Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[DanyHeatley]

Sens got to make the playoffs soon

Getting tiring to see you guy running your mouths when your team cant make it and show how good they are in the playoffs

Still have more series wins than leafs in the past decade

 

[wetcoast]

Now do points.

Wrong poll and that wasn't was being said, it was best GOALSCORER of his generation not player or pointgetter.

doesnt make sense to only look at the years they overlap when comparing the generation. you look at their entire careers.

matthews holds the rate right now but i can see mcdavid taking that eventually.
hes the more skilled goalscorer

Sure and that's what I did a difference of 7 goals per year over a 7 and 8 year period this isn't changing as far as goal scoring goes.

 

[Xspyrit]

Pweople here can read but frankly alot of people wouldn't take Stutzle and that one year of Taresneko over Matthews.

It's not over Matthews, it's over Matthews and Gambrell... Then Tarasenko's money next year becomes Batherson? Or someone else? or partially someone else? I mean, it's 5/8 of Sanderson salary, it's also more than Chychrun salary

Taking the best player in the equation is usually the right choice.

In what situation? Not in this one... and Stutzle is closing the gap in a very quick pace too... He'll be 21 this season

Now Stutzle might have more to give but he isn't getting more ice time than last year, that's what held Matthews back partially under Babcock and with increased ice time he exploded to 47 goals in 70 games.

Productionwsie both guys were basically the same this year and it was a peak year for one guy and a huge disappointment production wise for the other.

A "peak" year for Stutzle? Now that's silly... He started the season as a 20 y/o for Christ sake (January 15th birthday)

And ice-time doesn't matter, a player can produce more even with less ice-time. Stutzle on-ice ES xGF/60 was higher than his ES GF/60 (4.83 vs 4.45) as his line was very snakebitten early on. Opposedly for Matthews, 5.15 vs 5.48

Then factor in 2 way play and I'm taking Matthews until Stutzle shows more.

Well, Stutzle has started showing more, a lot more. His defensive progression the last 2 seasons has been as steep as his offense

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Contracts excluded I take matthews

Contracts included its stutzle, he’s on a good deal, but is/will be a worse player than Matthews

 

[wetcoast]

It's not over Matthews, it's over Matthews and Gambrell... Then Tarasenko's money next year becomes Batherson? Or someone else? or partially someone else? I mean, it's 5/8 of Sanderson salary, it's also more than Chychrun salary



In what situation? Not in this one... and Stutzle is closing the gap in a very quick pace too... He'll be 21 this season



A "peak" year for Stutzle? Now that's silly... He started the season as a 20 y/o for Christ sake (January 15th birthday)

And ice-time doesn't matter, a player can produce more even with less ice-time. Stutzle on-ice ES xGF/60 was higher than his ES GF/60 (4.83 vs 4.45) as his line was very snakebitten early on. Opposedly for Matthews, 5.15 vs 5.48



Well, Stutzle has started showing more, a lot more. His defensive progression the last 2 seasons has been as steep as his offense

We get it you like Stutzle but don't be surprised when he has a ceiling.

Remember last year was an off year for Matthews his track record is much higher, Stutzle very well might get better or only a bit better and AM might bounce back to elite goal scorer flirting top 5 ish in points again.

Look I really love Stutzle but not all bets work out and some guys plateau and a guy with a down year after 3 really big ones often bounces back.

The name dropping in the "extra" 5 million doesn't help either it's not those exact players.

Every team has a cap and for Stutzle's contract to be the over the top difference then that extra 5 million needs some sort of team results not namedropping players.

 

[SkeeterPumpkinEater]

Absolutely bonkers that Matthews isn't winning this poll. Matthews is an absolute meat missle. He is cheddar boss.

 

[Akrapovince]

doesnt make sense to only look at the years they overlap when comparing the generation. you look at their entire careers.

matthews holds the rate right now but i can see mcdavid taking that eventually.
hes the more skilled goalscorer

The issue is, Matthews will force a shot because he doesn’t have the playmaking McDavid has. Matthews is such a gifted goal scorer that despite passing being a better option, he will still score by forcing a shot sometimes.

Made up numbers, but if McDavid shot on a 2 on 1 he has just as much of a chance to score as Matthews by going in and dangling or shooting, but he’ll pass because it’s an almost guaranteed goal instead of like 70%. Matthere’s will take that 70% every time because he can’t make the 100% play that McDavid can.

If the rules in the national hockey league changed and ended up being something like “goals only count on the scoreboard if only a certain player scores” McDavid would never, ever lose a goal scoring title ever.

 

[Haatley]

What's the legitimate argument? I provided facts if you are going to say it's not true then what is the argument?

And It better be more than "21"

The legitimate argument is that in the most recent sample size, the 21 year old was better. With new contracts kicking in, he will he making much less money. So you get a better performance, for lower cap hit.

 

[Bileur]

Stutzle with contracts. Matthews without.

Do people really see Matthews as a power forward? That’s one of the craziest things I’ve read on HFboards.

 

[Joe n]

Still have more series wins than leafs in the past decade

How many series wins during Stutzle's time in the league?

 

[Sensatauro]

I find this one of the more interesting thread reads lately. For example this is a tough pill that you can make case for both players.

One thing that I am curious for from the leaf fans. Stutzle just put up 90 points as a 20 year old. And very few have done this feat. Matthews included. Yet so many leaf fans say he has peaked already.

Really??

So he can't get better, and matthews despite putting up less last season for SURE won't put up less going forward?

Not even a question whose better?

Ok.

But fortunately,, we have games to play and I be willing to bet, we haven't seen the best of Stutzle but we have seen the best of Matthews.

Who is right and who is wrong?

They will decide on the ice, and I couldn't be more excited. These next three years gonna be a lot of fun.

 

[DanyHeatley]

How many series wins during Stutzle's time in the league?

Stutzles only been in the league for 3 seasons compared to Matthews’ 7. Even if we go back just 7 seasons, Ottawa still has more series wins than toronto. Ottawa within Stutzles 7th season will have more series wins than toronto.

 

[DevilsHughes86]

Stutzle, that's too much of a great contract to pass on

 

[Golden_Jet]

Wrong poll and that wasn't was being said, it was best GOALSCORER of his generation not player or pointgetter.


Sure and that's what I did a difference of 7 goals per year over a 7 and 8 year period this isn't changing as far as goal scoring goes.

Yes it is the wrong poll to compare Matthew’s and McDavid.

 

[Golden_Jet]

We get it you like Stutzle but don't be surprised when he has a ceiling.

Remember last year was an off year for Matthews his track record is much higher, Stutzle very well might get better or only a bit better and AM might bounce back to elite goal scorer flirting top 5 ish in points again.

Look I really love Stutzle but not all bets work out and some guys plateau and a guy with a down year after 3 really big ones often bounces back.

The name dropping in the "extra" 5 million doesn't help either it's not those exact players.

Every team has a cap and for Stutzle's contract to be the over the top difference then that extra 5 million needs some sort of team results not namedropping players.

Lol, we get it you like Matthew’s.
Did Matthew’s hit his peak at 20/21 years of age? Stutzle D+3 season was better, and at a younger age.
Thanks for the laugh on the 5 million difference.

 

[Tuna99]

Matthews contract is absurd but he should be the choice in this one.

Stutzle is more competitive so Stutzle 100% all the time

 

[Taluss]

Contracts included Stutzle

No contracts Matthews

 

[Sensatauro]

Still want an answer from leaf fans that states why they believe Stutzle has peaked at 21 when Matthews hadn't. Let's go should be easy right. I mean even Matthews in his 20 year old season didn't put up the points Stu did. In fact only the greats of hockey have. Of the list of 5 players. Apparently only Stu peaked...absurd thinking imo.

But let's not pretend either of these guys are anything but stud hockey players. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around folks thinking Stu has already peaked. How many players peaked at 21? List can't be long. Has anyone?

 

[Joe n]

Stutzles only been in the league for 3 seasons compared to Matthews’ 7. Even if we go back just 7 seasons, Ottawa still has more series wins than toronto. Ottawa within Stutzles 7th season will have more series wins than toronto.

not sure what role played in Ottawa's last series win.

 

[MCR74]

not sure what role played in Ottawa's last series win.

Exactly.

Matthews has helped his team get into the playoffs at least.

What has Stutzle accomplished in his first three seasons to better Matthews? Where are his trophies?

 

[Michoulicious]

Which player would you take, contracts included?

Stutzle: 78 GP 39 G 51 A 90 points, 8 years x 8.350 million beyond this year

Matthews: 74 GP 40 G 45 A 85 points, 4 years x 13.25 million beyond this year.

With 5 millions AAV difference, it is not close. This is major. Allows your team to.get another significant piece to your roster (top 6 forward, top 4 D, starting goaltender).

Not sure how anyone chooses Matthews, especially when you add to contract their age/injuries history/etc.

 

[Strangle]

Comparing their age 19-21 seasons, Matthews destroys Stutzle.

Goals: 111 - 73 (Matthews by 38 goals)
Assists: 104 - 94 (Stutzle by 10 assists)
Points: 205 - 177 (Matthews by 28 points)

+\-: +18 - -48 (Matthews by a mile)

More PP goals, more game winning goals, much better defensively, just a much better player.

This poll looks like an attempt to take Stutzle’s career year and compare him to Matthews worst career season and then bash the Leafs over a contract.

There’s no question you take Matthews at $13m all day long

 

[Sensatauro]

Comparing their age 19-21 seasons, Matthews destroys Stutzle.

Goals: 111 - 73 (Matthews by 38 goals)
Assists: 104 - 94 (Stutzle by 10 assists)
Points: 205 - 177 (Matthews by 28 points)

+\-: +18 - -48 (Matthews by a mile)

More PP goals, more game winning goals, much better defensively, just a much better player.

This poll looks like an attempt to take Stutzle’s career year and compare him to Matthews worst career season and then bash the Leafs over a contract.

There’s no question you take Matthews at $13m all day long

Stutzle has a better 20 year old season then Matthews. But that's Stu peak apparently. Yet noone can give me an example of a 20 year old whose peaked. Yet here we are, leaf fans saying Stu has peaked and Matthews hasn't.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Comparing their age 19-21 seasons, Matthews destroys Stutzle.

Goals: 111 - 73 (Matthews by 38 goals)
Assists: 104 - 94 (Stutzle by 10 assists)
Points: 205 - 177 (Matthews by 28 points)

+\-: +18 - -48 (Matthews by a mile)

More PP goals, more game winning goals, much better defensively, just a much better player.

This poll looks like an attempt to take Stutzle’s career year and compare him to Matthews worst career season and then bash the Leafs over a contract.

There’s no question you take Matthews at $13m all day long

One year for Stutzle was a 56 game season, but I’m sure you knew that,

Stutzle joined the League a year younger at 18 as well because Matthews missed being drafted a year earlier by a day or 2, and started at 19.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Contracts included should be in the title.