This Pittsburgh Penguins Act is Getting Old

[WarriorofTime]

I think relatively quickly is a five year rebuild Ala Chicago compared to the 10+ we've seen in some of those other markets.

Length of a rebuild really just comes to Drafting, which is a mix of scouting, ping pong balls, draft class strength...

There's also some semantics involved in the whole thing about when a team is truly in "rebuild" mode, as there will still be draft picks made and players coming through prior to that. How you drafted in those pre "true rebuild" years will matter a lot as they can make up foundational pieces once you add in the high draft picks from the "true rebuild" to be cornerstones. And then there's semantics on if a "rebuild" means you completely gut everything to really start afresh, at which case it'll be a longer process, or try and do a bit of a half and half thing which may get you back to the postseason quicker if that's the goal....

Anyways, hard to exactly pinpoint something like that.

 

[Bank Shot]

I think relatively quickly is a five year rebuild Ala Chicago compared to the 10+ we've seen in some of those other markets.

Chicago missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 seasons before they managed to assemble their Cup core.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Detroit attempted to contend even after losing Datsyuk and Lidstorm.

The Penguins know exactly what the plan is once Crosby retires.

That could change, but I think having relative certainty about that will help them bounce back relatively quickly. I think relatively quickly is a five year rebuild Ala Chicago compared to the 10+ we've seen in some of those other markets.

Gurg - when you refer to CHI having a 5 year rebuild - are you talking 2005'ish or the current team? Because even though the Hawks lucked out with the Bedard lotto ball - there are NO promises with regard to the current itineration of the team.

Using the mid-aught Hawks as an example - people always point the PK/JT as the key parts as the lottery picks, but when those guys joined the team that already had Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarson, Bolland, Crawford, Bickell, Byfuglien, & Brouwer in the pipeline and only Seabrook was a 1st round DP. That is a ridiculous amount of contribution from outside the 1st round and not something that you can count on in "normal" circumstances.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Detroit attempted to contend even after losing Datsyuk and Lidstorm.

The Penguins know exactly what the plan is once Crosby retires.

That could change, but I think having relative certainty about that will help them bounce back relatively quickly. I think relatively quickly is a five year rebuild Ala Chicago compared to the 10+ we've seen in some of those other markets.

Oof. Don't remind me. The couple wasted years Holland was spending at or near the cap and still icing a bad team instead of laying the groundwork for a rebuild.

 

[Gurglesons]

Gurg - when you refer to CHI having a 5 year rebuild - are you talking 2005'ish or the current team? Because even though the Hawks lucked out with the Bedard lotto ball - there are NO promises with regard to the current itineration of the team.

Using the mid-aught Hawks as an example - people always point the PK/JT as the key parts as the lottery picks, but when those guys joined the team that already had Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarson, Bolland, Crawford, Bickell, Byfuglien, & Brouwer in the pipeline and only Seabrook was a 1st round DP. That is a ridiculous amount of contribution from outside the 1st round and not something that you can count on in "normal" circumstances.

I was speaking about the current rebuild. I guess from my perspective Chicago's rebuild truly began last year with Debrincat and Kane being traded.

 

[BillyOcean]

Honestly if I was a Pens fan none of this shit would bother me at all.

3 Cups in the Crosby era? 4 Cup Finals? Yeah I'm sleeping like a baby every night.

Who cares when the rebuild begins soon or if it takes an extra year or two to come, rebuilds are a dime a dozen, any bozo org can "rebuild" nothing special about that. Very few of them have a multiple Cup haul to show for their previous 15 years.

Just enjoy the time you have with Crosby/Malkin etc., what else is there really even left to accomplish? I get it, would be nice to get one more run in, but that's getting greedy more than anything.

You took a swing on Karlsson for not a huge price, big whoop. It's not the end of the world that maybe it doesn't work out.

If you're a Penguins fan, don't sweat this stuff, 100% a lot of these fans now taking their shots would bend over backwards and kiss their own ass to even have 1 or 2 Cups in the last 15 years.

Believe me, Toronto fans are more upset than we are.

 

[edog37]

Pittsburgh fans must be laughing looking at all the rival fans they completely dominated for a decade come out from under a rock to chirp them now

especially the Flyers fans whose team hasn't been relevant in decades

 

[edog37]

I like Dubas less every time I see his fake politician face. Absolutely hate his smirk from the last 2 press conferences when rightfully asked about Sullivan's job security in Pittsburgh.

You can make the argument the value in the Karlsson trade was getting out of the bad Hextall era contracts. Sure, I'll take that. But it's still a big splash move to acquire an 8 figure earning, Norris winner. EK65 has the biggest cap hit on the team by far. When your GM makes that move, he is saying he's ready to gamble 1/8 of the cap on one singular player - thereby saying, we're happy with our depth. Huge miss by Dooblerson.

My problem is less with Karlsson's performance individually and more with Dubas and his plan. How do you go from big splash, trade of the summer, to full-on sellers by the trade deadline?

How does our absolutely putrid squad from last year, which was somehow still fighting for a playoff spot last game of the season, get even worse this year?

A lot of this falls on Dubas. I don't think it's too early to say that.

This is a pretty asburd take. The team was always going to go splat & now here we are. If you are asking how we arrived here, look at the last couple of years & the catering to the core three as the reason why. The team hasn't won a playoff series since 2018 which is part of the aging out process. That's when the window slammed shut, not this year. Coupled with the fact we traded away the future to win those Cups & you get your answer (note: I would do it all over again too). Dubas was brought it to fix the mess.

 

[BallardEra]

https://thehockeynews.com/news/opinion-this-will-be-a-career-defining-nhl-trade-deadline-for-penguins-gm-kyle-dubas

 

[golfortennis1]

Shockingly the Devils, who are ahead of the Penguins in the standings, fired their coach. Don't they know it's strictly players?

 

[TheAngryHank]

BLOW it up... like all of it...literally all of it..don't stop with the arena.... everything..

 

[BallardEra]

Pens telling Dubas to hold off on the trades!

 

[Empoleon8771]

It is honestly a shame that the Penguins are committing to blowing up their team before even trying to replace the coach. And by "a shame" I mean "absolutely mentally deranged".

Are there any other comparable situations like this? A team that's seemingly underperforming the sum of its parts, but instead of replacing the coach, they just decide to rebuild? It's downright bizarre.

 

[TheAngryHank]

It is honestly a shame that the Penguins are committing to blowing up their team before even trying to replace the coach. And by "a shame" I mean "absolutely mentally deranged".

Are there any other comparable situations like this? A team that's seemingly underperforming the sum of its parts, but instead of replacing the coach, they just decide to rebuild? It's downright bizarre.

His extension hasn't even kicked in.. Coaches aren't baby sitters., if a pro can't self motivate it isn't all on the coach, plus the GM deals the cards.

 

[Wings4Life]

It is honestly a shame that the Penguins are committing to blowing up their team before even trying to replace the coach. And by "a shame" I mean "absolutely mentally deranged".

Are there any other comparable situations like this? A team that's seemingly underperforming the sum of its parts, but instead of replacing the coach, they just decide to rebuild? It's downright bizarre.

It seems absurd that Sullivan hasn't been fired yet. Why did they extend him when taking over the team?

Mindboggling.

 

[ffh]

https://thehockeynews.com/news/opinion-this-will-be-a-career-defining-nhl-trade-deadline-for-penguins-gm-kyle-dubas

Career defining sounds a little over dramatic.

 

[golfortennis1]

His extension hasn't even kicked in.. Coaches aren't baby sitters., if a pro can't self motivate it isn't all on the coach, plus the GM deals the cards.

It isn't even motivation. Special teams are coaching, and when you have a Karlsson and Crosby especially, your power play should not be historically bad. And even outside of that, you have Jeff Carter getting more minutes constantly than a younger guy who actually does some things. Guys have been ridden off over time(Ian Cole for example), or sent back down because who only knows why Sullivan does what he does. Line setting has been head scratching as well. Karlsson and Petterson were a very effective pair early on, so naturally they couldn't be allowed to continue.

It has been 6 years since a playoff series win. The only constants have been Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel, and Sullivan. Malkin is sadly starting to show his age, so you can put a bit of blame on him. Letang, who I hate get on too hard given the man has had a couple of strokes and still continues to play fairly well, has always been hockey's equivalent of the "million dollar arm, 10 cent brain" pitcher, so maybe he bears some brunt. Guentzel puts the puck in the net enough to overcome his drawbacks, and Crosby is Crosby on the ice. Which leaves Sullivan. At some point, the guy who is making the decisions about who goes on the ice, what style/formations you're going to play has to come under scrutiny.

He has turned over assistant coaches enough times that he can't even blame them anymore. The man has to go.

 

[nturn06]

Detroit attempted to contend even after losing Datsyuk and Lidstorm.

The Penguins know exactly what the plan is once Crosby retires.

That could change, but I think having relative certainty about that will help them bounce back relatively quickly. I think relatively quickly is a five year rebuild Ala Chicago compared to the 10+ we've seen in some of those other markets.

You do realize that Dubas is the GM, don't you?

 

[lokomotiv15]

It is honestly a shame that the Penguins are committing to blowing up their team before even trying to replace the coach. And by "a shame" I mean "absolutely mentally deranged".

Are there any other comparable situations like this? A team that's seemingly underperforming the sum of its parts, but instead of replacing the coach, they just decide to rebuild? It's downright bizarre.

I will agree here. I don't think I can ever remember a coach in any organization having a longer leash; For better or for worse, teams almost always fire the coach before/instead of blowing up the entire roster. Sully has seen a handful of complete roster re-tools, had no meaningful success in 6 years, considering the roster, and is still here. At this point it seems only Crosby is more cemented into this organization than Mike Sullivan.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I was speaking about the current rebuild. I guess from my perspective Chicago's rebuild truly began last year with Debrincat and Kane being traded.

That makes total sense - and agree on the start date. The problem with evaluating the Hawks current rebuild date is that while it's off to a good start (IMO), it's proven nothing. Hawks could easily end up as Sabres V2 with Eichel struggling to turn his personal production into team success. Need a signficant amount of time to have any sort of realistic evaluation.

 

[Slimmy]

I can't see them trading away Guentzel or anyone of value at this point. I think they will try to add someone that they think will help them on their PP. This team is still committed and think they can turn it around and get a spot in the PO's. With how weak their division is with only a handful of points to reach a wildcard spot, they aren't going to blow it up. Right or wrong, I'm sure they still think they have a shot at making it.

But, I'm also sure they are listening in on calls for their players to see what they can get. If it's nothing outrageous, I don't see a move. I could be wrong, though. Very wrong.

 

[Pez68]

People act like the Penguins are bad because some of their super stars are old now. Letang and Malkin are playing for 6MM cap hits. They are not overpaid by any stretch. Crosby is still a steal at 8.7. Guentzel is a point per game at 6MM. Tristan Jarry leads the league in shutouts.

The one big ticket player you could want more from is Karlsson and he still on pace for 60 points.

This team is bad because the powerplay is bad. That's coaching.

You mentioned 5 players. How about the other dozen or so?

 

[RogerRoger]

This is a pretty asburd take. The team was always going to go splat & now here we are. If you are asking how we arrived here, look at the last couple of years & the catering to the core three as the reason why. The team hasn't won a playoff series since 2018 which is part of the aging out process. That's when the window slammed shut, not this year. Coupled with the fact we traded away the future to win those Cups & you get your answer (note: I would do it all over again too). Dubas was brought it to fix the mess.

Is there any appetite from Pitts fans to trade away the core 3 (4) to massively kickstart a rebuild with a bevy of great picks?

 

[Midnight Judges]

It is honestly a shame that the Penguins are committing to blowing up their team before even trying to replace the coach. And by "a shame" I mean "absolutely mentally deranged".

Are there any other comparable situations like this? A team that's seemingly underperforming the sum of its parts, but instead of replacing the coach, they just decide to rebuild? It's downright bizarre.

Could be worse - they could have pushed him out while winning the cup in 2016.

As dumb as that sounds…

 

[Beau Knows]

Pens vs Caps tonight, not that long ago that those felt like must-watch games.

Now both teams are incredibly boring to watch, and Malkin and Ovechkin have declined pretty badly.