Player Discussion Thomas Chabot (D) Part 2

[h2owned]

Just noticed this tape job on highlight of Chabot's goal. Any other D tape their stick like that!?

 

[Adrianopolous]

We play worse when he's in the lineup

 

[Micklebot]

We play worse when he's in the lineup

Definitely his fault Zub was a minus four and Forsberg could stop anything in the third.

 

[Tuna99]

Chabot looked good with the rest, Giroux looked Horrible in the back to back.

Rest is a weapon

 

[Wondercarrot]

Chabot on pace for 15g 50pts
Career average 12g 49pts

Takeaways vs. Giveaways best since 2017-2018
Playing almost exactly his career average at 23:56/game
He’s -3, team is -25

 

[Icelevel]

Chabot on pace for 15g 50pts
Career average 12g 49pts

Takeaways vs. Giveaways best since 2017-2018
Playing almost exactly his career average at 23:56/game
He’s -3, team is -25

If he can work on and improve his positioning and reaction times then I choose him over chychrun. Otherwise I’d rather work with chychrun.
At this point I’m leaning towards chabot. But it wasn’t long ago it was the opposite.

 

[Wondercarrot]

If he can work on and improve his positioning and reaction times then I choose him over chychrun. Otherwise I’d rather work with chychrun.

I’d only take Chychrun over Chabot if he comes in $2 million less.

 

[Icelevel]

I’d only take Chychrun over Chabot if he comes in $2 million less.

And he should.

 

[Wondercarrot]

And he should.

Yep.
Chabot puts up (as a career average) the same number of goals, 5pts more.
He also excels in transition and move them puck out of the zone, where Chychrun does not.

So it’s not even a “let’s get a better player for less” it’s “let’s keep the lesser player for less.”
I’d like to max out at $5.5 for Chychrun but it’s not likely.
Chabot is not really worth $8 and Chychrun is worth $2 million less than whatever Chabot is worth. Given salary inflation since Chabot signed, I’d be ok with JC at $6 I guess

 

[lancepitlick]

Is there a current NHL player with a worse losing season to winning season ratio than Chabot? Dude is 27 and has never been on a team with a winning record or a positive goal differential.

Came in right as the team started being terrible. Has to wear on him mentally.

 

[PlayOn]

I’d only take Chychrun over Chabot if he comes in $2 million less.

I don’t know if I take Chychrun even then. He makes as many mistakes as Chabot defensively and doesn’t have the same ability to dominate.

He’s gotten worse so I don’t know if it’s mental but I’m not willing to find out either. The other downside of Chychrun over Chabot is even if you sign him for 6x6 (which I think is unlikely), that means he is on the roster for another 7 years. At this point I think there’s an advantage in having less term on whoever you keep, so edge goes to Chabot there who only has 4 years left. It’s an easily tradeable contract in 2 years with some retention if need be.

 

[Adrianopolous]

Is there a current NHL player with a worse losing season to winning season ratio than Chabot? Dude is 27 and has never been on a team with a winning record or a positive goal differential.

Came in right as the team started being terrible. Has to wear on him mentally.

I feel bad for him honestly. At least he got some experience with Karlsson in 2017

 

[Sting]

I feel bad for him honestly. At least he got some experience with Karlsson in 2017

I don't feel that bad. There are a lot of good players who have been saddled to bad teams. Rarely do one of these players get moved and then everyone realizes they're amazing. It's more likely that these "good players" are a big reason why the teams they're on suck.

In Chabot's case, I think when he first came into the league he was a good two-way guy who put a lot of effort into defending. As time went on he either lost a step or simply gave up caring about defending.

 

[bicboi64]

Is there a current NHL player with a worse losing season to winning season ratio than Chabot? Dude is 27 and has never been on a team with a winning record or a positive goal differential.

Came in right as the team started being terrible. Has to wear on him mentally.

Reminds me of Ristolainen.

 

[Loach]

When he scored last night, did he skate by and ignore Kastelic or did I see that wrong?

 

[Xspyrit]

I found him and Stu were among the few bright spots yesterday. Actually, not that everyone played badly but Forsberg, Giroux, Kubalik (as usual) and Zub were big detriments

Is there a current NHL player with a worse losing season to winning season ratio than Chabot? Dude is 27 and has never been on a team with a winning record or a positive goal differential.

Came in right as the team started being terrible. Has to wear on him mentally.

I am actually surprised he hasn't asked for a trade. Go let him shine somewhere else for his own sake. He needs to be on a team that will have him drive the play and have the correct partner and usage. He's not as good as Karlsson but he's similar in a way, he needs his Methot too with a coach that will use him correctly. Not saying Martin isn't, but at the same time, coaching staff never had preparation time and also not a lot of practice time.

 

[Ouroboros]

Is there a current NHL player with a worse losing season to winning season ratio than Chabot? Dude is 27 and has never been on a team with a winning record or a positive goal differential.

Came in right as the team started being terrible. Has to wear on him mentally.

Jeff Skinner is about to hit 1000 games in the NHL and he's yet to play in a single playoff game. 14 years, no postseason. Rasmus Ristolainen is up there too, though he has a shot to make it this year.

It's becoming a pretty rare thing in a league where half the teams make the ploffs.

I don't feel that bad. There are a lot of good players who have been saddled to bad teams. Rarely do one of these players get moved and then everyone realizes they're amazing. It's more likely that these "good players" are a big reason why the teams they're on suck.

In Chabot's case, I think when he first came into the league he was a good two-way guy who put a lot of effort into defending. As time went on he either lost a step or simply gave up caring about defending.

You see this sort of thing quite a bit - I'm reminded of those Florida Panthers team of the mid 2000's with guys like Nathan Horton and Jay Bouwmeester. Every year people were thinking they were on the cusp of a breakout, but it just never came.

It turns out those guys were more suited to being support pieces rather than core guys that could be built around. In fact, both of those guys went on to win Stanley Cups once they were slotted a little lower in the lineup of a good team.

When you're rebuilding somebody has to be anointed as 'the core', but that doesn't necessarily mean they're good enough to have success in that role.

 

[Sting]

You see this sort of thing quite a bit - I'm reminded of those Florida Panthers team of the mid 2000's with guys like Nathan Horton and Jay Bouwmeester. Every year people were thinking they were on the cusp of a breakout, but it just never came.

It turns out those guys were more suited to being support pieces rather than core guys that could be built around. In fact, both of those guys went on to win Stanley Cups once they were slotted a little lower in the lineup of a good team.

When you're rebuilding somebody has to be anointed as 'the core', but that doesn't necessarily mean they're good enough to have success in that role.

Yes this is probably the best way of putting it. There is no way any of our current players are a core member on a contending team.

I think guys like Stu and Sanderson can get there (although they are not right now), but I don't think we have anyone else on the roster capable of that (including Brady, Chabot, Norris, Bath etc).

 

[Loach]

Jeff Skinner is about to hit 1000 games in the NHL and he's yet to play in a single playoff game. 14 years, no postseason. Rasmus Ristolainen is up there too, though he has a shot to make it this year.

It's becoming a pretty rare thing in a league where half the teams make the ploffs.


You see this sort of thing quite a bit - I'm reminded of those Florida Panthers team of the mid 2000's with guys like Nathan Horton and Jay Bouwmeester. Every year people were thinking they were on the cusp of a breakout, but it just never came.

It turns out those guys were more suited to being support pieces rather than core guys that could be built around. In fact, both of those guys went on to win Stanley Cups once they were slotted a little lower in the lineup of a good team.

When you're rebuilding somebody has to be anointed as 'the core', but that doesn't necessarily mean they're good enough to have success in that role.

I don't understand the...it's rare when half the teams make the playoffs. That's 50% of teams. In the 96-97 season 61% of teams made the playoffs. It'll be more common that players don't make the playoffs these days unless more teams are added to the playoffs.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

I don't feel that bad. There are a lot of good players who have been saddled to bad teams. Rarely do one of these players get moved and then everyone realizes they're amazing. It's more likely that these "good players" are a big reason why the teams they're on suck.

In Chabot's case, I think when he first came into the league he was a good two-way guy who put a lot of effort into defending. As time went on he either lost a step or simply gave up caring about defending.

Based on discussion on Tij Iginla, I was checking out Jerome Iginla and his draft year stats and such. What stood out to me and is in line with this discussion, is that when he first came into the NHL, his first 2 games were playoff games and then he went 7 straight years without making the playoffs and the first year that they did after the 7 years, they went to the Cup against the Lightning in 2004 (see below).

I guess that the point is that the team and the player need to stick with it and ride out these lean years. That said, 2024 is much different than 2004 and both sides no longer have the patience to do so.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Yep.
Chabot puts up (as a career average) the same number of goals, 5pts more.
He also excels in transition and move them puck out of the zone, where Chychrun does not.

So it’s not even a “let’s get a better player for less” it’s “let’s keep the lesser player for less.”
I’d like to max out at $5.5 for Chychrun but it’s not likely.
Chabot is not really worth $8 and Chychrun is worth $2 million less than whatever Chabot is worth. Given salary inflation since Chabot signed, I’d be ok with JC at $6 I guess

Chabot has looked better as of late when he’s not injured. There’s still the odd defensive lapse and gaffe though. $8 m cap hit is high though and ideally would be lower. Going to be an interesting off-season and one of the issues will be what to do with our defense.

 

[Micklebot]

Is there a current NHL player with a worse losing season to winning season ratio than Chabot? Dude is 27 and has never been on a team with a winning record or a positive goal differential.

Came in right as the team started being terrible. Has to wear on him mentally.

Maybe Ristolainen? I guess this year in Philly is looking to buck the trend, but he's 29 and yet to make the playoffs. Girgensons is another, 30, always playing in Buf with no playoffs

Most of the time, when you've missed that many years, you either get traded or don't re-sign

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I think the Sens pick whichever of the two is willing to stay. Try to upgrade goaltending, get another defenseman to play with Chych or Chabot . . . maybe add a veteran forward and hope for the best?

If they fail next year . . . watch the f*** out.

 

[JD1]

When he scored last night, did he skate by and ignore Kastelic or did I see that wrong?

It looked like that

 

[Answer]

There is absolutely no way that I am going to trade Chabot unless we are getting a top4 defenseman back.

Just get rid of Chychrun and find a steady top4 RHD to play with Chabot or Sanderson

I am very confident with the bottom top4

Sanderson - RHD (acquired via trade/signing)
Chabot - Zub

Now our core forwards need to get their defensive act together. I am mainly looking at Batherson, Tkachuk and Stutzle