Player Discussion Tim Stützle - (C) - Part VI

[dpw]

Show me where Stutzle dives?

last game where he did the spinorama after being touched. Brendan Gallagher few years back was right. It's embarrassing and pathetic.

 

[DueDiligence]

Timmy was a give away machine last night. He is highly skilled but undisciplined and thinks he is playing pond hockey where only offense matters.

 

[bicboi64]

1g during this 6 game losing streak.

Stu needs to start lighting the net up, especially considering the amount of ice time he gets.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Timmy was a give away machine last night. He is highly skilled but undisciplined and thinks he is playing pond hockey where only offense matters.

Had to check as I didn’t recall that.
Senators had 1 giveaway last night which was Zub, Sens had 8 takeaways
Avs credited with 9 giveaways and 6 takeaways.

1 giveaway for team must be one of there better outings for giveaways.

 

[DueDiligence]

Had to check as I didn’t recall that.
Senators had 1 giveaway last night which was Zub, Sens had 8 takeaways
Avs credited with 9 giveaways and 6 takeaways.

1 giveaway for team must be one of there better outings for giveaways.

Not sure how you can have only 1 give away and the other team have six takeaways? But it was in Arizona that Timmy had a bunch of giveaways. But stats like that are highly subjective; BT was credited with only 1 hit last night yet I saw at least 3-4 more.

 

[Sanderson]

He used to dive during his first season or two..... hard to grow out of something that is part of the European culture of sports (Football). Having lived in Europe for the better part of the decade diving culture is pretty much accepted if it draws a penalty.

Pretty sure someone (veteran) on the Senators sat him down and straighten him out on the diving a while back, but you still see the "look around for the ref" after a hit or a fall, and you still see the whining and that shaking of the head as he skates back to the bench after not getting a call.

Is Tim Stutzle Carrying His Weight as a Top-Line NHL Centre Defensively?

Here we analyze how Ottawa Senators first-line centre Tim Stutzle stacks up defensively from our previous team based article.

lastwordonsports.com

No, diving most definately is not "part of the European culture of sports".
Diving is basically a non-issue in European hockey, and most of the other team sports don't have a big issue with it either. And while it is widespread in football - though it is frowned upon in parts of Europe - this is a phenomenon that is true for football in general, not connected to Europe. What happens in football has no bearing on the behaviour of hockey players.

Crosby whined a ton as well, and he couldn't have less connection to Europe, or football. Good young players don't like it when they get mistreated. And they not only get mistreated a lot - as is always the case when bad players try to stop good players - but also suffer from not being as strong as older players yet, which causes accusations getting thrown their way that are just nonsensical. Some are more inclined to yap about it when they don't get a call, others are not. That largely changes when they mature, and get stronger.

What's bad about the yapping is that it doesn't help anyone. It doesn't get you more calls, it just makes refs even more prone to not give you calls (meaning: even worse at doing their job, but that is another matter). And not getting calls allows cheaters to complain about you as well, see that joke that is Gallagher.

Fact is, great players who carry the puck a lot don't get nearly as many calls as they should, as refs are still more interested in going with (or being told to go with) some useless form of game management that actually hurts the game instead of getting it right. And that can very much get on a player's nerves. Especially when he is younger.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

No, diving most definately is not "part of the European culture of sports".
Diving is basically a non-issue in European hockey, and most of the other team sports don't have a big issue with it either. And while it is widespread in football - though it is frowned upon in parts of Europe - this is a phenomenon that is true for football in general, not connected to Europe. What happens in football has no bearing on the behaviour of hockey players.

Crosby whined a ton as well, and he couldn't have less connection to Europe, or football. Good young players don't like it when they get mistreated. And they not only get mistreated a lot - as is always the case when bad players try to stop good players - but also suffer from not being as strong as older players yet, which causes accusations getting thrown their way that are just nonsensical. Some are more inclined to yap about it when they don't get a call, others are not. That largely changes when they mature, and get stronger.

What's bad about the yapping is that it doesn't help anyone. It doesn't get you more calls, it just makes refs even more prone to not give you calls (meaning: even worse at doing their job, but that is another matter). And not getting calls allows cheaters to complain about you as well, see that joke that is Gallagher.

Fact is, great players who carry the puck a lot don't get nearly as many calls as they should, as refs are still more interested in going with (or being told to go with) some useless form of game management that actually hurts the game instead of getting it right. And that can very much get on a player's nerves. Especially when he is younger.

I can only speak to my life experience when I lived in Europe for the better Part of one decade back in the mid 60s…and saw it for myself when watching Eishockey, and playing vs European players…. diving and trying to bait refs into calling penalties was part of the game plan….. perhaps that has changed since then, but it is part of the dna and takes a few generations to rid itself from the mainstream…. And perhaps that some North Americans to do similar, is possibly the influence of the Europeans doing it when they came to the NHL….. If you’re old enough to have watched the summit series, it was quite evident that diving to draw penalties was used, and the European refs often fell for it hook line and sinker.

 

[Adrianopolous]

Under JM lots of guys will flourish but I think TS will regress.

 

[coladin]

Under JM lots of guys will flourish but I think TS will regress.

Too early to tell. But he is not responding to the coaching change well

 

[Sting]

I think he'll come out of this a better player but it's pretty clear that from a pro coaching perspective, Tim got virtually nothing. JM will want to turn him into a complete player and I am not sure if Stu is on the same page given his numbers might take a hit.

The more I think about it - man did Pierre/DJ ever screw up the development of some of this core.

 

[Sun God Nika]

I think he'll come out of this a better player but it's pretty clear that from a pro coaching perspective, Tim got virtually nothing. JM will want to turn him into a complete player and I am not sure if Stu is on the same page given his numbers might take a hit.

The more I think about it - man did Pierre/DJ ever screw up the development of some of this core.

I really don't think Stutzle will care about his numbers since he is already getting paid. If you listen on to his interviews he is the first to criticize himself even if he has a 3 point night. He always talks about prioritizing the win.

He is a 21 year old. Most high end career NHL'ers start their career at about this age. Meanwhile Stutzle is trying to find the finishing touches for his game.

I agree that the coaching change is going to be great for him just like it wil be for Brady, Chabot and Batherson who have all lost their defensive games under DJ.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Our head and associate coaches are positioned to be fantastic teachers for Timmy.

He is a hybrid of Hossa and Havlat. Under Martin and while learning from Alfie, they became deadly penalty killers and great 200 foot players.

This could be a great arrangement.

 

[bert]

Crazy that once Pinto is back, that Kubalik is a fourth liner.

Kubalik shouldn't even dress in my opinion I've seen enough. So easy to play against. Need faster harder players. Trade him asap. I wish he would do something out there, maybe another team takes a chance.

As for Stutzle I think he's battling an injury. Just doesn't have that extra gear right now. Whether it's his skating or his shot his game breaking explosiveness hasn't been there all season.

 

[JD1]

He is a 21 year old. Most high end career NHL'ers start their career at about this age. Meanwhile Stutzle is trying to find the finishing touches for his game.

Tim was drafted 3OA. Guys drafted top 5ish that end up with high end NHL careers are typically in their D+4 season and entering their prime which is where Tim is.

Mid first rounders and 2nd rounders more commonly are entering the NHL in their D+4 years.

Then you've got guys drafted at the top whose careers are kinda floundering meaning they're not producing relative to their draft slot and drop down when the redrafts start a few years later. Guys like Lafreniere, Byfield and Kakko.

 

[Dionysus]

Under JM lots of guys will flourish but I think TS will regress.

Why is that? I would argue the exact opposite.

I think he will flourish. Seems like the type of player who wants to win and round out his game. Highly skilled and room to improve his details. Similar to Alfie, he will learn that he can't do it all himself and will have to trust his teammates and make the simple play more often.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Tim was drafted 3OA. Guys drafted top 5ish that end up with high end NHL careers are typically in their D+4 season and entering their prime which is where Tim is.

Mid first rounders and 2nd rounders more commonly are entering the NHL in their D+4 years.

Then you've got guys drafted at the top whose careers are kinda floundering meaning they're not producing relative to their draft slot and drop down when the redrafts start a few years later. Guys like Lafreniere, Byfield and Kakko.

I’d say the average for top 5, would be in D+2 or 3 range. Sanderson another example of D+2
As every top 5 doesn’t start in NHL.

 

[JD1]

I’d say the average for top 5, would be in D+2 or 3 range. Sanderson another example of D+2
As every top 5 doesn’t start in NHL.

College guys tend to be different. They tend to stay in college.

 

[Golden_Jet]

College guys tend to be different. They tend to stay in college.

Ya that’s why I said the average would be D+2 or 3 probably.

 

[JD1]

Ya that’s why I said the average would be D+2 or 3 probably.

The comment I originally replied to was most "high end" careers typically start "at this age" and I don't think that's true.

Top 5 guys (with the occasional exception of a guy that stays in college) that end up with a high end career don't start 3 or 4 years later.

Top 5 guys that end up with a career that didn't live up to the draft position are more likely the guys starting their career in their D+4 years.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Tim and Brady will buy in and be even better players for it (they would probably argue that they have already bought in). Both guys are team first players, proud of their city and team, and desire to be better.

Both also just lost their first major NHL mentor and are probably struggling a bit with it, as well potentially feeling the guilt that comes from feeling in part responsible.

Sometimes we forget that not only are the players humans, but they are also very young men, are emotional, and are also in demanding leadership positions. It’s a lot to process for anyone at any time. It’s no surprise that it’s the secondary guys who are shining first (Norris, Batherson, Hamonic), and that’s a good thing.

Our star guys will get over it, learn from it, and be better for it. Put the process won’t be denied no matter how badly we want the youngsters to just get over it and move on.

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Did his dog die or something?

 

[Golden_Jet]

View attachment 792702

Did his dog die or something?

Nice green grass wherever he is

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If Timmy wants to be anything close to Hossa he is going to have to start clearing pucks that come to him. Hossa was RW and Timmy a C - but I swear to god I saw Hossa lose maybe 1 or 2 board battles and every time he got the puck it went out of the zone or to safe ice.

Hossa?! Let’s chill On hossa lol.

Stutzle needs to learn about 1000 things in the neutral and d zones to be anything close to Hossa.

And in the o zone. Hossa was. A game manager with the puck. Much like Alfie was. It’s like they had one eye on the play and another on the scoreboard

Martin I’m sure realizes that last time he coached the sens there were many zero
Nonsense players. Hossa Alfie chara fisher redden.

Compared to like nonsense filled players like stutzle tkatchuk chabot batherson.

To be fair those other guys were a bit older.

 

[SensHulk]

View attachment 792702

Did his dog die or something?

Sad if true. Like losing a family member

 

[AchtzehnBaby]