Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion Thread

[Nylanderthal]

I do think it was the wrong move to bring him over that young. I think it if they could go back they wouldn't. again i'm not hating on him, i just dont think he's anything more than a bottom pairing guy.

The only reason bringing him over was bad is because it gives unintelligent people the option of saying “well he’s been here a while” ya, he was in the AHL at 18.. generally guys don’t get there til their 20/21 yo season. if they left him in Sweden his slide years out of sight out of mind he’d be revered around here for being a great stashed pick, but because he’s been a Marlie there’s been these unrealistic expectations of when he should be ready.
With D it’s always a matter of being patient and allowing them to find their game. This is that time for Tim.

 

[francis246]

It wasn't the wrong move. Probably best for his development in the end. The only thing it skewed was the perspective of observers like yourself.

And I don't know how anyone can see Lilly's complete skillset and limit him to bottom pairing upside.

The same way you feel about that. I’m looking at his skill set and asking how can anyone look at him and see top pairing defenseman. It’s literally a matter of opinion. Which I’m entitled to. All we can do is wait and see what happens.

 

[francis246]

The only reason bringing him over was bad is because it gives unintelligent people the option of saying “well he’s been here a while” ya, he was in the AHL at 18.. generally guys don’t get there til their 20/21 yo season. if they left him in Sweden his slide years out of sight out of mind he’d be revered around here for being a great stashed pick, but because he’s been a Marlie there’s been these unrealistic expectations of when he should be ready.
With D it’s always a matter of being patient and allowing them to find their game. This is that time for Tim.

didn’t you just bitch at me for personal insults? Also it’s not just fans, Timothy himself mentioned it. Which means it’s probably a conversation he’s had with management as well.

 

[NinjaKick]

Lily is fine .. he has much more skill than Holl .. Holl is at best 6th D guy on bottom pair .. we should try trade him now before any trade value left is gone .. his value was all bout Muzzy which i have been telling you guys for years

I rather keep Holl in case of injuries

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I rather keep Holl in case of injuries

You are right about that .. CAP hell be damned we need 8 NHL defenders if we make playoffs .. I don't see playoffs this year so was hoping some team out there would give us a missing piece of value as I see Lily as an upgrade over Holl .. maybe not a big one lol

 

[NinjaKick]

You are right about that .. CAP hell be damned we need 8 NHL defenders if we make playoffs .. I don't see playoffs this year so was hoping some team out there would give us a missing piece of value as I see Lily as an upgrade over Holl .. maybe not a big one lol

that sucks bro. personally I think we're absolutely a playoff team... just too much talent. so far this season our depth has been carrying a good portion of our offense. once our best players play like our best players... we're good to go.

 

[zeke]

 

[Kiwi]

Teams trade 22 year old defenseman they don’t value all the time. You can scream and yell all you want. Keefe has zero trust in the kid and that’s all you need to know & Keefe coached him with the Marlies too. So if he was this stud you claim, why isn’t he playing higher? Why doesn’t Keefe look back to those Marlie days and channel it. Use your brain. He has not lived up to his drafted position at all.

Criticize Dermott all you want but he actually has experience of playing in the Top 4 and doing well. he has his warts and mistakes but he’s a much better defender than Liljegren. His ceiling is much higher than Liljegren. There is a reason a lot of hockey experts have not been and continue not to be high on Liljegren.

Are you a mind reader? Or Jedi?

You seem very sure the team wants to move on from him, that's after they drafted, developed and are starting to get him into the NHL

That doesn't look like a let's trade him now candidate if I'm being honest

he's just making the NHL, of course he's being sheltered
Is that not supposed to happen with a young defenseman?

We call this "development"

That coach put him on his top pair for the Marlies and played him well over 20 minutes a night, no trust you say? He did the same thing with Sandin, we trading him to?

He was picked #17, that means he needs to be developed properly not chucked onto the top pair in his draft +1, that's what we are doing

Dermott hasn't done well in the top 4, that why he's still on the bottom pair in his mid 20's, he's also significantly older and more experienced than Liljegren so I'd hope he better defensively at this stage, however Dermott has flatlined developmentally and Liljegren is just getting started so you should pump the brakes on that call

Yeah, appeals to authority don't do much for me, especially from people talking about Dermott's ceiling still

That doesn't look that **** hot right now

 

[supermann_98]

Poor guy is really triggered that Holl lost his guaranteed spot

Liljegren is the future pal, learn to accept it

 

[zeke]

 

[stickty111]

Nice praise, but Keefe has always thought highly of Liljegren. This is the same coach who was double shifting him in the Marlies playoffs along with Sandin.

 

[francis246]

Are you a mind reader? Or Jedi?

You seem very sure the team wants to move on from him, that's after they drafted, developed and are starting to get him into the NHL

That doesn't look like a let's trade him now candidate if I'm being honest

he's just making the NHL, of course he's being sheltered
Is that not supposed to happen with a young defenseman?

We call this "development"

That coach put him on his top pair for the Marlies and played him well over 20 minutes a night, no trust you say? He did the same thing with Sandin, we trading him to?

He was picked #17, that means he needs to be developed properly not chucked onto the top pair in his draft +1, that's what we are doing

Dermott hasn't done well in the top 4, that why he's still on the bottom pair in his mid 20's, he's also significantly older and more experienced than Liljegren so I'd hope he better defensively at this stage, however Dermott has flatlined developmentally and Liljegren is just getting started so you should pump the brakes on that call

Yeah, appeals to authority don't do much for me, especially from people talking about Dermott's ceiling still

That doesn't look that **** hot right now

we’ll see if he’s still here in 2 years. I’m not convinced he will be. Whether he goes unqualified or he’s used in a trade to get another piece.

 

[zeke]

Given how poorly Brodie has played so far, I wonder if we'll see Muzzin-Lilly and Sandin-Brodie at some point.

 

[therealkoho]

If Liljegren can keep on giving the Leafs the level of play he showed so far then he stays and should get Holl's spot. I really didn't think he was any kind of ready to play in the NHL last year. I'd say give him a few shifts with Mo on Tuesday and see how he handles that kind of pressure. I'm not saying he can replace TJ nor do I think he's ready to, but it would be nice to know that he can in a pinch.

I've supported Holl in the past only because he's been there when the Leafs needed him to be, but this year he hasn't looked comfortable nor locked into the play. At this point in his career there really shouldn't be a whole lot of questions about his game, but he hasn't been making the kind of decisions a 2nd pairing NHL Dman should be making. You can't expect perfection from that level of player, but you cannot tolerate careless play either when he's getting that kind of ice time. He never really had a lot of physicality as part of his package but so far this year hasn't exhibited any in any meaningful way.

 

[supermann_98]

The same way you feel about that. I’m looking at his skill set and asking how can anyone look at him and see top pairing defenseman. It’s literally a matter of opinion. Which I’m entitled to. All we can do is wait and see what happens.

Maybe not TOP pairing (though personally I believe he had that potential) but definitely better than 3rd pairing 6th Dman potential

 

[zeke]

 

[zeke]

 

[zeke]

 

[francis246]

Maybe not TOP pairing (though personally I believe he had that potential) but definitely better than 3rd pairing 6th Dman potential

I can concede somewhere in the middle

 

[Nylanderthal]

So the coach who’s had him for going on 5 seasons in the organization sees things completely different than the random posters around here. Man, if only I knew who’s opinion holds water.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It wasn't the wrong move. Probably best for his development in the end. The only thing it skewed was the perspective of observers like yourself.

And I don't know how anyone can see Lilly's complete skillset and limit him to bottom pairing upside.

No one, including Keefer Shanny etc, can know exactly where an under 24 pro defender is going to develop into .. all you can determine is if they have pro level skills like shot, size, toughness, skating-speed and lateral edges .. da hardest thing to figure out, in my opinion, is what makes an outstanding defender --whether he can use his smarts/experience/skills to develop and grow with a vet defender mentor and learn required detail of how to play successfully positionally and in different game situations with a partner .. this can take may many years and why you hear TV media ex players say a defender really can't be understood until their late 20's
My take is of our 3 guys who fall into this category
Dermy has best raw skills of bunch BUT he has struggled with his development/learnings (does not mean he won't be a steady top 4 though)
Lily has next best skills sets of bunch BUT he has been hurt/did not play NA hockey as a kid/may have some compete issues (again does not mean he won't be a steady top 4)
then Sandin who is brightest, best hands, best core strength and most eager of bunch but he lacks longer stride technique in his skating and his short hitch strides are a huge problem to overcome in a puck race (even with a 2/3 stride lead) (bottom line without improving his skating he will NEVER be a top 4 dman in league because he can only ever be a small ice player in either end of ice)

 

[Kiwi]

we’ll see if he’s still here in 2 years. I’m not convinced he will be. Whether he goes unqualified or he’s used in a trade to get another piece.

Giving up on defenseman in there early 20's is a mugs game

At worst Liljegren looks like he can play on our bottom pair for the foreseeable future which has value to the organization

We kept Dermott in the hope he would become a top 4 defenseman so I don't see why we would give up on Liljegren in the same situation

 

[francis246]

Giving up on defenseman in there early 20's is a mugs game

At worst Liljegren looks like he can play on our bottom pair for the foreseeable future which has value to the organization

We kept Dermott in the hope he would become a top 4 defenseman so I don't see why we would give up on Liljegren in the same situation

I would trade Holl before him but let’s say they bring back the entire d core. I think both Sandin and Liljegren expire this year. So they need qualifying offers. No way we can bring them all back without a move. So one of Liljegren, Holl or Dermott will have to move unless we somehow get cheaper forwards (move Ritchie, don’t resign Kase). I really do think this is a make or break year for Liljegren.

He does have to prove he can hack it or they probably do move on from just because of fitting everything under cap wise. If he can that’s amazing and you move Holl or Dermott out and keep him.

 

[Kiwi]

I would trade Holl before him but let’s say they bring back the entire d core. I think both Sandin and Liljegren expire this year. So they need qualifying offers. No way we can bring them all back without a move. So one of Liljegren, Holl or Dermott will have to move unless we somehow get cheaper forwards (move Ritchie, don’t resign Kase). I really do think this is a make or break year for Liljegren.

He does have to prove he can hack it or they probably do move on from just because of fitting everything under cap wise. If he can that’s amazing and you move Holl or Dermott out and keep him.

Sandin, Liljegren and Dermott haven't done enough to get decent paydays as yet and unless one of them becomes a genuine top 4D this season I doubt that changes

If you're looking to move money there's plenty to places to go before those guys

Holl, Ritchie and Kerfoot for a start

I'd keep all 3 of those young defenseman until they either bust or start taking top 4 positions for minimal cap dollars which would free up Brodie or Muzzin for a move

 

[francis246]

Sandin, Liljegren and Dermott haven't done enough to get decent paydays as yet and unless one of them becomes a genuine top 4D this season I doubt that changes

If you're looking to move money there's plenty to places to go before those guys

Holl, Ritchie and Kerfoot for a start

I'd keep all 3 of those young defenseman until they either bust or start taking top 4 positions for minimal cap dollars which would free up Brodie or Muzzin for a move

agreed. But I’m just saying. Sometimes RFA’s don’t sign their qualifying offers. I can’t imagine Sandin will, but maybe Liljegren does.