Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[CorgisPer60]

The boys are having fun now.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I have a really bad feeling about our future... I don't think we have he corporate suport that we need.

Are you sure? We actually have a goood corporate presence. It was the lack of effort from TNSE in marketing to them and instead relying on the fanbase’s ramped u demand from the return of the in 2011. COVID caused a major drop in renewals, leaving the Jets where they are no.

 

[bustamente]

Bettman has bigger fish to fry the Sharks have a lot of people dressed as empty seats tonight and they are not going to be good any time soon.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

So tired of hearing the narrative in the media that we have the second worst attendance in the league, only ahead of Arizona. TSN mentioned it again tonight. Someone please tell them that even if we sold out every game again, we'd only move up one spot to 30th (past SJ).

TNSE handled ticket sales poorly, no question. Their strategy was great for the first 2-3 years, but they didn't adjust, they just continued taking support for granted and did everything to piss off STH since then. Now that people are broke, I do hope that corporations step up (especially with the tax consideration), and do their part.

 

[ps241]

I will share a story with all of you. Its my story. Its also very much the story of a lot if not most of the indigenous people living here.

My Grandfather and Grandmother were products of residential schools. Both were taken from there families at the age of 6. My grandfather we know very little what happened to him. What we do know is in snippets he would let out when he was drunk. One of the stories he would tell was when he spoke in Cree at school when he first got there at the age of 6. The priest would take him to a closet in the back of the classroom and hang him by both thumbs all day. He wouldn't talk about much though but his scars were deep.

My Grandmother was much more open. Beaten and sexually abused by the nuns for years. She finally ran away at 13 and met my grandfather. Both are what you call co dependents. Both suffered massive abuse for years and both coped with by drinking. They had my dad soon after. My dad grew up in extreme poverty. My grandfather was actually a successful fishermen back then. When I my dad got older and started to work for him he realized they shouldn't be poor. My grandfather made a 1000 dollars a month fishing, alot of money back then. But he gave it away to the 2 "white" guys who worked for him. He was left with a 100 dollars a month after he paid those 2 guys. Those men knew what they were doing and knew it left my grandfather poor and unable to support his family. They knew if they gave him a bottle of whiskey he would just let them rob him month after month. My dad called them out at 10 years year old. They threatened to kill him if he told his dad. He did anyways and you know what my grandfather did? Nothing. "Just let them have it" he told my dad.

My father never knew what his parents went through. They never talked about it. He just believed they were the drunk stupid indians everyone talked about. He hated them. He hated being Indian. He was with the help of my Mother many years later able to escape his own battle with alcoholism and break that cycle of abuse. I am the product of that and I am lucky because alot of relatives are not so lucky. My grandparents had 11 kids and I have many cousins who have continued that cycle of abuse.

The idea that the original people of this land are "coddled" and "useless" offends me and it should offend everyone. Without us the original settlers would have all died. We lived here for thousands of years and we were not lazy drunks doing nothing. That only happened after we were taken advantaged off and others benefitted greatly from it. Anyone that comes from a welfare life knows how difficult it is to escape. We have an entire group of people living that life, a life perpetuated by the people that we helped and too be told years later to get over it is an insult.

Thanks Joe

I was very fortunate to have a good buddy of mine who teaches welding at a high school with 97% indigenous population with most of the kids coming out of tough situations on the res or CFS. He is a phenomenal educator and has won national awards for his teaching and his kids amazing welding projects. He is pretty hilarious and yea he connects and bonds with his students. Our kids played hockey together when they were 8 and we formed an annual hockey father son fishing trip to Crow Duck each June. Long story short I would spend 4 hours round trip with my buddy for about 5 years and over that time I got what I would consider a life changing education on the topic of what his students situation is. Pretty much exactly what you posted about.

Long before the Kamloops discovery my buddy walked me through many different stories (countless) of the residential school system and the generational trauma that occurred. The obliteration of the family units replaced by parents that had their kids forcibly abducted and often abused and the stories of the parents left behind with no kids to raise and the shock of that side of the equation too. He also discussed the current situation of most of the kids in his school and their really tough housing arrangements, no food, no money for bus passes, no parents in the homes and often 10 people in two bedroom places.

My buddy tried to keep it light and spoke with compassion and knowledge on the topic. I will be forever grateful for him taking time to answer the million questions I asked about breaking the cycle and how it’s really next to impossible short term at least. Honestly I naively use to judge people as if they had been raises like me, two parents heading off to work type life. That was my reality and that bares zero resemblance to how the kids are raised that attend his school. There is no structure, only negative role models, rarely is there even one functional parent in the picture. maybe one good grandparent for the lucky kids. They have no foundation to build on for the most part.

I usually think I can solve most problems because that is how my brain is wired. After the trips I came away with a very opposite feeling after my education on this topic.

I did have one take away. When I was driving through Kenora with my somewhat innocent son a few years back and we went by a group of largely indigenous people close to the liquor store looking about as rough as it can get my son asked the obvious question. Instead of answering like my dad might have or people from my generation I pulled over my vehicle and took time to discuss how alcoholism and addiction are color blind, that he has great grandparents on both sides of the family that were alchololics. However, acknowledging what we both saw I also took time to share the stories from my friend about the Residential school f*** up (don’t worry son it only lasted 126 years) and how it often could manifest itself in addiction issues. We discussed how our family was going to need to lead with compassion and understanding and not sit in judgment. I vowed that I would never let my kids hear me say the shit I heard growing up. Maybe it’s not a big deal but it’s one thing I can control.

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[AnonoJet]

I have never understood the Bettman hate. His support of us getting a second chance at a franchise was a necessity. And he delivered.

I watched his interview during the first intermission, and thought he did a great job. Loved what he had to say.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

I’m struggling to figure out how Arizona has 5000 fans for their games and still viable for all these years

 

[Section 325]

I’m struggling to figure out how Arizona has 5000 fans for their games and still viable for all these years

Revenue sharing
An incredibly low payroll
An owner that seems willing to finance their losses
The potential of being located in a city of 6 million

 

[surixon]

Well it seems many got their wishes and received an apology from Chipman for taking the fans for granted last night. It shouldn't have come to this for them to take a long look at themselves and how they operated some segments of their business, but alteast they understand and have acknowledged it.

Now they can put the effort required into engaging and working with the fans and corporate support to rebuild that demand.

 

[jetsmooseice]

OK, so now that we got all that sorted out, next on the agenda will we have AHL President Scott Howson coming to Winnipeg to call us on the carpet for our tepid support of the Manitoba Moose?

 

[Gm0ney]

Revenue sharing
An incredibly low payroll
An owner that seems willing to finance their losses
The potential of being located in a city of 6 million

Their hockey payroll is about $60M. They have an additional $14.25M on LTIR, which I guess mostly is paid by insurance? In all, it's about $36M lower than the Jets current hockey payroll.

I imagine their off-ice payroll is quite a bit smaller than the Jets as well (front office, scouting, etc.).

 

[ps241]

PS I value your opinion, especially in the business side of things. Never saw a follow up post but would be interested to hear what you had to say.

I too actually read the article and came away thinking positively of Chipman. It seems he recognizes that the organization has not done enough for fans and that they may have had their heads in the sand so to speak.

I don't think the article was a hard threat as much as it was an unfortunate reality. We have a smaller margin for error in Winnipeg and the building needs to be full or damn close to it. I felt he was recognizing that the organization has played a part in it not being full and was not just blaming the fans.

I have learned some things in business but I am far from an authority on running a sport franchise in a city like Winnipeg. I have an opinion just like the other folks on the board but take it with an XL grain of salt.

Part 2 of 3

As I mentioned I was pretty upset (along with allot of other people apparently) with the marketing campaign last spring because at the core I felt Mark and his team were doubling down on one of the main factors that was leading to a drop in demand. They had done some things right but they had also made allot of mistakes and didn’t seem to be in touch with that. Mostly, I was pissed off Mark of all people would sign off on DEFCOM escalation and drop the passive aggressive threat of the franchise security. To me it was kind of the final straw in what I would call an organization that was out of touch with reality.

I have been in business forever and I have a lot of friends in business. It’s laughable to me when any business owner blames their customers for a lack of sales. You have a problem with demand for your product, great, welcome to the world of owning a business, ITS NOT YOUR CUSTOMERS FAULT, shut up and sell tickets.

If I had a capability I would dig up a lengthy post I did last spring with some ideas on the topic (I would weight these with the same level of credibility as my fantasy GM advice ). One of the cornerstone Pillars in my imaginary ownership path forward was that Mark and his team have phenomenal data advantage that I would kill for. They have a list of their 3500 lapsed season ticket individuals (and groups). Lets round that up to two owners per seat and it might be as high as 7000 former season ticket holders. Any business would kill for that list. My plan last spring is I said Mark should get a small team led by him and pick up the phone and start contacting these people one at a time to listen, apologize if necessary, and make an offer of free tickets as a thank you to them for their years as a loyal customer. Just put their heads down and grind then meet in their board room and have a full debrief of what they have learned every Friday. Lather, rinse, repeat for as long as it takes. I am not saying you can turn this back into 3500 season ticket holders but you can turn the page, mend some fences, build bridges, and at least let them get back and watch a game live again.

Fast forward to Mark’s interview with Johnston and I felt he was finally getting it. He admitted they have made mistakes and he detailed them. He has walked things back a bit to position their need into a non franchise threatening framework. What I am hearing is we are not leaving but we might not be able to afford to be competitive if we struggle to sell tickets. For now I will take Mark at face value and I look forward to seeing if they have the capability of making changes.

The interview was a step in the right direction in my opinion. Talk is cheap though, now comes the hard part, they have to evolve.

Other topics to ponder, retention strategy for the die hard STH's, Is David Thomson an advantage or disadvantage as a partner (Steelman- strawman), Hockey is the product but that's not what you are selling, Gatekeeper vs agent how do you transform an organizational culture?

 

[Buffdog]

Their hockey payroll is about $60M. They have an additional $14.25M on LTIR, which I guess mostly is paid by insurance? In all, it's about $36M lower than the Jets current hockey payroll.

I imagine their off-ice payroll is quite a bit smaller than the Jets as well (front office, scouting, etc.).

I might be wrong, but hasn't Arizona also done a good job of collecting contracts where the actual dollar amout being paid is lower that the rhe Cao hit of the contract?

Seems like my something my daughter would do lol... she loves shopping at thrift stores. Pays pennies on the dollar for same item of clothing that someone paid big bucks for up front

 

[Gm0ney]

I might be wrong, but hasn't Arizona also done a good job of collecting contracts where the actual dollar amout being paid is lower that the rhe Cao hit of the contract?

Seems like my something my daughter would do lol... she loves shopping at thrift stores. Pays pennies on the dollar for same item of clothing that someone paid might bucks for up front

That info was from the "Total Salary" tab on Capfriendly, so that's what they're really paying.

They're definitely cutting corners - their AHL/ECHL hockey salary budget is half of the Jets'...and I imagine it's a similar case just about everywhere in the organization.

 

[sipowicz]

Cheapman started the mess after his comment that he's not sure Winnipeg works as a market after a couple down seasons in attendance after sellouts for 10 years, talk about taking your season ticketholders and ticket buyers for granted!

Bettman rushed to Winnipeg at Cheapmans request, to straighten out them good folks in Winnipeg, meanwhile his pet project in the desert lingers unable to sell out a 4600 seat arena, F me!

 

[gojetsgo]

Cheapman started the mess after his comment that he's not sure Winnipeg works as a market after a couple down seasons in attendance after sellouts for 10 years, talk about taking your season ticketholders and ticket buyers for granted!

Bettman rushed to Winnipeg at Cheapmans request, to straighten out them good folks in Winnipeg, meanwhile his pet project in the desert lingers unable to sell out a 4600 seat arena, F me!

he did not say this

 

[sipowicz]

he did not say this

it was pretty close to that and thinly veiled! He's an a -hole

 

[Stumbledore]

Seems like my something my daughter would do lol... she loves shopping at thrift stores. Pays pennies on the dollar for same item of clothing that someone paid might bucks for up front

Yeah, I remember way back in the day spending more than one Saturday afternoon driving a bunch of girls (including 2 of my own) to Value Village. They'd descend on the racks like vultures and an hour or two later (good thing there was a book section there) proudly display shorts and tanks and used stuff that they'd buy for a quarter or fifty cents.

 

[tbcwpg]

Cheapman started the mess after his comment that he's not sure Winnipeg works as a market after a couple down seasons in attendance after sellouts for 10 years, talk about taking your season ticketholders and ticket buyers for granted!

Bettman rushed to Winnipeg at Cheapmans request, to straighten out them good folks in Winnipeg, meanwhile his pet project in the desert lingers unable to sell out a 4600 seat arena, F me!

The first wrong point is that he's not sure Winnipeg works as a market, he didn't say that, and the second one is that Bettman came out here at Bettman's request, Bettman said last night that he was originally scheduled to come here as part of his annual trip around the league.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The first wrong point is that he's not sure Winnipeg works as a market, he didn't say that, and the second one is that Bettman came out here at Bettman's request, Bettman said last night that he was originally scheduled to come here as part of his annual trip around the league.

As you said, Bettman does make an annual trip around the league.

What he doesn't do in most markets is the big dog-and-pony show he did last night. This was clearly at Chipman's request.

 

[sipowicz]

The first wrong point is that he's not sure Winnipeg works as a market, he didn't say that, and the second one is that Bettman came out here at Bettman's request, Bettman said last night that he was originally scheduled to come here as part of his annual trip around the league.

Sorry but none of what my post said was hyperbole! Believe what you want.

Buttman and his henchman Daly were here to tuneup the Winnipeg Jets fans brethern!

 

[tbcwpg]

As you said, Bettman does make an annual trip around the league.

What he doesn't do in most markets is the big dog-and-pony show he did last night. This was clearly at Chipman's request.

Yeah the press stuff was definitely prompted by the article but I think, just an opinion, that it was Bettman's idea and not Chipman's.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Yeah the press stuff was definitely prompted by the article but I think, just an opinion, that it was Bettman's idea and not Chipman's.

But The Athletic article didn't just happen out of the blue - it happened because Chipman agreed to speak with Chris Johnston at The Athletic.

This has all been orchestrated. Not that it's some massive conspiracy - it's all pretty simple really. Bettman is coming to town, so Chipman A: does a big interview and B: asks Bettman to speak.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Bettman has been and gone already hasn't he?