THN - Who'll Stay? Who'll Go? A guide to your TML.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I believe Lilly is gone, and that's fine It's time with him.

I'm 50/50 on Robertson, I've always said I believe he can be a 25 goal scorer, and I do believe that, and the fact that he scored 15, and didn't even start the year with the Leafs only makes me believe that more.

However he is very small, and doesn't seem to be a player to fits what Treliving and Berube say they want to build so we will see.

As for Marner I will believe that when I see it, It's been 8 years and nothing has been done to the core, there have been a couple times I thought they would and they haven't and now It's not up to them It's up to Marner.

.

 

[Menzinger]

With all this talk of dumping Lilly and Robertson...

Lilly is only 25years old people. 25... Still worth it to hold on to him. He has been around for a long time because he played on the Marlies when NA players his age were still in JR. Dmen take longer. I don't think he will explode and become a 1st line pairing dman. He can even out his game and become a solid 2nd pair guy at a reasonable price, then that's gold as a RDman.

Robertson I would like to keep as well. He isn't a large man who hits a lot like our new coach is known to prefer but, that shot. Kid could score 20 from the third line with a little quality PP time.

We have to let players develop. It takes time and players need maturity.

I still think Domi will sign for cheaper than is reported, if not move on. I like the player, I like to story even more. Can't overpay to keep him though.

Bert, I'm fine with letting him go especially considering we paid him 5.5 and he would get a raise! He is a 20-20 man Leafs can't afford that IMO.

I liked Edmonson and would like to see the Leafs make and attempt to keep him at a reasonable price. Give him some of Brodies' money but, only some.

I don't mind Lily,.and agree the Leafs often dump players too early. But stylistically he doesn't quite play the way Tre seems to like, and if Tre wants to continue to change the D (as he's said publicly that he wishes to do), some guys are going to have to go. Reilly, Benoit and McCabe are likely staying, which means Lily looking like the odd man out

 

[Hellcat]

I want to have Domi back, but...

With Dubas legacy of dumping a carp load of money on 5 players, Tre's legacy in Calgary is signing players to insane contracts and then they under achieve, Domi sounds like one of those perfect over pays/ under achieves type Tre blueprint players. Love Domi's spirit, love his hustle, love the different attitude he brings to the team, not sure he is a 6 mil player though. Pluhhhhesss no NTC/NMC for Bert or Domi..

 

[Tak7]

If they can't move off Marner or Tavares, AND they bring back Domi + Bertuzzi, that management press conference where they parrotted the idea of big changes, is going to feel very hollow.

Might be unpopular, but I totally hold onto Robertson, at least for another year - pencil him onto your second or third line, and see what you've got now that he's finally healthy; they need cheap, cost-controlled secondary offense to take the burden off the big guys.

 

[Warden of the North]

Was excited when we drafted Lily after reading all the bullish posts on him. But after seeing him play I keep asking myself how the f*** does Mark Hunter pick this guy over a local boy who played for his London Knights?

Liljegren was considered a top 5 pick at one point. His stock was extremely high. Still riding that wave a bit at the draft.

 

[aingefan]

The patience with a lot of this fan base makes me shake my head. Always eager to pick a guy to run out of town.
Lili has the high ankle sprain after a cheap shot from Marchand, an injury that is notoriously slow to heal and effects mobility. And then injures just before rhe playoffs.
Battled hard, defended well overall - as well as any other leaf D (who weren’t the problem anyway) - and still he’s the biggest problem.
And NickRob, starting to hit his stride, who was…what? 4th in pts/60? And he’s the problem ?
Both guys are RFA with upside still. Equally impactful unrestricted free agents will get double their paycheque and be close to their downswing.
Just shake my head.

 

[arso40]

I don't mind Lily,.and agree the Leafs often dump players too early. But stylistically he doesn't quite play the way Tre seems to like, and if Tre wants to continue to change the D (as he's said publicly that he wishes to do), some guys are going to have to go. Reilly, Benoit and McCabe are likely staying, which means Lily looking like the odd man out

Why when you need 6 dmen to start

The patience with a lot of this fan base makes me shake my head. Always eager to pick a guy to run out of town.
Lili has the high ankle sprain after a cheap shot from Marchand, an injury that is notoriously slow to heal and effects mobility. And then injures just before rhe playoffs.
Battled hard, defended well overall - as well as any other leaf D (who weren’t the problem anyway) - and still he’s the biggest problem.
And NickRob, starting to hit his stride, who was…what? 4th in pts/60? And he’s the problem ?
Both guys are RFA with upside still. Equally impactful unrestricted free agents will get double their paycheque and be close to their downswing.
Just shake my head.

Strongly agree

 

[slozo]

If Marner is even getting shopped - with no certain deal to happen - it's an absolute LOCK that Max Domi gets signed.

He's proved that he can play with Matthews and provide him everything he needs to have success, and he's been a serviceable 2nd line C at times as well. He's honestly meshed way better on this team than I could have hoped for - so it's a no brainer.

 

[Machinae]

Liljegren has all the signs of figuring it out with another organization in his late 20s and becoming another Anton Stralman.

 

[aingefan]

Liljegren has all the signs of figuring it out with another organization in his late 20s and becoming another Anton Stralman.

People also forget that this guy didn’t get a legit sniff until his fifth pro year almost exclusively because of the snug cap situation and the bonus structure in his contract and injury.
Never complained, put in his work and his time, continually evolved his game as asked, and was one of the best D in the A his entire time there.

 

[thewave]

Liljegren has all the signs of figuring it out with another organization in his late 20s and becoming another Anton Stralman.

Do not give up on LIlgrin yet. Not a good move.

 

[Tak7]

The patience with a lot of this fan base makes me shake my head. Always eager to pick a guy to run out of town.
Lili has the high ankle sprain after a cheap shot from Marchand, an injury that is notoriously slow to heal and effects mobility. And then injures just before rhe playoffs.
Battled hard, defended well overall - as well as any other leaf D (who weren’t the problem anyway) - and still he’s the biggest problem.
And NickRob, starting to hit his stride, who was…what? 4th in pts/60? And he’s the problem ?
Both guys are RFA with upside still. Equally impactful unrestricted free agents will get double their paycheque and be close to their downswing.
Just shake my head.

The obvious counter-argument here: even when he has been healthy, he's looked like a fringe NHL Dman, on a team that not only needs defensive help, but has plenty of fringe NHL Dmen.

You'd be onto something if he looked like someone capable of stepping into the top 4, or even an established top 6 guy, but he just doesn't look like a guy that you should be banking on turning intos something significant.

He's given some major right handed Jake Gardiner vibes at times - I know he's young, and Dmen typically peak much later etc., but that would be the very reason why I would consider moving him this off-season; see if you can find a team that views him in those similar lines, and examine what that return would look like, even if he's in a package.

 

[Racer88]

Why don't they give Robertson an increased role?

He does have talent and his scoring relative to ice time is solid... but he can't seem to secure a permanent top six scoring role. He was quite disappointing in the playoffs. If they do move on from him, I want a good return.

As for Lily: it looks like he is what he is at this point. I've been waiting a long time for him to come into his own. It feels like he's been around for ages. He's an NHLer but not a particularly good one. I think he may carve out a Luke Schenn type of career for himself as a guy who can be decent to solid in a bottom-pairing role.

Because Dallas got the good Robertson and we got the not so good Roberston
As far as not giving him a larger role it’s the same as Hyman, his role was to carry the water for Marner and Matthews. His entire job was to get the puck to those two.
Look at him now in Edmonton

 

[Menzinger]

Why when you need 6 dmen to start

Because if Tre wants to change the D, he's going to likely want to do it with more than just 1-2 guys.

 

[Hellcat]

The obvious counter-argument here: even when he has been healthy, he's looked like a fringe NHL Dman, on a team that not only needs defensive help, but has plenty of fringe NHL Dmen.

You'd be onto something if he looked like someone capable of stepping into the top 4, or even an established top 6 guy, but he just doesn't look like a guy that you should be banking on turning intos something significant.

He's given some major right handed Jake Gardiner vibes at times - I know he's young, and Dmen typically peak much later etc., but that would be the very reason why I would consider moving him this off-season; see if you can find a team that views him in those similar lines, and examine what that return would look like, even if he's in a package.

Agree 100% with your post.

Lily looks like a guy that is in his own head, when you see him just let his natural skills take over he is a good bottom d-man. I bet in a city buried in the south, away from the bright lights of Toronto, he'd be a good top 4 defender.

 

[Sypher04]

Talk about ignoring the elephant in the room....

Pretty clear it’s an article about free agents signings vs not. The potential of trading one of the core players doesn’t have to permeate every offseason discussion

 

[Buds17]

I can understand moving Timmins if his cap hit is deemed to be too much for a player who is likely to be a spare part more often than not. I can maybe even rationalize trading away Robertson if the return is good and the winger/forward depth is looked at as being sufficient enough. Unless the contract ask proves to be something outlandish though, what's the great purpose of trading Liljegren?

 

[Menzinger]

I can understand moving Timmins if his cap hit is deemed to be too much for a player who is likely to be a spare part more often than not. I can maybe even rationalize trading away Robertson if the return is good and the winger/forward depth is looked at as being sufficient enough. Unless the contract ask proves to be something outlandish though, what's the great purpose of trading Liljegren?

Mostly to bring in a new/different body/make up for the D.

There's also the issue of value. He still has 'potential' which lessens with each season he doesn't take the next full step.

Again, I don't necessarily think I'd do it but that's the rational I think the front office will use.

 

[TakeTheBody]

Who will stay?

Who will go?

Sounds like a real Clash.

If they go there will be trouble.

 

[Buds17]

Mostly to bring in a new/different body/make up for the D.

There's also the issue of value. He still has 'potential' which lessens with each season he doesn't take the next full step.

Again, I don't necessarily think I'd do it but that's the rational I think the front office will use.

Fair enough. I probably just don't see the need to change anything more than one to two pieces in the starting six and would be fine with adding to Rielly, McCabe, Benoit and Liljegren (while possibly re-signing either of Lyubushkin or Edmundson if it makes sense).

Who will stay?

Who will go?

Sounds like a real Clash.

If they go there will be trouble.

Just have to avoid the double (trouble).

 

[rumman]

The patience with a lot of this fan base makes me shake my head. Always eager to pick a guy to run out of town.
Lili has the high ankle sprain after a cheap shot from Marchand, an injury that is notoriously slow to heal and effects mobility. And then injures just before rhe playoffs.
Battled hard, defended well overall - as well as any other leaf D (who weren’t the problem anyway) - and still he’s the biggest problem.
And NickRob, starting to hit his stride, who was…what? 4th in pts/60? And he’s the problem ?
Both guys are RFA with upside still. Equally impactful unrestricted free agents will get double their paycheque and be close to their downswing.
Just shake my head.

the ankle is a hell of a long way from the heart, Lilly's a coward and that isn't going to change going forward, it's time to move on, and if he has upside he should return a good asset.........

 

[rumman]

People also forget that this guy didn’t get a legit sniff until his fifth pro year almost exclusively because of the snug cap situation and the bonus structure in his contract and injury.
Never complained, put in his work and his time, continually evolved his game as asked, and was one of the best D in the A his entire time there.

I remember the Leafs sitting a better Benoit so Lilly wouldn't get butt hurt going into the playoffs, I'm done with the players who need to be pampered and catered to going forward..........

Who will stay?

Who will go?

Sounds like a real Clash.

If they go there will be trouble.

and if they stay it will be double...............

 

[aingefan]

The obvious counter-argument here: even when he has been healthy, he's looked like a fringe NHL Dman, on a team that not only needs defensive help, but has plenty of fringe NHL Dmen.

You'd be onto something if he looked like someone capable of stepping into the top 4, or even an established top 6 guy, but he just doesn't look like a guy that you should be banking on turning intos something significant.

He's given some major right handed Jake Gardiner vibes at times - I know he's young, and Dmen typically peak much later etc., but that would be the very reason why I would consider moving him this off-season; see if you can find a team that views him in those similar lines, and examine what that return would look like, even if he's in a package.

I get that argument, sure. But it’s a bit of revisionist history that isn’t wholly accurate, I don’t think.
This year: admittedly some struggles that imo are affected by injury, but included a stretch where he anchored a top pair very well, and mostly solid average performance despite injury. Then of course, complaints that he wasn’t exceptional at a role that isn’t his best role.
Last year: pretty much a solid average overall performer, bouncing between 2nd and 3rd pair use, often with a partner who was regressing due to age.
The year before: exceptional third pair play.
The year before: mostly lost to injury. At this point, the guy couldn’t catch a break.
The three years before: some of the best D play in AHL history relative to age, reinventing his game, not getting a chance because of his contract more than anything else. And I keep bringing this up - but he never complained, kept his head down and worked.
This narrative that he’s a fringe NHLer just isn’t true.
Now mind you, im not saying he’s a Norris candidate. But he’s a good D, and the narrative that he’s not has taken off in unfounded ways that ignore context.

the ankle is a hell of a long way from the heart, Lilly's a coward and that isn't going to change going forward, it's time to move on, and if he has upside he should return a good asset.........

That’s judgmental hyperbole.

 

[rumman]

I get that argument, sure. But it’s a bit of revisionist history that isn’t wholly accurate, I don’t think.
This year: admittedly some struggles that imo are affected by injury, but included a stretch where he anchored a top pair very well, and mostly solid average performance despite injury. Then of course, complaints that he wasn’t exceptional at a role that isn’t his best role.
Last year: pretty much a solid average overall performer, bouncing between 2nd and 3rd pair use, often with a partner who was regressing due to age.
The year before: exceptional third pair play.
The year before: mostly lost to injury. At this point, the guy couldn’t catch a break.
The three years before: some of the best D play in AHL history relative to age, reinventing his game, not getting a chance because of his contract more than anything else. And I keep bringing this up - but he never complained, kept his head down and worked.
This narrative that he’s a fringe NHLer just isn’t true.
Now mind you, im not saying he’s a Norris candidate. But he’s a good D, and the narrative that he’s not has taken off in unfounded ways that ignore context.


That’s judgmental hyperbole.

no, it's simply a opinion you disagree with.............

 

[aingefan]

no, it's simply a opinion you disagree with.............

No. It’s an off handed judgmental comment you’ve made about a players character that’s unfounded and you know nothing about. But you go ahead and do you. With ellipses.