Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion Thread

[Minty Cowboy]

Size

Sandin: 5'11", 180
Liljegren: 6'1", 205
Menell: 5'11", 175
Kral: 6'1", 175
Holowell: 5'9", 170

Age 18

Sandin: AHL 52pt pace
Liljegren: AHL 32pt pace
Menell: AHL ------------- --- CHL 63pt pace
Holowell: AHL --------------- CHL 30pt pace
Kral: AHL ------------------- CHL 53pt pace

Age 19

Sandin: NHL 23pt pace ------ AHL 59pt pace
Liljegren: NHL -------- ------ AHL 29pt pace
Menell: NHL ---------- ------ AHL ---------- --- CHL 83pt pace
Holowell: NHL ---------------- AHL -------- ---- CHL 73pt pace
Kral: NHL -------------------- AHL --------- --- CHL 63pt pace

Age 20

Sandin: NHL 36pt pace ------ AHL 0pt pace
Liljegren: NHL 8pt pace ----- AHL 62pt pace
Menell: NHL ---------- ------ AHL 29pt pace
Holowell: NHL -------- ------- AHL -------- ---- CHL 99pt pace
Kral: NHL ------------ ------- AHL --------- --- CHL 76pt pace

Age 21

Sandin: NHL 27pt pace
Liljegren: NHL 0pt pace ----- AHL 43pt pace
Menell: NHL ----------- ----- AHL 52pt pace
Holowell: NHL -------- ------- AHL 29pt pace --- ECHL 56pt pace
Kral: NHL ------------- ------ AHL 16pt pace --- CZE 36pt pace

Age 22

Sandin: ----
Liljgren: NHL 27pt pace
Menell: NHL 0pt pace ----- AHL 68pt pace
Holowell: NHL ------ ------ AHL 30pt pace ---- MES 82pt pace
Kral: NHL ----------- ------ AHL 23pt pace

Age 23

Sandin: ---
Liljegren: ---
Menell: KHL 66pt pace
Holowell: AHL 33pt pace
Kral: ------

Age 24

Sandin: ---
Liljegren: ---
Menell: AHL 41pt pace
Holowell: ---
Kral: ------

Leafs had Kral listed as 6'2 in training camp

 

[ACC1224]

i may be totally wrong on this but something makes me think he was calling the fiveholeo guy the troll, not you?

Point is it's against forum rules to call members 'a troll' and at a minimum should result in an infraction.

 

[mydnyte]

I did, I said that while I think he is serviceable, I see him as a bottom pairing guy. Based on his NHL play that I've seen so far, I think he does get lost in the D zone quite a bit. His coverage isn't the greatest. But he's very effective at retrieving the puck and I like how he keeps the puck in the offensive zone. I think if they are building him to be this shut down type defenseman they are setting him up to fail and it's not going to work. He just isn't that great defensively to be that TYPE of defenseman. But if they give him opportunity to showcase his offensive skill, get him more O zone starts, I'm sure there is upside there. Again I'd love to be wrong as it only helps the leafs if he pans out. But Babcock didn't see anything in him and Keefe despite his high usage of him in the AHL, seems to not trust him a whole lot in the NHL. While there may be some truth to him having a good upside, there is also some truth to maybe he just isn't what we thought he was all along especially if he hasn't been able to really push through at this point. Some fans completely refuse to accept the latter. I get the 22 year old argument but lets be honest, he's been in North America for a while now. I just don't think the organization is SUPER high on him.

i could not disagree more ...he is actually almost always in the correct position that a d-man should be in, the only time he is ever out of position is when he's forced to cover for his defense partner being out of position, and thats when it looks like he's running around, because he sees the blown coverage and tries to compensate, which often puts him in a 2 on 1 situation, as he has to leave his man to cover for his partner being in the wrong place, or missing entirely.
i exclusively watched his positioning the Det game, and he was always looking around to keep anyone from sneaking behind, and was always moving to the 'correct' position all game long, and adjusting to other players rotations (or mistakes) to not leave
Dermott on the other hand gets into trouble for exactly that reason, he chases the play rather than play his position properly.

 

[kb]

i could not disagree more ...he is actually almost always in the correct position that a d-man should be in, the only time he is ever out of position is when he's forced to cover for his defense partner being out of position, and thats when it looks like he's running around, because he sees the blown coverage and tries to compensate, which often puts him in a 2 on 1 situation, as he has to leave his man to cover for his partner being in the wrong place, or missing entirely.
i exclusively watched his positioning the Det game, and he was always looking around to keep anyone from sneaking behind, and was always moving to the 'correct' position all game long, and adjusting to other players rotations (or mistakes) to not leave
Dermott on the other hand gets into trouble for exactly that reason, he chases the play rather than play his position properly.

That user has an agenda.

It doesn't involve hockey skills.

 

[81Leafs50]

Liljegren look VERY good vs the Detroit Red Wings. Bright future ahead.

 

[VanW27]

My only area of concern for Lily is his skating, his stride is awkward but he gets around pretty well so that's not an issue but his pivots are poor. Makes him more vulnerable to get beat in certain areas than he should be.

Holl is another guy with poor footwork on his pivots, which hurts him at times. Holl has the benefit of being 6'4" to help cover for that a bit though.

 

[stickty111]

i may be totally wrong on this but something makes me think he was calling the fiveholeo guy the troll, not you?

Correct. I thought it was fiveholeo making more silly posts so I meant him.

 

[stickty111]

 

[Griffin76]

I did, I said that while I think he is serviceable, I see him as a bottom pairing guy. Based on his NHL play that I've seen so far, I think he does get lost in the D zone quite a bit. His coverage isn't the greatest. But he's very effective at retrieving the puck and I like how he keeps the puck in the offensive zone. I think if they are building him to be this shut down type defenseman they are setting him up to fail and it's not going to work. He just isn't that great defensively to be that TYPE of defenseman. But if they give him opportunity to showcase his offensive skill, get him more O zone starts, I'm sure there is upside there. Again I'd love to be wrong as it only helps the leafs if he pans out. But Babcock didn't see anything in him and Keefe despite his high usage of him in the AHL, seems to not trust him a whole lot in the NHL. While there may be some truth to him having a good upside, there is also some truth to maybe he just isn't what we thought he was all along especially if he hasn't been able to really push through at this point. Some fans completely refuse to accept the latter. I get the 22 year old argument but lets be honest, he's been in North America for a while now. I just don't think the organization is SUPER high on him.

So my 2 questions for you are

1 "Based on what I've seen so far" Does that mean all 3 games this year that he's been pretty darn good in? Or in addition to the 2 last year? Or the 11 the previous year where he was thrown in because of injuries to Muzzin and Rielly?

2 Where did Babcock say he sees nothing in Liljegren?

 

[francis246]

That user has an agenda.

It doesn't involve hockey skills.

what would that agenda be? I don't have an agenda, I gain nothing from HF LOL. This place isn't my life.

 

[kb]

So my 2 questions for you are

1 "Based on what I've seen so far" Does that mean all 3 games this year that he's been pretty darn good in? Or in addition to the 2 last year? Or the 11 the previous year where he was thrown in because of injuries to Muzzin and Rielly?

2 Where did Babcock say he sees nothing in Liljegren?

Ain't it sweet that he needs validation for his incorrect takes. Common when people are wrong and doubling down.

 

[LeafSteel]

The trouble wit Twitter is its full of twits. This guy made my head hurt.

this is the perfect example of an idiot on social media who needs to STFU…..

 

[ACC1224]

The trouble wit Twitter is its full of twits. This guy made my head hurt.

this is the perfect example of an idiot on social media who needs to STFU…..

What does it say about those who follow and read that stuff?

 

[francis246]

So my 2 questions for you are

1 "Based on what I've seen so far" Does that mean all 3 games this year that he's been pretty darn good in? Or in addition to the 2 last year? Or the 11 the previous year where he was thrown in because of injuries to Muzzin and Rielly?

2 Where did Babcock say he sees nothing in Liljegren?

1. He looked good against the Red Wings. Best he's ever been in a leafs uniform.

He blocked one shot against the Senators (some fans dubbed him the next coming of Jesus after that). I thought that was his worst game, just a mess on the PK, got absolutely walked twice by Stuzle (I know brodie did as well). Turned the puck over late in the 2nd and we were lucky they didn't score.

Pittsburgh was a game to forget for everyone. But he played decent. Again his zone exits I like, offensive zone keeping position he is good at. Point shots he does well. But he has not looked stable defensively, a bit overwhelmed and flustered outside of the Red Wings Game. Could be a lack of reps.

2. The dcore under babcock was worse than it was under Keefe, he was our top prospect at that time. and couldn't even earn a call up despite good AHL play and Babcock never really gave him good looks in pre-season.

 

[zeke]

Bourne has always been a Liljegren hater. Had some arguments on twitter with him about it. He just can't fathom that liljegren is very good, and that his lack of ice time so far in his young career is as much to do with the Leafs' very good defensive depth (and more importantly their health), than what they think of Lilly himself.

And more ace prospecting from Bourne here:

 

[zeke]

point pace is the determining factor on whether a player makes the NHL or not now? Additionally at least post with context there is a loophole that allows Swedish players to come over at 18.

1. point pace especially impressive because those other dmen there (other than Sandin) are all offense-only prospects, while Lilly's arguably stronger defensively than offensively.

2. that loophole, and the extra years it gave him in the AHL, are the ONLY reason anyone is down on him as a prospect at all, including you.

 

[IPS]

No Holl again?!

Sounds good to me! It's all on you now Liljegren, I'm starting to think they actually want to give you a fair shake for once.

 

[zeke]

My only area of concern for Lily is his skating, his stride is awkward but he gets around pretty well so that's not an issue but his pivots are poor. Makes him more vulnerable to get beat in certain areas than he should be.

Holl is another guy with poor footwork on his pivots, which hurts him at times. Holl has the benefit of being 6'4" to help cover for that a bit though.

strange, I find him a very good skater in every direction that can change pace on a dime.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Lily is fine .. he has much more skill than Holl .. Holl is at best 6th D guy on bottom pair .. we should try trade him now before any trade value left is gone .. his value was all bout Muzzy which i have been telling you guys for years

 

[zeke]

1. He looked good against the Red Wings. Best he's ever been in a leafs uniform.

He blocked one shot against the Senators (some fans dubbed him the next coming of Jesus after that). I thought that was his worst game, just a mess on the PK, got absolutely walked twice by Stuzle (I know brodie did as well). Turned the puck over late in the 2nd and we were lucky they didn't score.

Pittsburgh was a game to forget for everyone. But he played decent. Again his zone exits I like, offensive zone keeping position he is good at. Point shots he does well. But he has not looked stable defensively, a bit overwhelmed and flustered outside of the Red Wings Game. Could be a lack of reps.

2. The dcore under babcock was worse than it was under Keefe, he was our top prospect at that time. and couldn't even earn a call up despite good AHL play and Babcock never really gave him good looks in pre-season.

1. Babcock was bad, and thought Zaitsev was good.
2. Liljegren was just a teenager when Babcock was here.

 

[Nylanderthal]

man shut up

Then the personal attacks follow. Honestly give it a rest. Your opinion is a bad one, and you should definitely feel bad for making it.

 

[francis246]

1. point pace especially impressive because those other dmen there (other than Sandin) are all offense-only prospects, while Lilly's arguably stronger defensively than offensively.

2. that loophole, and the extra years it gave him in the AHL, are the ONLY reason anyone is down on him as a prospect at all, including you.

I do think it was the wrong move to bring him over that young. I think it if they could go back they wouldn't. again i'm not hating on him, i just dont think he's anything more than a bottom pairing guy.

 

[francis246]

Then the personal attacks follow. Honestly give it a rest. Your opinion is a bad one, and you should definitely feel bad for making it.

i'm allowed to respond to the personal shots he's been taking at me. doesn't even have the balls to quote me. lol get a life, no one should feel bad about their opinion and i don't feel bad about it

 

[Nylanderthal]

1. Babcock was bad, and thought Zaitsev was good.
2. Liljegren was just a teenager when Babcock was here.

He was a bad coach, but he could see the writing on the wall, I don’t think forcing a 19/20 year old D into the lineup when your jobs on the line is really going to help matters.

 

[zeke]

I do think it was the wrong move to bring him over that young. I think it if they could go back they wouldn't. again i'm not hating on him, i just dont think he's anything more than a bottom pairing guy.

It wasn't the wrong move. Probably best for his development in the end. The only thing it skewed was the perspective of observers like yourself.

And I don't know how anyone can see Lilly's complete skillset and limit him to bottom pairing upside.