Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[jetsmooseice]

We keep hearing about Jets attendance, but what about the Moose? Their numbers have been dropping like a stone since their first year back in Winnipeg. Here's an easy fix: discount kids tickets. I guarantee I'd start going to more than my usual 2 or 3 games a year if my kids were half price. And you know anyone bringing kids is probably going to be making multiple trips to the concession stand

 

[RetroWinnipeg]

We keep hearing about Jets attendance, but what about the Moose? Their numbers have been dropping like a stone since their first year back in Winnipeg. Here's an easy fix: discount kids tickets. I guarantee I'd start going to more than my usual 2 or 3 games a year if my kids were half price. And you know anyone bringing kids is probably going to be making multiple trips to the concession stand

I think they directly marketed with Winnipeg School Division and UofW students to offer discounted tickets on select games.

Also, Jets 360 users were offered comps with point redemptions.

 

[Inanna]

The bolded is especially true. If audio production at Jets games is causing a problem, a trip to the doctor regarding your hearing is something to consider.

I don't attend Jets games so it's never a problem.

I lost most of my hearing from meningitis at age 12. Ironically, my dad is a doctor (so is mom, but a Phd) so it was always a short trip, LOL.

 

[BigZ65]

It costs 5x to 25x more to gain a new customer than it does to retain an existing one.

They really shot themselves in the foot.

When ticket sales started to soften, they should've protected STHs - e.g. buy back up to 5 or 10 games per season at the STH price - and never undercut that price in resale. But they kind of went the opposite way...they seemed to always be testing the limits of demand, but they were too slow to react to the tide change.

Edit: Oh and they started Jets Rewards way too early - they should've kept that powder dry until the waiting list disappeared and introduced it as part of a package to enhance the value of season tickets. Introducing it at the start of the 2013-14 season when there was no benefit (to TNSE) was a mistake...and then later dismantling it and replacing it with a much weaker program? Does anyone know what the f*** they're doing there?

The other part of the new/retained customer piece for TNSE is that your market is limited. You burn that bridge and you’ll never get people back. If people don’t take their kids you might lose generations.

They really need to consider this in how they market single games and mini-packs vs season tickets too. If they grease the mini-packs too much they can’t expect anyone to hang on for season seats.

 

[BigZ65]

Please expand on "damaging noise levels in the arena."

This was one of the reasons we started begging out of the 300s behind the added level of press box. The reverberation was so bad that almost nothing was audible. When we complained they’d always just crank the volume and make it worse. Was like we moved to a new rink when we finally got relocated after 9 seasons.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

To better understand the criticism of this campaign, I encourage you to watch the promo. Some people interpret it as a threat that the team will leave if the arena isn't filled. While TNSE's marketing team may have intended to evoke a sense of community spirit, the message received by many is quite different.

It's worth noting that this campaign doesn't exist in a vacuum. Over the past 12 years, TNSE's actions and words towards their season ticket holders and fans have been perceived by some as prioritizing profits over a sense of solidarity. The relationship between TNSE and fans can feel more like milking a cash cow than a genuine partnership.

Case in point:

While the empty seats are certainly concerning, I think True North is doing just fine. Unsold seats & the subsequent loss of the concession sales associated with it are offset by the price gouging for concessions & the inability for fans to leave for cheaper alternatives elsewhere during intermissions.

The Jets return was marketed as a manner to increase business in our downtown, but instead they have locked their doors during games. The Hargrave Market, The Shark Club, Boston Pizza, Tavern United, The Met have all been affected negatively by this.

Even before they locked their doors, True North was making it difficult for those that wanted a pint elsewhere. Moxies paid premium dollars for their spot on the north end of the arena and was plagued with bullshit during games and events. True North went as far as to task physically handicapped individuals with neurological disorders with the job of rescanning entry, a job doomed for failure. There were many occasions when fans missed entire periods unable to get back into MTS Centre because the individual tasked to scan tickets couldn't hold the device steady.

It says a lot about the character of an organization when the handicapped become pawns to increase concession sales.

Then there's their casino...

True North is not losing money. They just want more.

 

[Hunter368]

I was a ST holders for the first 10 years, only stopped due to life issue having nothing to do with hockey or money. My years as a ST holder were great, no issues or complaints and had no issues with TNSE. Loved the experience in the arena, nothing negative to say about it. I loved it!

Not sure what the difference is between my view and some others, perhaps its how I look at the team overall. IMO, NHL teams are a business, owned by business owners who are in the business of making money and not charity. Being in business myself for nearly 35 years with multi of the largest in Manitoba I have no problems with businesses and the idea of making money. The core concept of a successful business is offering something that people value and find worth paying for.........if you can get that you have a successful business. So I have no issues with TNSE making money or wanting more money, they should thats the entire point of a business. Now as a consumer we have the right not to pay for a product or service if we feel its not worth the cost, perhaps some believe that its not worth the cost and thats perfectly fine. But I don't get some peoples comments seeming like TNSE owes us anything, it has nothing to do with that IMO. Its a simply as they are offering a product, if they charge too much people wont come if they feel its not worth it.

Simple, marketing team needs to get feedback from fans what they want, like, need to buy the product again. To be clear I'm not suggesting lower ticket prices or certainly not significantly lower prices. But certainly a better product on the ice would help, more fun atmosphere in the arena (look at some of the USA examples), etc.

 

[Gm0ney]

While the empty seats are certainly concerning, I think True North is doing just fine. Unsold seats & the subsequent loss of the concession sales associated with it are offset by the price gouging for concessions & the inability for fans to leave for cheaper alternatives elsewhere during intermissions.

The Jets return was marketed as a manner to increase business in our downtown, but instead they have locked their doors during games. The Hargrave Market, The Shark Club, Boston Pizza, Tavern United, The Met have all been affected negatively by this.

Even before they locked their doors, True North was making it difficult for those that wanted a pint elsewhere. Moxies paid premium dollars for their spot on the north end of the arena and was plagued with bullshit during games and events. True North went as far as to task physically handicapped individuals with neurological disorders with the job of rescanning entry, a job doomed for failure. There were many occasions when fans missed entire periods unable to get back into MTS Centre. It says a lot about the character of an organization when the handicapped become pawns to increase concession sales.

Then there's their casino...

True North is not losing money. They just want more.

Another hallmark of TNSE over the years is that they just can't stand the thought of anyone else making money off the Jets. Remember their anti-scalping crusade in the early hot-ticket days (followed by them lobbying the province to let TNSE be able to scalp tickets)? This was all before the bottom fell out of the ticket market, of course...

"Donnelly says Manitoba is virtually the only jurisdiction in North America where it's against the law to resell tickets for more than the original price.​

​

It means True North can't resell tickets in competition with those ticket brokers — and fans can't be sure what they've bought online.​

​

He wants the provincial government to change the laws and allow True North to start its own reselling site.​

​

"We are in this conversation to try and level the playing field so we can provide a safe place for our consumers to go and buy and sell tickets, because they are currently going to an unsafe place to buy and sell tickets," Donnelly said, adding a True North reselling site would assure fans they're buying genuine tickets."​

​

All couched in the traditional TNSE language of "we're doing this for fan convenience" or "air quality" or some bullshit like that...

 

[tbcwpg]

Another hallmark of TNSE over the years is that they just can't stand the thought of anyone else making money off the Jets. Remember their anti-scalping crusade in the early hot-ticket days (followed by them lobbying the province to let TNSE be able to scalp tickets)? This was all before the bottom fell out of the ticket market, of course...

"Donnelly says Manitoba is virtually the only jurisdiction in North America where it's against the law to resell tickets for more than the original price.​

​

It means True North can't resell tickets in competition with those ticket brokers — and fans can't be sure what they've bought online.​

​

He wants the provincial government to change the laws and allow True North to start its own reselling site.​

​

"We are in this conversation to try and level the playing field so we can provide a safe place for our consumers to go and buy and sell tickets, because they are currently going to an unsafe place to buy and sell tickets," Donnelly said, adding a True North reselling site would assure fans they're buying genuine tickets."​

​

All couched in the traditional TNSE language of "we're doing this for fan convenience" or "air quality" or some bullshit like that...

Why should they allow other people to make money off the Jets if they own the Jets?

 

[Hunter368]

Another hallmark of TNSE over the years is that they just can't stand the thought of anyone else making money off the Jets. Remember their anti-scalping crusade in the early hot-ticket days (followed by them lobbying the province to let TNSE be able to scalp tickets)? This was all before the bottom fell out of the ticket market, of course...

"Donnelly says Manitoba is virtually the only jurisdiction in North America where it's against the law to resell tickets for more than the original price.​

​

It means True North can't resell tickets in competition with those ticket brokers — and fans can't be sure what they've bought online.​

​

He wants the provincial government to change the laws and allow True North to start its own reselling site.​

​

"We are in this conversation to try and level the playing field so we can provide a safe place for our consumers to go and buy and sell tickets, because they are currently going to an unsafe place to buy and sell tickets," Donnelly said, adding a True North reselling site would assure fans they're buying genuine tickets."​

​

All couched in the traditional TNSE language of "we're doing this for fan convenience" or "air quality" or some bullshit like that...

I'm confused by this specific complaint, scalping is illegal in some prov's (QC & MB). Literally this makes no sense to complain about, they should crack down on it.

Scalping defined as selling tickets at a significantly higher price then the original sale price. That is literally protecting consumers from scum bags out there, I'm very happy they cracked down on the scum out there who try to pirate off others at an unfair high prices.

You can sell tickets, just not at higher price then their face value IIRC and thats fine. But charging people significantly higher prices is bad.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

My hottest take ever is that scalping is a great thing for the consumer.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I'm confused by this specific complaint, scalping is illegal in some prov's (QC & MB). Literally this makes no sense to complain about, they should crack down on it.

Scalping defined as selling tickets at a significantly higher price then the original sale price. That is literally protecting consumers from scum bags out there

I believe the point being made is that ticket scalping should be an illegal activity to everyone, not just private citizens.

Live Nation has admitted to a long standing practice of pulling tickets and reselling for profit. Just prior to the pandemic recorded conversations emerged with Metallica's tour manager and caused the company to admit to doing this.

Are they still? No need to now that "dynamic pricing, platinum seats & VIP packages have proven to be more effective." To quote Billboard in the fall of 2019 this is all now “standard practice.”

 

[Hunter368]

Why should they allow other people to make money off the Jets if they own the Jets?

My 10 years as a ST holder I had zero complaints about TNSE or arena, ok sure maybe some people do whatever they might be hopefully they are legit complaints and not silly stuff. That being said through my life you can't make some people happy no matter what you do, I mean complaining about not allowing scalping and ripping people off is crazy to me.

Reminds me of the old joke about farmers complaining about winning the lottery bc they only won the 1 million prize and not the 5 million dollar prize.

 

[Hunter368]

I believe the point being made is that ticket scalping should be an illegal activity to everyone, not just private citizens.

Live Nation has admitted to a long standing practice of pulling tickets and reselling for profit. Just prior to the pandemic recorded conversations emerged with Metallica's tour manager and caused the company to admit to doing this.

Are they still? No need to now that "dynamic pricing, platinum seats & VIP packages have proven to be more effective." To quote Billboard in the fall of 2019 this is all now “standard practice.”

Poster said nothing about Live Nation, besides what does Live Nation have to do with TNSE selling Jets tickets?

 

[Gm0ney]

I'm confused by this specific complaint, scalping is illegal in some prov's (QC & MB). Literally this makes no sense to complain about, they should crack down on it.

Scalping defined as selling tickets at a significantly higher price then the original sale price. That is literally protecting consumers from scum bags out there, I'm very happy they cracked down on the scum out there who try to pirate off others at an unfair high prices.

You can sell tickets, just not at higher price then their face value IIRC and thats fine. But charging people significantly higher prices is bad.

You don't get that nobody-makes-money-on-the-Jets-but-us vibe from TNSE?

They were all for enforcing the provincial anti-scalping laws - and taking further action like cancelling season tickets if they caught someone scalping back in 2011. But in 2017, with the prospect of a competitive team on the horizon and when they realized out-of-province entities could scalp with impunity, they went to the government and said "Hey, these other people are making money off the Jets. No fair! Let us scalp too!" But it'll be better for Jets fans because buying through TNSE channels will guarantee the veracity of the scalped tickets...so win-win, I guess.

I mean that's just one example...but locking the arena doors was claimed to be an air quality initiative? In 2012-13 when they got rid of printed tickets, they were going to charge a "convenience fee" for STHs to print their own. Exorbitant Seat Exchange fees in general...I mean they created Seat Exchange to get their pound of flesh from STHs selling their own tickets. And now it's gone from free Whiteout Street Party, to paid tickets (all proceeds to the United Way), to paid tickets (25%-50% proceeds to United Way).

 

[Upperdeckjet]

I don't attend Jets games so it's never a problem.

I lost most of my hearing from meningitis at age 12. Ironically, my dad is a doctor (so is mom, but a Phd) so it was always a short trip, LOL.

A long course of antibiotics damaged mine many years ago. I am highly aware of noisy environments and protect myself the best I can.

 

[surixon]

You don't get that nobody-makes-money-on-the-Jets-but-us vibe from TNSE?

They were all for enforcing the provincial anti-scalping laws - and taking further action like cancelling season tickets if they caught someone scalping back in 2011. But in 2017, with the prospect of a competitive team on the horizon and when they realized out-of-province entities could scalp with impunity, they went to the government and said "Hey, these other people are making money off the Jets. No fair! Let us scalp too!" But it'll be better for Jets fans because buying through TNSE channels will guarantee the veracity of the scalped tickets...so win-win, I guess.

I mean that's just one example...but locking the arena doors was claimed to be an air quality initiative? In 2012-13 when they got rid of printed tickets, they were going to charge a "convenience fee" for STHs to print their own. Exorbitant Seat Exchange fees in general...I mean they created Seat Exchange to get their pound of flesh from STHs selling their own tickets. And now it's gone from free Whiteout Street Party, to paid tickets (all proceeds to the United Way), to paid tickets (25%-50% proceeds to United Way).

I mean it cost over $2 million to pay for those free street parties the first time around. I distinctly remember the Police complaining about the OT costs they had to pay then.

If that fee is going towards the security costs then I'm not really going to complain about it.

 

[Gm0ney]

Why should they allow other people to make money off the Jets if they own the Jets?

Oh, they can pursue all the legal means they want to stifle non-TNSE business from benefitting in any way from the presence of the Jets here. I'm was just pointing out that the hostility to that stuff is part of their culture.

But we're all in this together, right? Aw geez, we don't want the dark days of 1996 to return!

I mean it cost over $2 million to pay for those free street parties the first time around. I distinctly remember the Police complaining about the OT costs they had to pay then.

If that fee is going towards the security costs then I'm not really going to complain about it.

What have we had, 12 playoff home games in 12 season (at least 14 after this year). I think spread out like that, the team can afford it. Maybe they can take it out of the entertainment tax they collect but don't remit to the City?

 

[Hunter368]

You don't get that nobody-makes-money-on-the-Jets-but-us vibe from TNSE?

They were all for enforcing the provincial anti-scalping laws - and taking further action like cancelling season tickets if they caught someone scalping back in 2011. But in 2017, with the prospect of a competitive team on the horizon and when they realized out-of-province entities could scalp with impunity, they went to the government and said "Hey, these other people are making money off the Jets. No fair! Let us scalp too!" But it'll be better for Jets fans because buying through TNSE channels will guarantee the veracity of the scalped tickets...so win-win, I guess.

I mean that's just one example...but locking the arena doors was claimed to be an air quality initiative? In 2012-13 when they got rid of printed tickets, they were going to charge a "convenience fee" for STHs to print their own. Exorbitant Seat Exchange fees. And now it's gone from free Whiteout Street Party, to paid tickets (all proceeds to the United Way), to paid tickets (25%-50% proceeds to United Way).

I'm curious have you ever owned your own business?

Why on God's green earth should any business owner (Jets or otherwise) allow others to make money off their hard work and investment? Sorry I don't understand your logic, it fly's in the face of all logic and business sense.

Example, do you agree with copy right laws? If you don't agree with copy right laws, then no sense continuing this chat b/c.......well lets just say our chat won't be useful or productive to either of us.

Locking the doors? I couldn't give a flying F if they lock the doors.......good that they do. Why would I want them to leave them unlocked?

So your complaining that they are looking any all means to make their business profitable or more profitable? I'll assume you've never owned your own business if that's your POV. Again I don't get why you would care, either you can afford it and want to pay or don't go.....its a choice.

Getting away from printed tickets is a common thing.

Seat exchange rates exorbitant? Compared to? Do you have a study comparing costs around Canada to be able to say or claim that? Personally I never thought they were high, very minor cost to all events I've ever went to, Jets games or otherwise at the arena.

You certainly seem angry at TNSE, I just don't see any of your complaints as reasonable or logical.......at least to me, of course you can feel how ever you want bc you are a consumer. But posting on a public forum your basically asking for others to respond with their experiences and opinions and I'm giving you mine.

STH's sales are down yes, but I suspect there are other reasons why they are down, not the ones your bringing up. If people want to complain about on ice results ok, if they want to complain about on ice results compared to ticket prices.....ok maybe within reason but the Jets are already 2nd lowest in Canada IIRC. But complaining about stopping scalpers, locking doors, etc seems fairly petty to me.

I've had no issues or complaints with the arena or TNSE for my 10 years as a STH. I've never had any complaints going to other events at the arena. My only complaints regarding the team is the on ice results and some decisions around the roster & coaches.

 

[surixon]

I'm curious have you ever owned your own business?

Why on God's green earth should any business owner (Jets or otherwise) allow others to make money off their hard work and investment? Sorry I don't understand your logic, it fly's in the face of all logic and business sense.

Example, do you agree with copy right laws? If you don't agree with copy right laws, then no sense continuing this chat b/c.......well lets just say our chat won't be useful or productive to either of us.

Locking the doors? I couldn't give a flying F if they lock the doors.......good that they do. Why would I want them to leave them unlocked?

So your complaining that they are looking any all means to make their business profitable or more profitable? I'll assume you've never owned your own business if that's your POV. Again I don't get why you would care, either you can afford it and want to pay or don't go.....its a choice.

Getting away from printed tickets is a common thing.

Seat exchange rates exorbitant? Compared to? Do you have a study comparing costs around Canada to be able to say or claim that? Personally I never thought they were high, very minor cost to all events I've ever went to, Jets games or otherwise at the arena.

You certainly seem angry at TNSE, I just don't see any of your complaints as reasonable or logical.......at least to me, of course you can feel how ever you want bc you are a consumer. But posting on a public forum your basically asking for others to respond with their experiences and opinions and I'm giving you mine.

STH's sales are down yes, but I suspect there are other reasons why they are down, not the ones your bringing up. If people want to complain about on ice results ok, if they want to complain about on ice results compared to ticket prices.....ok maybe within reason but the Jets are already 2nd lowest in Canada IIRC. But complaining about stopping scalpers, locking doors, etc seems fairly petty to me.

I've had no issues or complaints with the arena or TNSE for my 10 years as a STH. I've never had any complaints going to other events at the arena. My only complaints regarding the team is the on ice results and some decisions around the roster & coaches.

The whole locking the doors thing to me seems like something every other entertainment entity would do as well. I mean you can't bring cheap stuff into movie theater.

I don't see people leaving bomber games to go for cheaper drinks during half time. Just seems like something to complain about. I'd wager most if not every other NHL team operates the same.

 

[Hunter368]

I mean it cost over $2 million to pay for those free street parties the first time around. I distinctly remember the Police complaining about the OT costs they had to pay then.

If that fee is going towards the security costs then I'm not really going to complain about it.

In the end, some people in life are unhappy about lots of things and as businesses you can't satisfy them no matter what you do and you should just ignore some. The old saying "customer is always right", is completely wrong in reality and I never seen any business I've ever worked in ever follow that POV. That being said, I absolutely agree that the team needs to listen to its fans, specifically common complaints (not one offs or crazy non logical feedback). Jets should be engaging its fan base to listen to them, see what they want, etc. The team should be creative and responsive to the fans, but also realistic and reasonable. Simply if a NHL team can't work in this city then so be it, they can move on.

But some complaints here (on our board) are frivolous IMO and not logical/reasonable. Some complaints are clearly real and should be acted on. I seen the team make a small step IMO that was positive last summer, but I think they can do a lot more to make the game experience more fun and better overall.

 

[surixon]

In the end, some people in life are unhappy about lots of things and as businesses you can't satisfy them no matter what you do and you should just ignore some. The old saying "customer is always right", is completely wrong in reality and I never seen any business I've ever worked in ever follow that POV. That being said, I absolutely agree that the team needs to listen to its fans, specifically common complaints (not one offs or crazy non logical feedback). Jets should be engaging its fan base to listen to them, see what they want, etc. The team should be creative and responsive to the fans, but also realistic and reasonable. Simply if a NHL team can't work in this city then so be it, they can move on.

But some complaints here (on our board) are frivolous IMO and not logical/reasonable. Some complaints are clearly real and should be acted on. I seen the team make a small step IMO that was positive last summer, but I think they can do a lot more to make the game experience more fun and better overall.

Agreed, I didn't care for the messaging of this latest campaign but by and large I have never felt disrespected or unhappy as a seat holder. I haven't liked the product much at times the last few years but that is a different matter entirely.

I do think the org does need to update some of its policies and does need to up its customer service and marketing game to attract and retain seat holders. I don't really know what fans want during a hockey game other then a hockey game so I'm not really sure what they can do about that.

 

[tbcwpg]

But we're all in this together, right? Aw geez, we don't want the dark days of 1996 to return!

Sure we are. Customers buying tickets at face value only to scalp them for higher amounts makes TNSE absolutely no extra money. It doesn't help them at all. It makes zero business sense.

 

[Hunter368]

Agreed, I didn't care for the messaging of this latest campaign but by and large I have never felt disrespected or unhappy as a seat holder. I haven't liked the product much at times the last few years but that is a different matter entirely.

I do think the org does need to update some of its policies and does need to up its customer service and marketing game to attract and retain seat holders. I don't really know what fans want during a hockey game other then a hockey game so I'm not really sure what they can do about that.

Agreed completely, things absolutely can be improved and its the job of TNSE and its staff to figure that out. But to your point in 10 years as a STH I never felt used, disrespected, gouged or anything else negative. After reading this thread today, I really starting thinking back to 2011 and trying to think of any negative experiences my family had..........one situation that did happen not to us but one of our friends who had ST's as well, they contacted their STH account rep multi times and didn't get any response (I don't know all the details how many times they tried or over what), but in the end the acct rep was let go and the new acct rep was great and apologized that no one got back to them sooner. Our acct rep was great, no issues.

Whether its a company or a person who makes a mistake or screws up, its not about screwing up or making a mistake its about what do you do to make it right once you realize or been told you screwed up. Well, part of the sagging ST sales has to do with COVID, many people losing their jobs, on ice results, etc.........but some of those lost sales could of been prevented if the team did different things to make it more enjoyable. I really hope this summer they get creative like some small market USA teams have to get fans entertained and engaged. Then I also hope they make the right steps for the on ice product. I would love to see the team hold some kind of town house with STH's or a big sample size of them to get feedback, plus do some online surveys for STH's & non STH's, etc.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Poster said nothing about Live Nation, besides what does Live Nation have to do with TNSE selling Jets tickets?

you responded to a post regarding the fact True North spent the first fees years feverishly working against scalping only to embrace the concept of secondary resellers once it worked to their advantage.

I brought up Live Nation as secondary reselling has long been their model and has become an accepted industry practice. True North is simply following suit.

It doesn’t make it right tho.