 

[francis246]

Real head scratcher in hindsight and they should have broken them up when we still could have salvaged a win in New York. But I'm kinda glad we know what the pair looks like under physical pressure so we don't attempt this stunt in a more important game.

I'm disappointed they didn't step up. How many times do we go into games vs teams with depleted lineups and all these nobodies just play out of their mind, next man up mentality, hungry to steal a job. Our kids, weak knees, mom's spaghetti.

My conclusion is if the Leafs really want to compete for a cup this year, the timeline suggests that someone like Liljegren or even a Sandin could be sacrificed in a trade, as long as that piece can be with us for a number of years.

Couldn’t agree more, Keefe to me lacks a good understanding of coaching in key moments. Firstly, he puts the two kids in a tough spot knowing we don’t have last change, so as soon as they are on, best forechecking line from NYR comes right out. I don’t mind if this was done at home so you can protect them. But on the road is just dumb. Secondly he could have switched the pairings but he didn’t. Idk

also been saying this for months. At this point, it’s cup or bust. No one should be exempt from trade. Sandin, Liljegren, Niemela, Amirov, Robertson who ever should be made available if a cant miss impact player is available via trade.

 

[wingman75]

you think? He wasn’t even top 3 on the team?

He got caught going for a skate. But man I thought sandin. Dermott and biega were way worse

None of them were good, but he was the one that got physically dominated in more critical moments. It wasn't about the play with the puck, that was on par for him. Like that 5th goal against was a tough one to take.

Biega had no expectations... not an NHLer... he was just surviving. Dermott... I had high hopes for that guy. I've seen like zero development over the past year (exaggeration). Sandin is the cream of that crop... whatever that is worth.

Anyway, live and learn no doubt. Keefe kinda indicated he knew this was coming based on some of his comments I thought. So, yea maybe Biega was worse but he was supposed to be.

 

[stickty111]

Thanks for repeating my thoughts. Context shared in a previous post... move on from expecing them (Timmy or Rasmus) to be more than a 5-6-7. Though I think Sandy has a bit more refinement to his game.

I mean, do we really think he has shown anything to warrant more than a 5-6-7 slot on the team without injuries forcing it? I don't. I am more than okay with him in that 5-6-7 portion of the roster... but, there is a good chance he gets pushed out if there is no improvement... I would think? And I do think we need a 4 before the trade deadline... if that happens, its either Dermott (who was also not good tonight) or Timmy out of the lineup I would guess.

As I say all that... if there is a better option out there and we have to literally move on from Timmy being on the roster, no tears will be shed... unless it turns out to be a disaster move (wouldn't be the first time).

You are just making assumptions based on things that are 2 years away. Your post is exactly why young defenceman fail here. Making assumptions based on one game. Imagine if Boston did that with McaVoy when he had a bad game in a top 4 role.
Seems like you need some patience lessons.
Yes disaster move if we traded him right when his trajectory is looking to be a top 4 d man in a year or 2. You would be ripping the team for it

 

[Stephen]

I’ve run out of sympathy for Dermott. Especially after his stupid play in the playoffs. High potential player but just makes some dumb decisions at the absolute worst times. The Gardiner comparisons from 5 years ago were spot on

Dermott has a lot of natural ability and great mobility but the problem is he doesn't give you Jake Gardiner's offense (which wasn't that good relative to his skills to begin with) and he's never learned to simplify his game to be a reliable defenseman who can give you efficient stops, eat minutes, absorb heavy forecheck. And when he applies his skills it can be a ill timed spin-o-rama attempt while trying to cross his own blueline. And to top it all off he still has a scrawny frame that can't handle traffic.

He's almost like a toolsy top 9 forward miscast as a defenseman.

 

[francis246]

I'm not even sure the resoning with putting him in this game. Rubins played well... I guess they wanted to give him a shot and maybe he's been playing well in the A? Just a guess... based on nothing but assumtions.

I think he has nhl experience that’s likely it

 

[francis246]

You are just making assumptions based on things that are 2 years away. Your post is exactly why young defenceman fail here. Making assumptions based on one game. Imagine if Boston did that with McaVoy when he had a bad game in a top 4 role.
Seems like you need some patience lessons.
Yes disaster move if we traded him right when his trajectory is looking to be a top 4 d man in a year or 2. You would be ripping the team for it

lmao Liljegren is not mcavoy that’s the whole point.

 

[Buds17]

Rielly - Dermott has been a decent pairing in the past and I think Dermott plays really well with Rielly and even Muzzin on the right side.

Tbh, I felt bad for Dermott today. Biega might as well have been a card board cut out today.

Fair enough regarding Rielly and Dermott as a pairing. I think having even one of Muzzin or Holl in the lineup would have allowed for a different look and seen the minutes being distributed much more appropriately. There was a big enough gulf between the top two and the bottom four that might not have been bridged by simply altering the pairings, at least in my opinion.

 

[wingman75]

You are just making assumptions based on things that are 2 years away. Your post is exactly why young defenceman fail here. Making assumptions based on one game. Imagine if Boston did that with McaVoy when he had a bad game in a top 4 role.
Seems like you need some patience lessons.
Yes disaster move if we traded him right when his trajectory is looking to be a top 4 d man in a year or 2. You would be ripping the team for it

Lets save our comments for the team and its players... I'd rather not get personal with them since we know nothing about eachother and what we do or don't need.

All I am saying is, he was put in an elevated position tonight and it didn't go very well... in fact it was pretty much a disaster. Now, to your point, he is only 22 - I think we all forget that - all it means is that he is not ready for that role yet. I don't see the bright future that some of you guys do on here... but I do hope you are right and I am wrong. The more capable D we have the better obviously.

 

[stickty111]

Lets save our comments for the team and its players... I'd rather not get personal with them since we know nothing about eachother and what we do or don't need.

All I am saying is, he was put in an elevated position tonight and it didn't go very well... in fact it was pretty much a disaster. Now, to your point, he is only 22 - I think we all forget that - all it means is that he is not ready for that role yet. I don't see the bright future that some of you guys do on here... but I do hope you are right and I am wrong. The more capable D we have the better obviously.

Thats fine but I have no intentions to get Stralman'd again. You would think our fans have would have more patience, but nope.

 

[Racer88]

Real head scratcher in hindsight and they should have broken them up when we still could have salvaged a win in New York. But I'm kinda glad we know what the pair looks like under physical pressure so we don't attempt this stunt in a more important game.

I'm disappointed they didn't step up. How many times do we go into games vs teams with depleted lineups and all these nobodies just play out of their mind, next man up mentality, hungry to steal a job. Our kids, weak knees, mom's spaghetti.

My conclusion is if the Leafs really want to compete for a cup this year, the timeline suggests that someone like Liljegren or even a Sandin could be sacrificed in a trade, as long as that piece can be with us for a number of years.

Scary as it may be it shows how abysmal depth the Leafs actually have.
It’s pretty sad but looking more true every day

 

[stickty111]

Nice to see Mirtle and Jonas are a lot more positive on Sandin and Liljegren. They are saying it didn't go well, but you give them more then one game to see how this looks like.

 

[Stephen]

Scary as it may be it shows how abysmal depth the Leafs actually have.
It’s pretty sad but looking more true every day

The Leafs talent evaluators and powers that be don’t really draft or prioritize for these bottom 6 and defensive defensemen roles.

On draft day we always hear the mantra of BPA and stashing unique and high upside skill which sounds clever and is fine. But the downside to that calculation is while we have Sandin, Niemela, Liljegren, Hollowell, Loponen, Kokkonen, Koster, Miller etc. we skew heavy towards trying to find the next Torey Krug but we don’t have a Zdeno Chara to protect him.