Time to forgive Rob Blake (History/Jersey Retirement Chat)

[Winger23]

Yeah, Blake was so bad that he was an all-star for 6 years and also won a Norris. You're right, he sucked!

But don't stop there herby, please tell us how much Kopi sucks, and Doughty, and of course your favorite of all times...Stool or Turdby (whom I 've named after you)! You've ragged on Turdby for 3 years, only to finally realize that you've been wrong for all of those years!!!!!

Man, some of you guys holding this grudge is just pathetic, TRULY pathetic!

What's pathetic is just because you forgave or like the guy you aren't willing to accept that others will not. Your opinion on this subject is strictly your opinion. Do not sit here and preach on who or what we should forgive.

 

[Herby]

What's pathetic is just because you forgave or like the guy you aren't willing to accept that others will not. Your opinion on this subject is strictly your opinion. Do not sit here and preach on who or what we should forgive.

I enjoy arguing with black63, he is a very loyal fan to pretty much every player who has ever played for the Kings. He likes to criticize me about Stoll, Smyth and others but this was the guy who to this day still thinks Matt Frattin and Ethan Moreau made positive contributions to the roster.

Like K17 said, it's not so much a grudge, I no longer have a problem with Blake working for the Kings, but I and others just don't believe his play on the ice warrants having his jersey retired. When I think jerseys going up to the rafters I think of players who were revered by the fans of their franchise, and I just don't see that with Blake

 

[Reclamation Project]

I defended Frattin pretty hard this year.

 

[agentfouser]

I defended Frattin pretty hard this year.

Would you like to talk about your feelings? This is a safe space.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Would you like to talk about your feelings? This is a safe space.

Like someone else said earlier, the problem is we're having two arguments. The conclusion of the first seems to be that most people have generally forgiven Blake and don't mind him being around the team in his business capacity, though of course a few disagree. The second is about jersey retirement, and not nearly as many agree there for a variety of reasons including the premises of the first argument as well as even just his play objectively. Let's try to keep them straight while ripping each other's heads off

 

[Captain Mittens*]

I was pro Frattin, but damn was I wrong. But hey, thanks for helping us get Gaborik!!!

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Like someone else said earlier, the problem is we're having two arguments. The conclusion of the first seems to be that most people have generally forgiven Blake and don't mind him being around the team in his business capacity, though of course a few disagree. The second is about jersey retirement, and not nearly as many agree there for a variety of reasons including the premises of the first argument as well as even just his play objectively. Let's try to keep them straight while ripping each other's heads off

That's because the OP made the implication that the reason Blake's number isn't retired is because of fan resentment. In reality, that may be part of the reason but I think a lot of people (myself included) have made the case for why it shouldn't be based on merit. Blake's accomplishments with the team are marginal compared to the guys who already have their numbers retired and the current crop of players. If you look at his play objectively and compare it to the guys who already have their numbers retired, he would without a doubt be the lowest on the totem pole.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

I defended Frattin pretty hard this year.

Yeah I was sure he was going to be a 20 goal scorer playing alongside Richards and Carter. Guess even Lombardi strikes out on some guys but even then he turned a bust into Gaborik

 

[Winger23]

There's a big difference between being directly told that you will be traded, which is what happened with Blake, as opposed to rumors that were put to rest and didn't come to fruition. Lombardi didn't go to Brown and say, "hey, I'm trading you if you don't perform better." The Kings told Blake if he doesn't sign, he's gone. That's fine if the organization thinks that way internally, but to tell that to a player who spent his entire career there?

Imagine you being a long time employee at your company and they offer you less to stay there and threaten to get rid of you if you don't agree to their terms only. Are you going to bend over backwards for that? You can't compare what happened to Brown with what happened to Blake.

How is this different from any other player who's contract is expiring, as the team wants to ensure they get compensated in a trade if a player doesn't sign an extension? Bend over backwards? It's called playing out your contract for your teammates, something he obviously didn't care about.

How many other captains have ripped off their C because they were going to get traded? St Louis was pissed in Tampa and demanded a trade. Did he rip his letter off? It was all about Rob blake, not the team, not the fans, no one but himself. Which young defensemen ever came out and talked about how blake mentored him? zero. Not a damn one.

 

[Ron*]

I'd retire Deadmarsh's jersey before Blake. Hell, even Miller while we're at it.

Esa Penis...er, Pirnes.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How is this different from any other player who's contract is expiring, as the team wants to ensure they get compensated in a trade if a player doesn't sign an extension? Bend over backwards? It's called playing out your contract for your teammates, something he obviously didn't care about.

How many other captains have ripped off their C because they were going to get traded? St Louis was pissed in Tampa and demanded a trade. Did he rip his letter off? It was all about Rob blake, not the team, not the fans, no one but himself. Which young defensemen ever came out and talked about how blake mentored him? zero. Not a damn one.

Go on, keep making up facts to support your silly claims.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=3071148

While you are making things up, why don't you go find me other times where a team threatened to trade their captain if he didn't sign with them. Blake was fine playing out his contract and wanted to negotiate an extension to remain with the Kings. He didn't threaten to remove himself from the team. It was the Kings who threatened to do that to him if he didn't sign. Big difference, if you paid any attention at all to what happened back then and how it all played out.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I'd retire Deadmarsh's jersey before Blake. Hell, even Miller while we're at it.

Deadmarsh? Wat?

 

[Ron*]

Go on, keep making up facts to support your silly claims.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=3071148

While you are making things up, why don't you go find me other times where a team threatened to trade their captain if he didn't sign with them. Blake was fine playing out his contract and wanted to negotiate an extension to remain with the Kings. He didn't threaten to remove himself from the team. It was the Kings who threatened to do that to him if he didn't sign. Big difference, if you paid any attention at all to what happened back then and how it all played out.

Say what you want Ziggy, but it's a fact he was the only Kings' captain in the history of the franchise to relinquish the captaincy.

Maybe when they retire his number they can include a "C" hanging by threads next to his number to appease all of us fans who are about to die off.

 

[Winger23]

Go on, keep making up facts to support your silly claims.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=3071148

While you are making things up, why don't you go find me other times where a team threatened to trade their captain if he didn't sign with them. Blake was fine playing out his contract and wanted to negotiate an extension to remain with the Kings. He didn't threaten to remove himself from the team. It was the Kings who threatened to do that to him if he didn't sign. Big difference, if you paid any attention at all to what happened back then and how it all played out.

Jesus give it a rest. There is just no point in arguing with you. No, he didn't threaten to remove himself, just the letter off his chest which in your view doesn't matter.

So he wanted to stay a king, but didn't like the offer. Keep pretending it was all on the kings and not with Blake. You keep talking about how much he wanted to stay, but it all came down to money. He chose money over staying period. I'm done with Blake and his threads. Fans of his are just not willing to accept the criticism.

 

[KingsKnight]

Jesus give it a rest. There is just no point in arguing with you. No, he didn't threaten to remove himself, just the letter off his chest which in your view doesn't matter.

So he wanted to stay a king, but didn't like the offer. Keep pretending it was all on the kings and not with Blake. You keep talking about how much he wanted to stay, but it all came down to money. He chose money over staying period. I'm done with Blake and his threads. Fans of his are just not willing to accept the criticism.

In the same way, those against him are not willing to accept the alternative. It goes both ways.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Mike Richards relinquished his "C" in Philly amid rumors of supposed locker room turmoil, which was then given to Pronger. Similar to what happened when the "C" went from Desjardins to Primeau. It happens. How about the occasions where fans ask for a player to relinquish his captaincy, like the numerous times we question Dustin Brown as captain? Yeah, that never happens. Because irrational fans are always right.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

For those calling Blake a poor mentor (not taking into account what a crappy, mishmash squad the team had on the ice), take note of these comments:

“I see a lot of him,” Vlasic said. “It’s great playing with him and I can learn from him. When I pass the puck to him he stops it and shoots right away. He does the little things right. He picks his spots.”

“Rob Blake is a Hall of Fame player,” McLellan said. “He’s won a Norris Trophy and played in All-Star Games and the Olympics. There’s not a lot I’ll tell ‘Pickles’ that Rob Blake hasn’t experienced. He’s a great teaching tool for all the young defensemen.”

Martin Skoula also played his best hockey when he was paired with Rob Blake and has said that he was his favorite partner to play with. So there you go, we have posters on a forum who seem to know more about a player than his peers.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In the same way, those against him are not willing to accept the alternative. It goes both ways.

Yep, this is a pretty old issue that is getting rehashed due to recent events and while there are some central facts there are plenty of questionable details that we aren't privy to...hence folks having to make a subjective decision on what to believe. Many have made their minds up and wont change them unless some new details are released, so without veering into infraction territory, many of us are going to just have to get comfortable with agreeing to disagree, doesn't make anyone on either side a bad person or fan or whatever and I'm not going to put up with character attacks over it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

For those calling Blake a poor mentor (not taking into account what a crappy, mishmash squad the team had on the ice), take note of these comments:

Martin Skoula also played his best hockey when he was paired with Rob Blake and has said that he was his favorite partner to play with. So there you go, we have posters on a forum who seem to know more about a player than his peers.

What he did with the Avs and Sharks only rubs more salt in the wound that he didn't do more of that here, imo.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What he did with the Avs and Sharks only rubs more salt in the wound that he didn't do more of that here, imo.

But look at where those teams were at compared to the Kings. I don't know if you want me to bring those rosters up because it is only going to bring back some horrible memories.

The Kings were pretenders in the early 2000s and in his second stint, the Kings were simply a terrible team. Marc Crawford was the bench boss. The team was not put into a position to even contend for a playoff spot. Look at the mess that they had in net and the lack of depth throughout the lineup. But hey, at the very least those poor seasons set the Kings up to be in a position to draft Doughty in 2008.

I don't think Blake can be faulted for the situation the Kings were in during his tenure here. He's a player, not the GM or executive who puts the roster together. And let's be realistic, this team stood no chance to do anything when Blake was on the team. He was one of the few bright spots in the lineup who was capable of winning games. Unfortunately, though out his time as a King, the team was mired by goaltending problems, and that went on from 1995 through 2008, until Quick's arrival. Pretty, pretty bad.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

What a polarizing figure this guy is.

 

[KingsKnight]

Yep, this is a pretty old issue that is getting rehashed due to recent events and while there are some central facts there are plenty of questionable details that we aren't privy to...hence folks having to make a subjective decision on what to believe. Many have made their minds up and wont change them unless some new details are released, so without veering into infraction territory, many of us are going to just have to get comfortable with agreeing to disagree, doesn't make anyone on either side a bad person or fan or whatever and I'm not going to put up with character attacks over it.

Yeah I don't think anyone here is a bad person for thinking one way or the other. I'm sure there are truths to both sides of the story. I think we only see the overall picture and try to fill the blanks depending on how we want to color the story. Personally I tend to be the "give someone the benefit of the doubt" type, but I know others see it differently.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

But look at where those teams were at compared to the Kings. I don't know if you want me to bring those rosters up because it is only going to bring back some horrible memories.

The Kings were pretenders in the early 2000s and in his second stint, the Kings were simply a terrible team. Marc Crawford was the bench boss. The team was not put into a position to even contend for a playoff spot. Look at the mess that they had in net and the lack of depth throughout the lineup. But hey, at the very least those poor seasons set the Kings up to be in a position to draft Doughty in 2008.

I don't think Blake can be faulted for the situation the Kings were in during his tenure here. He's a player, not the GM or executive who puts the roster together. And let's be realistic, this team stood no chance to do anything when Blake was on the team. He was one of the few bright spots in the lineup who was capable of winning games. Unfortunately, though out his time as a King, the team was mired by goaltending problems, and that went on from 1995 through 2008, until Quick's arrival. Pretty, pretty bad.

Oh no, for sure, I wasn't really referring to the team success, I was referring more to the mentoring thing. I guess it's a little hypocritical for me to think that because you look at guys like Richards, Carter, Gaborik and how they do better not being THE guy and Blake sort of did the same, but those guys also aren't in danger of having their numbers put in the rafters of their old teams. I just think Norstrom was a leader in a way Blake wasn't--mentoring, sticking up for teammates, etc. If you're going to be a team leader/face-of-the-franchise type, you can't shirk those responsibilities, and though we don't have all the details, I think there's sufficient evidence that he didn't do those things in any great, deserving-of-honor capacity.

 

[theMajor]

personal feelings aside, will his jersey be in the rafters?

 

[Ron*]

What a polarizing figure this guy is.