This Pittsburgh Penguins Act is Getting Old

[Empoleon8771]

Granlund has shown himself to be pretty good depth this year. They could have likely parlayed Petry to Detroit with retention, even if not he'd still be a functional 2nd pairing D. Rutta had value even if it was low and himself is a good depth player. Instead Dubas watched one of the biggest roster dysfunctions in recent history of having Burns and Karlsson tripping over each other for several years and thought hey what if I run that back but with an even more Karlsson like D even more set in his role than Burns.

Lmfao no he's not. He's a point producer on a shit team.

You're outing yourself as not watching the Penguins whatsoever.

 

[WarriorofTime]

100%. People blaming Dubas for the EK trade have no clue what the actual issues of the Pens are.

The Pens are crap because their depth stinks and they have a coach who is past his expiration date. EK has nothing to do with either of those two issues.

I think the biggest issue with acquiring Karlsson is that they are losing a 1st round pick in a no playoff season (and no 2nd next season) with grim looking future prospects and that it's tying up substantial cap for multiple years to the guy. Not as much, "Karlsson is the reason the Pens are bad in 2023-24"

DRAFT	ROUND 1	ROUND 2	ROUND 3	ROUND 4	ROUND 5	ROUND 6	ROUND 7
2024	Traded		Traded		Traded
2025		Traded
2026						Traded

 

[8To34]

Dubas is pretty hampered by a clearly past expiration date Sullivan being untouchable but he still chose the completely wrong strategy to deal with it. He should have channeled Zito or Waddell and tried to round out his roster as efficiently as possible. Platoon with 2 cheap goalies with upside (same Nejdelkovic and DeSmith) instead of committing to Jarry. Get some of Cole, Zadorov, Mikkola, Walker, Durzi, Gustafsson cheaply and give them a chance to pop on defense instead of somehow surmising that Ryan Graves was the answer. Go for JVR or Tarasenko or Bjugstad instead of trading for multiple years of downhill Reilly Smith. Eller was pretty much the only signing of the type and has been seemingly his best move so far

 

[Pancakes]

Granlund has shown himself to be pretty good depth this year. They could have likely parlayed Petry to Detroit with retention, even if not he'd still be a functional 2nd pairing D. Rutta had value even if it was low and himself is a good depth player. Instead Dubas watched one of the biggest roster dysfunctions in recent history of having Burns and Karlsson tripping over each other for several years and thought hey what if I run that back but with an even more Karlsson like D even more set in his role than Burns.

I guess we'll never know but I doubt all of this.

Also even in a hypothetical scenario where the Pens do free up that 10m salary and just spend it on free agents instead...I doubt they're better off than having Erik Karlsson, who has had very positive impacts on the team this year.

The issue again was how Dubas chose to use the rest of the cap space. Guys like Acciari and Nieto have sucked and not made a noticeable impact. Graves was a huge miss. Keeping Sullivan was very stupid.

 

[Donnie740]

There was no situation where Dubas could just trade Petry, Granlund, and Rutta for nothing and then address the depth with the magically available cap space he got for moving those guys out.

An extra $2M+ in cap room would have signed at least one and possibly two of the FAs I mentioned previously. And it would have given Pittsburgh an extra draft pick.

Now let’s see what the Sharks get for Granlund at the deadline.

 

[8To34]

Lmfao no he's not. He's a point producer on a shit team.

You're outing yourself as not watching the Penguins whatsoever.

Yeah thats what depth is. Do you have any actual critique of his play this year beyond being on a shitty team? Because a certain D your GM has acquired was literally the king of point producers on a shit team just a year ago (same exact shit team to boot)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dubas is pretty hampered by a clearly past expiration date Sullivan being untouchable but he still chose the completely wrong strategy to deal with it. He should have channeled Zito or Waddell and tried to round out his roster as efficiently as possible. Platoon with 2 cheap goalies with upside (same Nejdelkovic and DeSmith) instead of committing to Jarry. Get some of Cole, Zadorov, Mikkola, Walker, Durzi, Gustafsson cheaply and give them a chance to pop on defense instead of somehow surmising that Ryan Graves was the answer. Go for JVR or Tarasenko or Bjugstad instead of trading for multiple years of downhill Reilly Smith. Eller was pretty much the only signing of the type and has been seemingly his best move so far

Those are all valid criticisms of him. Criticizing him for not keeping Petry or Granlund isn't a valid criticism.

Yeah thats what depth is. Do you have any actual critique of his play this year beyond being on a shitty team? Because a certain D your GM has acquired was literally the king of point producers on a shit team just a year ago (same exact shit team to boot)

Granlund is the same played he has always been with San Jose: he's a guy that needs to be forcefed minutes in order to produce.

His 5v5 points/60 this year is 1.4. If he was being used in a 3rd line role instead of a 1st line role, he'd have like 20 points on the year. Getting out of his deal was an absolute no-brainer for the Penguins.

 

[Pancakes]

I think the biggest issue with acquiring Karlsson is that they are losing a 1st round pick in a no playoff season with grim looking future prospects and that it's tying up substantial cap for multiple years to the guy. Not as much, "Karlsson is the reason the Pens are bad in 2023-24"

EK's contract fits in pretty nicely timeline-wise with Crosby so I don't really see the issue there. The Pens will never fully blow it up as long as Sid is here. Sid most likely re-signs for like 2-3 years next year which would make his and EK's deals expire around the same time.

Losing the first round pick is a blow. There's no getting around that. How much of a blow that will be will depend on whether Dubas can make the Pens reasonably competitive next year.

The pick is lottery protected so in the event the Pens move into the top 10 and get a high pick they'll just keep it anyways. And then hopefully not hand San Jose a lottery pick next year but there's enough pieces left on the team that that shouldn't happen unless Dubas/Sullivan really f*** things up again (and I hate to say it but that's a realistic possibility based on how this year has gone and how f-ing stale Sullivan is).

Even if disaster strikes and they hand San Jose a good pick next year they should still be in halfway decent shape prospect wise from the high pick they should get this year + the haul they can get for Guentzel and other players they may choose to move.

 

[Matty Sundin]

Wouldn’t say it’s all Dubas fault as the team still has Hextall/Burke fingerprints all over it. The Karlsson trade isnt really a diaster as he can still play but he wasn’t a fit or a need there. That’s usually a Dubas signature move special.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Kind of a fitting end to it all that Washington and Pittsburgh are basically in the same boat with riding it down as far as it'll go with Crosby and Ovechkin and not committing to rebuilds as long as they're there, so they'll just keep shooting for the middle for the next couple years until forced to give in.

 

[66-30-33]

Wouldn’t say it’s all Dubas fault as the team still has Hextall/Burke fingerprints all over it. The Karlsson trade isnt really a diaster as he can still play but he wasn’t a fit or a need there. That’s usually a Dubas signature move special.

Nothing wrong with the Karlsson trade if you look at the players gone from the trade, seemed like a no brainer trade. Just didn't work out, probably because Sullivan is trying to coach Karlsson instead of letting him play.

 

[King Woodballs]

I think Sid is a problem in Pittsburgh and Ovi is a problem in Washington.
As long as they are on their teams, I bet management feels obligated to patch work an over the hill and under talented team together.
Prolonging their much needed re-builds.

 

[NVious]

I think Sid is a problem in Pittsburgh and Ovi is a problem in Washington.
As long as they are on their teams, I bet management feels obligated to patch work an over the hill and under talented team together.
Prolonging their much needed re-builds.

Ovi is chasing Gretzky, it only makes sense for him to break the record in a Caps jersey, Sid really doesn't have much to play for in Pittsburgh unless he wants to catch Lemieux that badly I guess.

 

[King Woodballs]

Ovi is chasing Gretzky, it only makes sense for him to break the record in a Caps jersey, Sid really doesn't have much to play for in Pittsburgh unless he wants to catch Lemieux that badly I guess.

I get it, and if Ovi only cares about the record and not winning championships.
Let him fill his boots.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think after the Crosby era is over in Pittsburgh, they're a last place team again. Which would be nice considering the team should get a break from being competitive.

 

[66-30-33]

I think after the Crosby era is over in Pittsburgh, they're a last place team again. Which would be nice considering the team should get a break from being competitive.

I say trade him to Colorado!!

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I think after the Crosby era is over in Pittsburgh, they're a last place team again. Which would be nice considering the team should get a break from being competitive.

HFB's going to lose their mind when they draft the next two generational players.

 

[BillyOcean]

Clearly the Penguins long-standing issues are solely to blame on a guy who joined the organizations front office about 7 months ago. Lot of galaxy brains here....all from the same place too. Weird.

 

[PaulD]

I say trade him to Colorado!!

or Boston

 

[66-30-33]

or Boston

Colorado. Bruins can trade the rat to Colorado too and they can for the BFF line.

Rat-Crosby-MacKinnon

 

[PaulD]

Clearly the Penguins long-standing issues are solely to blame on a guy who joined the organizations front office about 7 months ago. Lot of galaxy brains here....all from the same place too. Weird.

Ive never heard anyone say "soley to blame" on anyone. Including Dubas. He just didn't help the sinking ship.
Contributing factors -
Not replacing Sullivan years ago. Shelf life is dead on this guy.
Not replacing coaching staff years ago.
Signing Graves to that ludicrous contract.
First rounder in Karlsson deal??
Signing Jarry long term.

Just for starters.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

For a team that is 4th in GA in the league, this result is somewhat surprising. Obviously, the offense besides Sid/Jake has been pretty terrible, but you would figure they'd be more middle of the pack especially with EK/Letang on the back end.

Should consider trading Sid to Colorado for a 3rd round pick.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Instead of flushing almost $20M - - PLUS draft picks and prospects- - down the toilet for Karlsson, Reilly Smith and Graves, Dumbass could have easily added quality veterans on short affordable contracts.

If it works out and they’re a playoff team, great. If it doesn’t work out and they’re a bottom feeder as they are now, you can flip them all at the deadline for picks and prospects. Especially if they’re on expiring contracts because you can retain most of the salary and get even more value in return.

So let’s think, what type of players are in demand at the deadline? Oh, I know - - reliable defensemen and proven forwards who have been there before. Now who could Dumbass have signed to fit that criteria?

Shattenkirk 1yr at $1.05M
Ekman Larsson at 1yr $2.25M
Matt Dumba 1yr at $3.9M
Beardy Goudas 3yr at $2.5M per
Kulikov 1yr at $1M
Tony DeAngelo 1yr at $1.675M

Bertuzzi 1yr at $5.5M
Tarasenko 1yr at $5M
Max Domi 1yr at $3M

Take your pick - - every single one of those guys could be flipped at the deadline for picks and/or prospects.

Now it’s impossible to move Karlsson at the deadline with that $10M boat anchor, and Graves is also difficult with another 5yrs at $4.5 per. Reilly Smith still has another year left at $5M which makes it tough to retain beyond this year.

Do any of the bolded guys move the needle for the Pens? At all? I get there are other ways to spend Karlsson's salary, but then you're also dealing with the anchors that were Granlund and Petry. IMO - Karlsson deal was giving the Pens' a puncher's chance. It didn't work out, but then the VAST, VAST majority of deals don't deliver the ultimate prize.

No because you're looking at this the wrong way. It wasn't like they had 10m cap space available in a vacuum that they could use on depth instead of EK.

They had to trade Petry, Granlund, and Rutta just to take on the EK contract, and the only reason SJ/Detroit took those players is because they had to in order to make the trade work.

There was no situation where Dubas could just trade Petry, Granlund, and Rutta for nothing and then address the depth with the magically available cap space he got for moving those guys out.

That's what I was trying to say - but you did it much better in the bolded section. The $'s "wasted" (in some peoples eyes) on Karlsson would instead have been going to Petry, Granlund and Ruuta and the Pens would be signficantly worse off IMO.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I get it, and if Ovi only cares about the record and not winning championships.
Let him fill his boots.

I don't know how that slander has persisted - coming almost entirely from Canada and Pittsburgh. Maybe being dishonest towards Ovechkin just feels normal among Canadians at this point.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

What are the chances that Crosby wants Sullivan there and the Penguins figure they owe it to him, Malkin, and Letang if they want to ride out into the sunset in Pitts? Those players have meant a lot to that franchise and it was always going to be rough when it came tumbling down