This Pittsburgh Penguins Act is Getting Old

[Breakers]

It is surprising some of the comments that can’t make the connection between depth and cap space.

So you say Karlsson is playing well, and the problem is depth.
An 8 figure AAV cap hit limits your depth.

2 things can be true at the same time. It’s not either or.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

No because you're looking at this the wrong way. It wasn't like they had 10m cap space available in a vacuum that they could use on depth instead of EK.

They had to trade Petry, Granlund, and Rutta just to take on the EK contract, and the only reason SJ/Detroit took those players is because they had to in order to make the trade work.

There was no situation where Dubas could just trade Petry, Granlund, and Rutta for nothing and then address the depth with the magically available cap space he got for moving those guys out.

You think the Red Wings took Petry to help make a trade work for the Penguins?

For what it's worth Petry doesn't set the world on fire but he's playing 19 minutes a night for $2.3 million and has been solid if unspectacular.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You think the Red Wings took Petry to help make a trade work for the Penguins?

For what it's worth Petry doesn't set the world on fire but he's playing 19 minutes a night for $2.3 million and has been solid if unspectacular.

Petry is not bad, agree.

 

[CaptainShark]

Posted this in the Sharks forum already, but didn’t get a lot of responses.

Pens traded their 1st this year to the Sharks top-10-protected. In that case it becomes a 2025 1st unprotected. Right now, there is a chance, the pick ends up in the 8-10 range.

Given the state of the Pens, there is a realistic chance that they are even worse next season. Getting older, losing Guentzel and probably not going to attract good UFAs.

In that case, would Dubas waive the protection on this years pick (basically telling the whole world, he expects things to get worse before they get better)?

 

[Donnie740]

Do any of the bolded guys move the needle for the Pens? At all? I get there are other ways to spend Karlsson's salary, but then you're also dealing with the anchors that were Granlund and Petry. IMO - Karlsson deal was giving the Pens' a puncher's chance. It didn't work out, but then the VAST, VAST majority of deals don't deliver the ultimate prize.

Let’s be honest - - Pittsburgh wasn’t a playoff team last year and with the old veterans being a year older, they didn’t have a hope in hell of being a championship contender this year regardless of how well Karlsson played.

That should have been obvious to everyone last summer.

So it’s not about “moving the needle” to get closer to a championship. It’s about getting capable veterans on affordable 1yr contracts who can keep the team respectable - - maybe even contend for the last playoff spot - - but then be flipped at the deadline for future picks and prospects.

Ultimately it likely wouldn’t have mattered because Dumbass isn’t very good at trading when he’s not in the position of strength. As evidenced by his bungled mishandling of the Zach Hyman situation.

Can’t wait to see him in action at the deadline.

 

[Soundwave]

Honestly if I was a Pens fan none of this shit would bother me at all.

3 Cups in the Crosby era? 4 Cup Finals? Yeah I'm sleeping like a baby every night.

Who cares when the rebuild begins soon or if it takes an extra year or two to come, rebuilds are a dime a dozen, any bozo org can "rebuild" nothing special about that. Very few of them have a multiple Cup haul to show for their previous 15 years.

Just enjoy the time you have with Crosby/Malkin etc., what else is there really even left to accomplish? I get it, would be nice to get one more run in, but that's getting greedy more than anything.

You took a swing on Karlsson for not a huge price, big whoop. It's not the end of the world that maybe it doesn't work out.

If you're a Penguins fan, don't sweat this stuff, 100% a lot of these fans now taking their shots would bend over backwards and kiss their own ass to even have 1 or 2 Cups in the last 15 years.

 

[Donnie740]

Posted this in the Sharks forum already, but didn’t get a lot of responses.

Pens traded their 1st this year to the Sharks top-10-protected. In that case it becomes a 2025 1st unprotected. Right now, there is a chance, the pick ends up in the 8-10 range.

Given the state of the Pens, there is a realistic chance that they are even worse next season. Getting older, losing Guentzel and probably not going to attract good UFAs.

In that case, would Dubas waive the protection on this years pick (basically telling the whole world, he expects things to get worse before they get better)?

The 2025 draft is going to be much stronger than this year’s draft.

So if you’re a SJ fan you definitely have to hope it defers.

 

[Pancakes]

You think the Red Wings took Petry to help make a trade work for the Penguins?

For what it's worth Petry doesn't set the world on fire but he's playing 19 minutes a night for $2.3 million and has been solid if unspectacular.

Petry was the most valuable of the bunch that was moved, I'll give you that.

Regardless, I don't think the Pens are cap dumping Granlund and Rutta last off season. They were getting moved in an EK deal or not at all. Maybe the Pens could have cap dumped those guys if they paid assets to do it, but is that really a better thing to do than grabbing EK who has been a big help for the team?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Honestly if I was a Pens fan none of this shit would bother me at all.

3 Cups in the Crosby era? 4 Cup Finals? Yeah I'm sleeping like a baby every night.

Who cares when the rebuild begins soon or if it takes an extra year or two to come, rebuilds are a dime a dozen, any bozo org can "rebuild" nothing special about that. Very few of them have a multiple Cup haul to show for their previous 15 years.

As a fan of a team that isn't too different from that, the Cups are nice, definitely, but that's the past. You don't just stop paying attention and not wanting them to do better/have a course of action to become better just to revel in the past.

 

[Soundwave]

As a fan of a team that isn't too different from that, the Cups are nice, definitely, but that's the past. You don't just stop paying attention and not wanting them to do better/have a course of action to become better just to revel in the past.

The Cups aren't just "nice", the Cups are the whole damn point. The point isn't to just rebuild for the sake of rebuilding, any team can do that.

Understand there are franchises that have never even won one Cup.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Cups aren't just "nice", the Cups are the whole damn point. The point isn't to just rebuild for the sake of rebuilding, any team can do that.

Understand there are franchises that have never even won one Cup.

Yes, I understand, it is disappointing when your team gets close and never got there, and much more satisfying to look back and be glad that they did... but sports fandom is far more about the journey than the destination. It is not a thing where you check a box that says "saw them win a Championship" and stop watching.

Wanting them to do better, regardless of the results of the past, is not unreasonable. The past stays the past no matter what, the future is the only thing that has the potential to change.

 

[Soundwave]

Yes, I understand, it is disappointing when your team gets close and never got there, and much more satisfying to look back and be glad that they did... but sports fandom is far more about the journey than the destination. It is not a thing where you check a box that says "saw them win a Championship" and stop watching.

Wanting them to do better, regardless of the results of the past, is not unreasonable. The past stays the past no matter what, the future is the only thing that has the potential to change.

Honestly f*** the future, lol.

All these teams that think they're going to "rebuild the right way" right now, the brutal truth to that is like 99% of them will never win shit in the future let alone win multiple times. Or you end wandering the wild for a decade+ like Buffalo.

When you win a Cup, it's yours, no one can take that away from you. The memories live forever, the future is just some magic beans of hopes and wishes that most likely will never turn out.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Honestly f*** the future, lol.

All these teams that think they're going to "rebuild the right way" right now, the brutal truth to that is like 99% of them will never win shit in the future let alone win multiple times. Or you end wandering the wild for a decade+ like Buffalo.

When you win a Cup, it's yours, no one can take that away from you. The memories live forever, the future is just some magic beans of hopes and wishes that most likely will never turn out.

Sure, but what are you supposed to do? Fan retire because they won enough Cups to satisfy a lifetime? Not root for better days to come when things aren't going great at the moment? The further back Cups are, the more they lose their "glow" to speak.

 

[coooldude]

The Cups aren't just "nice", the Cups are the whole damn point. The point isn't to just rebuild for the sake of rebuilding, any team can do that.

Understand there are franchises that have never even won one Cup.

Yes, I understand, it is disappointing when your team gets close and never got there, and much more satisfying to look back and be glad that they did... but sports fandom is far more about the journey than the destination. It is not a thing where you check a box that says "saw them win a Championship" and stop watching.

Wanting them to do better, regardless of the results of the past, is not unreasonable. The past stays the past no matter what, the future is the only thing that has the potential to change.

You can only say these things when you have won a cup.

I had an honest discussion with my Mariners fan friend about how many years we would lose off the end of our lives so that our teams could win their first championship before our dads died.

Franchises like Chicago and Pittsburgh truly do not understand how lucky they have been and comments like these are clear examples. It's very easy to say "the past is the past" when you won multiple championships with generational talents.

And to anyone thinking it, spare the lecture with "you need to get your priorities straight" or "it's just a game." Tell that to multiple generations of fathers from Vancouver, Buffalo, San Jose, Toronto even, and many more. Sports are dumb and silly, yeah no shit, but they end up being pretty important in very intimate ways.

 

[Gurglesons]

As a fan of a team that isn't too different from that, the Cups are nice, definitely, but that's the past. You don't just stop paying attention and not wanting them to do better/have a course of action to become better just to revel in the past.

I mean, I don't agree.

This Penguins core is upsetting and disappointing the last few years, but we have 4 SCFs out of them. Can't get much better than that.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Dubas is a snake oil salesman that didn't learn from his first go around in the league lol.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't know how that slander has persisted - coming almost entirely from Canada and Pittsburgh. Maybe being dishonest towards Ovechkin just feels normal among Canadians at this point.

It's odd, all his former teammates and coaches have nothing but great things to say about him, but people insist all the same Ovechkin is this horrible menace who will actively undermine team success in pursuit of his goal totals.

I mean, I don't agree.

This Penguins core is upsetting and disappointing the last few years, but we have 4 SCFs out of them. Can't get much better than that.

My point is that it's not an "either/or". Wanting better things for next year doesn't make the Cups go away.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Honestly if I was a Pens fan none of this shit would bother me at all.

3 Cups in the Crosby era? 4 Cup Finals? Yeah I'm sleeping like a baby every night.

Who cares when the rebuild begins soon or if it takes an extra year or two to come, rebuilds are a dime a dozen, any bozo org can "rebuild" nothing special about that. Very few of them have a multiple Cup haul to show for their previous 15 years.

Just enjoy the time you have with Crosby/Malkin etc., what else is there really even left to accomplish? I get it, would be nice to get one more run in, but that's getting greedy more than anything.

You took a swing on Karlsson for not a huge price, big whoop. It's not the end of the world that maybe it doesn't work out.

If you're a Penguins fan, don't sweat this stuff, 100% a lot of these fans now taking their shots would bend over backwards and kiss their own ass to even have 1 or 2 Cups in the last 15 years.

Great post and agree 100%.

My interpretation is the Pens loyalty to SC made them feel like they needed to take one more kick at the can. In the big scheme of things - they made a relatively low-risk move by acquiring EK. At the end of the day - it's REALLY, REALLY hard to acquire the elite players they had on the roster and they probably doubled down on a bad hand chasing a big pot.

When it comes time to for the Pens to rebuild (and that's rapidly approaching) it's going to be an extended, tough process. That isn't because of Dubas - but the 10-15 year stretch of excellence where they traded futures to improve their play-off chances, and consistently drafting at the end of the round. LIkewise - the decision to try and make a run this year were made above Dubas' level and he did the best with what he had.

Not sure if Dubas is the guy I want at the helm during a rebuild, but Pen's ownership must have been VERY confident with the contract they gave him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Great post and agree 100%.

My interpretation is the Pens loyalty to SC made them feel like they needed to take one more kick at the can. In the big scheme of things - they made a relatively low-risk move by acquiring EK. At the end of the day - it's REALLY, REALLY hard to acquire the elite players they had on the roster and they probably doubled down on a bad hand chasing a big pot.

When it comes time to for the Pens to rebuild (and that's rapidly approaching) it's going to be an extended, tough process. That isn't because of Dubas - but the 10-15 year stretch of excellence where they traded futures to improve their play-off chances, and consistently drafting at the end of the round. LIkewise - the decision to try and make a run this year were made above Dubas' level and he did the best with what he had.

Not sure if Dubas is the guy I want at the helm during a rebuild, but Pen's ownership must have been VERY confident with the contract they gave him.

I don't think it will be if they are smart about continuing to go for it over the next few years.

The Penguins cap picture is relatively clean at the end of the Karlsson deal.

They will bottom out completely for a few years.

The next few years may be more painful than the rebuild as they seem rudderless and unwilling to go all in (or even fire an underachieving coach).

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Honestly if I was a Pens fan none of this shit would bother me at all.

3 Cups in the Crosby era? 4 Cup Finals? Yeah I'm sleeping like a baby every night.

Who cares when the rebuild begins soon or if it takes an extra year or two to come, rebuilds are a dime a dozen, any bozo org can "rebuild" nothing special about that. Very few of them have a multiple Cup haul to show for their previous 15 years.

Just enjoy the time you have with Crosby/Malkin etc., what else is there really even left to accomplish? I get it, would be nice to get one more run in, but that's getting greedy more than anything.

You took a swing on Karlsson for not a huge price, big whoop. It's not the end of the world that maybe it doesn't work out.

If you're a Penguins fan, don't sweat this stuff, 100% a lot of these fans now taking their shots would bend over backwards and kiss their own ass to even have 1 or 2 Cups in the last 15 years.

Pittsburgh fans must be laughing looking at all the rival fans they completely dominated for a decade come out from under a rock to chirp them now

 

[Zbynek]

I like Dubas less every time I see his fake politician face. Absolutely hate his smirk from the last 2 press conferences when rightfully asked about Sullivan's job security in Pittsburgh.

You can make the argument the value in the Karlsson trade was getting out of the bad Hextall era contracts. Sure, I'll take that. But it's still a big splash move to acquire an 8 figure earning, Norris winner. EK65 has the biggest cap hit on the team by far. When your GM makes that move, he is saying he's ready to gamble 1/8 of the cap on one singular player - thereby saying, we're happy with our depth. Huge miss by Dooblerson.

My problem is less with Karlsson's performance individually and more with Dubas and his plan. How do you go from big splash, trade of the summer, to full-on sellers by the trade deadline?

How does our absolutely putrid squad from last year, which was somehow still fighting for a playoff spot last game of the season, get even worse this year?

A lot of this falls on Dubas. I don't think it's too early to say that.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

You can only say these things when you have won a cup.

I had an honest discussion with my Mariners fan friend about how many years we would lose off the end of our lives so that our teams could win their first championship before our dads died.

Franchises like Chicago and Pittsburgh truly do not understand how lucky they have been and comments like these are clear examples. It's very easy to say "the past is the past" when you won multiple championships with generational talents.

And to anyone thinking it, spare the lecture with "you need to get your priorities straight" or "it's just a game." Tell that to multiple generations of fathers from Vancouver, Buffalo, San Jose, Toronto even, and many more. Sports are dumb and silly, yeah no shit, but they end up being pretty important in very intimate ways.

Another great post.

As a Hawks fan who suffered through almost 20 years of just crap before the team got good, I never expected them to win in my lifetime. I 100% know how lucky the organization was, and all the things that had to go right for them to win the Cups.

There was a movie called Invincible from about 15 years ago about a guy who "walked on" and made the Eagles in the 70's. There is an amazing scene where the guy is talking to his dad, and his dad talks about seeing the Eagles winning a championship back in the day helped him get through a 40 year career working in the factory day in and day out. This is one of those "generational" things that I think that younger fans are less able to comprehend because there is so much more going on now-a-days and people are multi-tasking which reduces the focus on any one thing. There are a bunch of "old-timers" who have invested more than people understand.

 

[Darren McCord]

Posted this in the Sharks forum already, but didn’t get a lot of responses.

Pens traded their 1st this year to the Sharks top-10-protected. In that case it becomes a 2025 1st unprotected. Right now, there is a chance, the pick ends up in the 8-10 range.

Given the state of the Pens, there is a realistic chance that they are even worse next season. Getting older, losing Guentzel and probably not going to attract good UFAs.

In that case, would Dubas waive the protection on this years pick (basically telling the whole world, he expects things to get worse before they get better)?

As a pens fan I hope he waves and gives this years up if its around 8 - 12. They could still end up out of the top 10 this year anyways. They aren't getting better between now and next year and if they somehow miraculous do who cares if they gave up a number 12 pick.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I don't think it will be if they are smart about continuing to go for it over the next few years.

The Penguins cap picture is relatively clean at the end of the Karlsson deal.

They will bottom out completely for a few years.

The next few years may be more painful than the rebuild as they seem rudderless and unwilling to go all in (or even fire an underachieving coach).

Gurglesons - what you describe (relatively clean cap) really means very little in the big scheme of the "ease" of a rebuild. You need a BUNCH of things to go right, and very rarely is it a "quick" process.

Did the cap keep DET from doing making any of the moves they wanted to? Would avoiding a couple of Holland's terrible late contract really have changed the trajectory of the Wings rebuild? They've been hard at it for at least 5 years. Same with a team like OTT, or BUFF.

 

[Gurglesons]

Gurglesons - what you describe (relatively clean cap) really means very little in the big scheme of the "ease" of a rebuild. You need a BUNCH of things to go right, and very rarely is it a "quick" process.

Did the cap keep DET from doing making any of the moves they wanted to? Would avoiding a couple of Holland's terrible late contract really have changed the trajectory of the Wings rebuild? They've been hard at it for at least 5 years. Same with a team like OTT, or BUFF.

Detroit attempted to contend even after losing Datsyuk and Lidstorm.

The Penguins know exactly what the plan is once Crosby retires.

That could change, but I think having relative certainty about that will help them bounce back relatively quickly. I think relatively quickly is a five year rebuild Ala Chicago compared to the 10+ we've seen in some of those other markets.